"The belt" in Martial Arts

7/5/2013 8:58:16 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.) Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
7/5/2013 2:25:04 PM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from dontcare121: You're telling me you studied Gracie Jiu Jitsu, however you called it Gracie BJJ? BJJ and GJJ are two different things. Yes, they came from the same place, but the Gracie's made it there own. Surely you know this. No, I have never studied JJ from B or Gracie... I was told that learning JJ in B is more stringent than it is here in the US. They went on to explain how most martial arts have been modified when taught in the US. Not just the 1 that I studied. Also, there are gyms in the US featuring GJJ that are not real affiliates of the family. SO, GJJ, taught in Brazil, is the purest form and there is little chance for students to obtain rapid advancement through the belt system.
7/5/2013 8:50:53 PM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
jhask184 Indianapolis, IN 24, joined Jul. 2011	Who dubbed the Gracie's the "Gods" of jujitsu the Gracie's practically give out black belts look at UFC fighter Chris weidman in a year he's advanced all the way to a brown belt where as in traditional bjj you have to be a blue belt at least a year and then a purple belt for two my coach won't even let you advance if you're going no gi which the Gracie's could care less and my coach has just as high credentials as most of the Gracie's
7/6/2013 2:29:22 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from jhask184: Who dubbed the Gracie's the "Gods" of jujitsu the Gracie's practically give out black belts look at UFC fighter Chris weidman in a year he's advanced all the way to a brown belt where as in traditional bjj you have to be a blue belt at least a year and then a purple belt for two my coach won't even let you advance if you're going no gi which the Gracie's could care less and my coach has just as high credentials as most of the Gracie's Ya, forget I mentioned Gracies particularly. Its just a name everyone knows. The point is: People that disregard the purpose of using belts as a ranking system..... They obviously have never been a student in a traditional school.
7/7/2013 11:28:26 PM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	CMOOON PEOPLE! Those of you who do not see the point of a belt.... Where you at now?
7/8/2013 2:58:26 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
dragonstar01 Kincolith, BC 42, joined Apr. 2013	Quote from usernamelast: CMOOON PEOPLE! Those of you who do not see the point of a belt.... Where you at now? it is not that i do not see a point in "the belt" as a marker for schooling so much as i do not see the point of it's relevence... as i have stated in the other thread... having or not having a belt to distinguish my personal expertise never stopped a bully from try'n what ever they could to beat me down or intimidate me... what did though was that i could take care of myself... self taught in western boxing... self taught in ju jitzu... i have friends that are 2 and 3 deg. black belt in tai kwon do... also have friends who have competed regionally and nationally in high school wrestling... i have sparred with them all... and some of them were the bullies of reference... having a high level of "expertise: the belt" gave them a false sense of pride... it made them way to sure and less humble... what it took was a lesson in humility... when they realized their "belt" really doesn't amount to much in an on impulse street fight... this changed their view of what it all really meant... remember my view does not come from a do jo but more from practical experience... in a street fight there are no rules of engagement, no time limit, no referee(shidoshi or sensei), and most of the time ... no warning... with time all of them admitted that to be bragadoshius of their "belt" only brought them the wrong kind of attention and more trouble than they wished for... i learned to fight inteligently out of nessessity... i am a smaller person, 5' 8" and 140 pd.s... i am also native american.... i had to deal with bullies do to racial tension and some hormone saturated teenagers(usually jocks: football player's, the wrestling team, and social mis-fits looking for attention...) as i have also stated in the other thread that i did not win all the fight's i had to go through... i won most of them, but even the ones i lost would not want to go there with me again... they got hurt... i don't compete... nor do i want to... there is a legend of reference to achilles sheild..."he fight's so that some day he won't have to..."... to me this what martial art's is at it's core... i have reached that point... and i did not need a belt to do it... and yes i have been attacked with a gun, knives, a base ball bat, etc... in none of these situations would a "belt " have saved me... i am not try'n to convince you that a rating system has no merit for u, just that it has no merit for me... humility is now my mark of expertise... i don't have to fight any more...
7/9/2013 1:42:06 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	Interesting.... What we have here is a forum full of individuals claiming they have such and such years training in martial arts like TKD, BJJ, and so on. I am trying to stress the point that if I claim I have a brown belt in Kenpo Karate, then I can perform/teach at a certain level. I represent a school and an instructor to which I credit my art to. I could simply say that I have been instructed in Kenpo since I was 11. Do the math on my age and I have spent my life practicing. Bottom line, I am only a brown belt. Now, in my school it takes a minimum of 8 years to earn a black belt. If I spend 8 years practicing traditional self defense techniques that have been perfected over thousands of years, I should think there is something to say for that. Furthermore, it does not mean that no one can kick my ass. It means I have studied and perfected a art and can perform it at a standard worthy of carrying the title: Kenpo Black Belt- At that time I can say that I KNOW Kenpo. If I were to say that I have 3 years of TKD experience with no belt.... That means I have never been tested to see if I perform the art correctly. I probably did not learn techniques in order. There may be several aspects I missed such as: origin of art, fight science and the smallest details which make the techniques possible..... THUS, my TKD is worthless, I do not KNOW the art. Beyond that- Martial Arts- in the common meaning of the term is not about sparring in a gym with someone. I know many black belts from several different arts. None of them are the types that jump in rings with self taught opponents from the street. People automatically try to associate a belt with who can kick who's a** and who is badder or better. Its those who completely do not get the point of the arts. My belt only holds meaning in my school amongst students and instructors. It has nothing to do with whether or not I will get beat up or stabbed.
