yet another, 'why can't a nice, kind guy like me get laid' thread.

Theres a difference between being nice and being a gentleman.

Oops. Ok, how about you draw that thin subatomic line where nice ends and jerk beins? Usually including my woman in decisions was a sign that she is relevant in my life. If I can't decide a movie, or what color to wear, so what. If I go buy a car I can't afford without your consent and you have a right to be included in that decision, that's not cool. Complimenting constantly after he's charmed his way into your arms is moot

And obviously if a guy takes you on adate, orders dinner for you, tells you when were leaving, despite if you're still hungry, and then ends the evening with "pucker up you owe me one." He's not getting a second date.... Right? He must be hot as F@@k if he does. and please don't take niceness as a form of insecurity, there are guys that treated women like crap, lost them, kick themselves for being stupid then pour it on, like "It's a wonderful life."

You are absolutely right. I should have stated that I was speaking for me and me only and I don't consider my self normal or average by any means. There is line between nice and jerks, and a very fine line between nice and the gentleman that you are describing and the guy above me. Jerks are rarely jerks on the first or second date. That comes out later after you've invested time which is what most of the outside world sees. What does leak from them in the beginning is the confidence that I seek. The gentleman you're describing would recognize if you were done eating or not, or that when he asked where you wanted to go and you said I don't care, that you meant it. Not that that scenario is easy because a lot of women these days don't make it that way(Ive been guilty of it myself). I guess the point that I was trying to make is that 'over eagerness to please' doesn't work for me (and me only). That I'd want my man to make choices for himself that make him happy regardless if I like it not because that's real. It's 50/50 and if hes too worried about me, if I'd like it or not, he would not be getting what he needs. When I quite fighting him, and answer his questions on everything, I feel like I'm taking advantage or that he would be better off with someone as passive as him. I don't call that insecurity because I've had a few of those and that is a whole other thread. That's who they are and it doesn't mix well with me.

You took the word "game" too literal. Allow me to explain....women dont like whiney, soft and men that foldd under pressure or bka nice guys. I have a ton on my plate, but worries about a woman aint on it. I have developed a keen eye for character and I dont waste a lot of time on game playing, manipulative women. I SAY WHAT i mean and stand firm. I listen to, support and show affection,amongst other things, to the girl im interested in and if it dont work, it dont.

It amazes me of the invasion of narcissism amongst "men". Yet you wonder why women pass you by.

And if you think youre gonna get all happy,positive and optimistic when someone youre interested in comes around...Not! That shit dont work. If shes anything like me she saw you coming.

Im gonna start charging you guys a fee for my services. Seriously

I like assertive gentleman....they have to be able to handle me

I enjoy a man that knows what he desires...because I do.....no games..and not narcissistic...dated one of those before.... never again ~

The reason these women are here,they arent here looking for a Man like you or I, they are here to make money one way or a nother. If they were here to find a Man they wouldnt be some 18 year old lezibin looking for other women or they wouldnt have in theyre profile seeking men 18 to 80 those are either scamers or a prostitute or some cam girl looking for a trick. I was chating with one who said she was from montgomery,texas and in feality she is from somewhere in europe. If a woman likes you she will let you know, but as life haves it they want you to chase them ya know play The rat race play The waiting game with you.they figure if you chase them enough then they know you really like them. But little do you know how many other guys they have on The side that they have plans to either use or have sex with if it werent for these stupid websites The best is useually in The supermarket at finding a good woman coz truthfuly i doubt you or i will ever find a true descent woman on The internet this is nothing more than a meeting place to make it easy for The real freaks of The world. My self i had a gay woman call me a pervert cause i prefer women between 18 and 30 im 50 Now think about this who is The real pervert a straight Man or a gay woman that says god made her The way she is, i said you choose to be The way you are just like The Man who choose to go Rob banks and kill people god didnt make him choose to be a freak of nature. You are The batter The umpire The cather The out fielder The coach The team capton of your life. And if The people dont see The good in your heart The honesty The respect and sencireity then they them self are useually shallow greedy selfish. I have nothing aganst black folk either but i had a girl say eew you are too old to date but she thought nothing about having sex with a black Man you see a woman will sleep with who ever she wants and that is The way it is they dont have to have feelings for you at all either they are just like a Man on The sex department they think of sex just like we do they look a men but they are like cats and we are like dogs you ever seen two cats mate no The woman will say she isnt that kind of woman and most will say they have never masterbated well good luck and watch out for The scammers and prostitutes coz thats what is on here mostly and gold diggers and users.