Irishrose, the notion that Jesus came to destroy all religious authority is a common misconception. Some people think that, well, Jesus criticized the scribes and pharisees, the scribes and pharisees had authority, so therefore Jesus was against religious authority. Wrong chain of thinking.

Jesus criticized the scribes and pharisees, not because they had authority, but because they were proud and stiff-necked, too proud and stiff-necked to recognize the Messiah when He came. So proud and stiff-necked that they were more interested in enforcing the minor points of the Levitical law than they were in preaching about, or observing, important things like humility, chastisy, and charity. There is one verse where Jesus tells the people that the pharisees, despite their bad example, still had to be obeyed.

Jesus founded the Catholic Church and gave it authority (see Matthew 16:19). He appointed Peter its first pope (Matthew 16:18) and the other apostles its first bishops. At the Last Supper He gave His apostles the power and authority to change bread and wine into His Own Body and Blood, making them the first Catholic priests. On the very day He arose from the dead He gave the apostles, His first priests, the power and authority to forgive sins (see John 20:22).

In Acts and in all of Paul's epistles it is clear that the Church was not a loose federation of believers but an organized body with Peter, tge first pope, being the one who called all meetings, presided over those meetings, and otherwise made decisions for tge Church.

Sounds like new age mumbo jumbo to me.

I remember when I first started reading about Catholicism, I thought to myself, how clear and concise it all is, how it all hangs together, how every doctrine supports several other doctrines. How different it is from just the Bible alone, which can be interpreted many different ways, I said to myself. And how different from eastern religions, with their consciousnesses and mantras that sound oh-so spiritual, but in actuality don't mean a damn thing.

Ludlow, do you actually believe God/Jesus would order man to kill people for these reasons?

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents (Proverbs 20:20 NAB, Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-18 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB, Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT, Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Kill Sons of Sinners (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Clarence2, would you please read...The Urantia Book, Paper 74, Adam and Eve...

http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-74-adam-and-eve

...and tell me why you conclude what is written sounds like the imagination of Sadler or any other human being?

Well, I ask questions like that because I really believe a "truthful" answer is NO it really doesn't sound like its the "imagination" of anyone including Sadler. If someone honestly thinks otherwise then I would like to hear their reasoning.

Well, I ask questions like that because I really believe a "truthful" answer is NO it really doesn't sound like its the "imagination" of anyone including Sadler. If someone honestly thinks otherwise then I would like to hear their reasoning.

My point is that Sadlerian Christianity with its eugenics and Adam and Eve as 8 foot tall space aliens would be equally, if not more, heretical to Pastor James L. Melton than the Catholic version, so why quote the guy so extensively? Is it like a the enemy of my enemy is my friend thing, similar to how you quote rational critical NT scholars when it suits your purposes?

The Catholic Church is an abomination, and if this Baptist guy can articulate that well and has studied it well from a biblical standpoint, why shouldn't I benefit from, and use his knowledge and expertise? That's why you look to scientists, and to Bart Ehrman and so on, isn't it, to benefit from and use their knowledge and expertise? You can't be an expert on everything, so you look to others and you use their information. I do the same.

This attack on the Lord Jesus Christ is being executed in many ways by many different groups. Various cult groups, New Age groups, and even modern Bible translators have their own methods of robbing Jesus Christ of His Deity. Many young men today enter Bible colleges and seminaries believing in the Deity of Christ, and then graduate four years later with less faith than when they enrolled!

Would you like me to post the 65kb of text of Ludlowisms that I have? After reading it, even you will have to admit that the Catholic Church is FUBAR if Ludlow is representing their positions correctly, and I think he is. He's totally brainwashed into it. He's a tool.

When, and if, Mr. Melton ever turns his critique on The Urantia Book, that will be the time to deal with that. Right now it's speculation. No sense in crying before one is hurt, as they say. And if Melton's critique, should it come, is just along the lines of "The Urantia Book is false because it's not what I already believe," then it can be dismissed. That's not a valid reason. All that is saying is, "I've been indoctrinated this particular way and so every other way must be wrong." On the other hand, maybe Melton would stand up and shout: "Wow, The Urantia Book, this is the truth I've always been looking for! Hallelujah!" It could happen.

The Catholic church is false because it claims infallibility. No mortal humans are infallible. You should be able to see that. Its claim of infallibility disqualifies it from being infallible. Within its own framework, it's false from a biblical sense because it has discarded several of the 10 commandments, it flagrantly disobeys God and calls its priests, "Father" when Jesus clearly says not to do that, it's rife with homosexuals and pedophiles. It's false because it prays to dead people and worships Mary. Catholicism is false for many reasons, none of which have anything to do with why or why not The Urantia Book might be false.

.My point is that Sadlerian Christianity with its eugenics and Adam and Eve as 8 foot tall space aliens would be equally, if not more, heretical to Pastor James L. Melton than the Catholic version, so why quote the guy so extensively? Is it like a the enemy of my enemy is my friend thing, similar to how you quote rational critical NT scholars when it suits your purposes?

I wouldn't use a source for which I have no respect to discredit a religion.

I'd rather use my own arguments backed by sources I do respect.

Here's a blog about Pastor James L. Melton. I've read a couple of those essays Melton writes, so I don't doubt there's some truth in the blogger's appraisal of him:

Encyclopedia of American Loons

http://americanloons.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/939-james-l-melton.html

The Catholic Church is an abomination, and if this Baptist guy can articulate that well and has studied it well from a biblical standpoint, why shouldn't I benefit from, and use his knowledge and expertise? That's why you look to scientists, and to Bart Ehrman and so on, isn't it, to benefit from and use their knowledge and expertise? You can't be an expert on everything, so you look to others and you use their information. I do the same.

How do you know Pastor James L. Melton is a reliable scholar with worthwhile knowledge and expertise? Is he distinguished enough to have a Wiki entry detailing his achievements? Have you checked what he says against other sources? You said somewhere on forum recently that you don't have time to read anything.

A member called Sunny posted an article by James L. Melton on a thread titled

Urantia - Masterpiece of Deception

https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-1118176-481.htm

A quote:



You see in the above where Melton talks about cult groups and "New Age" groups. That's your ilk and the UB, that is.

Would you like me to post the 65kb of text of Ludlowisms that I have? After reading it, even you will have to admit that the Catholic Church is FUBAR if Ludlow is representing their positions correctly, and I think he is. He's totally brainwashed into it. He's a tool.

I also find Lud's beliefs repulsive, but it's the beliefs you should criticize and not Lud himself with all that "You don't love Jesus" mawkish emotional blackmail sh*t.

Lud happens to be someone who's so thick skinned he never hits the block button, even when it's appropriate to do so, which it is in this case IMO.

When, and if, Mr. Melton ever turns his critique on The Urantia Book, that will be the time to deal with that. Right now it's speculation. No sense in crying before one is hurt, as they say. And if Melton's critique, should it come, is just along the lines of "The Urantia Book is false because it's not what I already believe," then it can be dismissed. That's not a valid reason. All that is saying is, "I've been indoctrinated this particular way and so every other way must be wrong." On the other hand, maybe Melton would stand up and shout: "Wow, The Urantia Book, this is the truth I've always been looking for! Hallelujah!" It could happen.

Read more of those articles I posted. Read the blog I linked. Melton is a conservative protestant fundamentalist from the nutbag end of the spectrum. I don't think he'd be amenable to the idea of God's "only begotten son" being one of 700,000 creator son units each charged with building and stocking their own private universe, but I suppose you could message him with some UB bumph and find out.