7/9/2013 1:56:24 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
dragonstar01 Kincolith, BC 42, joined Apr. 2013	what you say is true... so please allow me to offer an apology if what i said was offensive... i have found that some will not teach any more for fear that what they teach will be used for maliscious purpose... there are those also who i would call mentor in the way they conduct themselves... though thoroughly knowledgeable about the various styles they practice, they are ultimately humble... i will only suggest that claiming a ranking will ultimately invite scrutiny which if you scan the other threads you will find repeatedly, this one included... it is only an opinion but i believe that a "belt" as an indicator should be confined to the student and the school, not to be proclaimed in a public forum... for me that should be sacred enough to held private... this is why i say that only the discipline and time in practice should be shared...
7/13/2013 10:39:17 PM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.)
7/13/2013 11:54:20 PM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
dragonstar01 Kincolith, BC 42, joined Apr. 2013	(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.)
7/30/2013 7:55:56 PM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
sclawman Spartanburg, SC 39, joined Jul. 2012	I study Filipino kali no belts. i have studied shotokan karate with a belt system. Just depends on the style the belt is just a symbol. have a blessed day
8/4/2013 3:33:40 PM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from sclawman: I study Filipino kali no belts. i have studied shotokan karate with a belt system. Just depends on the style the belt is just a symbol. have a blessed day Ya, there may be practices that do not use belts, I get that... I am not sure how they teach to the masses without them though. Care to reveal any info on the structure of lessons? I won't judge, I am just curious.
8/5/2013 7:28:17 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
sclawman Spartanburg, SC 39, joined Jul. 2012	Mainly inosanto kali has instructor levels. the instructor knows his students and teaches accordingly. the concept of rank belts is a new concept in martial arts history. the idea comming from judo and adopted by karate. Some akido schools just have two belts a white and black. To me it is more important of having the skill and knowledge than what belt is tied around my waist.- jason
8/5/2013 10:10:55 PM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	Gotcha, Can I assume that these schools without belt structures are independent, in that, they cannot engage in competition outside of their own gyms? Coupled with that, if there were group classes available, the instructor would have to know the experience level of every student, in order to pair students for sparring or what not, correct?.
8/21/2013 3:48:46 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
giokid76 Norwalk, CA 22, joined Jun. 2013	Okay ... I'm trying to catch up on the thread but there is just to much to read Lmao!
8/22/2013 8:00:39 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
sclawman Spartanburg, SC 39, joined Jul. 2012	Youtube dog brothers or kalli tudo see how we spar with no ranking system. we don't award trophies just knowledge. in a street fight you don't know the skill lvl of who you face. adapt to survive.
8/23/2013 3:42:03 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from sclawman: Youtube dog brothers or kalli tudo see how we spar with no ranking system. we don't award trophies just knowledge. in a street fight you don't know the skill lvl of who you face. adapt to survive. Interesting...
8/28/2013 7:37:01 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
thetastybud Myrtle Beach, SC 43, joined Aug. 2013	I round housed kicked a guy in a fight breaking jaw it was cool no belt applied lol
9/18/2013 10:34:31 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from ozzycrue: If gjj and bjj are different why is the ibjjf ran by carlos gracie jr. The son of gjj's creator? There is no difference . Some sport bjj schools just don't teach the self defense moves. Good question. I thought that Gracie learned JJ in Japan and brought it to Brazil, thus the beginning of BJJ. Anyone?
9/19/2013 12:33:06 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
dragonstar01 Kincolith, BC 42, joined Apr. 2013	Quote from ozzycrue: If gjj and bjj are different why is the ibjjf ran by carlos gracie jr. The son of gjj's creator? There is no difference . Some sport bjj schools just don't teach the self defense moves. the biggest difference between BJJ and GJJ is the subtle fact that BJJ is a more aggressive form... the application of strikes most noticably... GJJ is more of a design suited to self defense rather than attack... designed for use by smaller combatent vrs a larger opponent... it was not designed for competition and for the most part has not evolved to suite the MMA strategy... the BJJ you see in MMA on the other hand is a watered down version of the style at it's core... pure BJJ was not designed for modern MMA either but it still is more effective in the MMA forum than GJJ, mostly because the striking methods implimented are designed to damage just as much as the grappling aspect of the art... pure BJJ is designed to inflict as much damage first rather than avoidance and counter attack as it is with GJJ... all historical references aside... this is just an observation.. barbarian vrs a scholar..
9/21/2013 8:47:24 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
victor1p Terrebonne, OR 49, joined Sep. 2013	At Dragonstar01 & OzzyCrue the first UFC 1 in Denver Colorado with its ambassador for Brazilian Jujutsu was Royce Gracie. Watch the Consecutive ring side matches 4 to 5 Helio Gracie is a ringside. In one of the matches Royce brings Helio Gracie into the ring and declares him founder of Brazilian Jujutsu. So that is what it was introduced to the world as, from a Gracie. The fact that there are several chains now from Machado Jujutsu, to Helio's brother Carlson, Nephews (etc) is more due to politics. As for Op I have sstudied Classical Wing-Chun kuen since 1991 (The one system I am sashed in). Traditionally there is only a blacksash when gaining teacher's level. So yes belts became an evolved feature for the martial-arts. Any art with the term "do" at the end Karate "do", Ju"do"-
9/21/2013 8:54:23 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
victor1p Terrebonne, OR 49, joined Sep. 2013	[Cont] Is a system that has been altered to create a competitve friendly transmisson of techniques for transference between systems and students. Do you really think that in a feudal time era Okinawa "Te" was taught to the masses & utilize a belt system? No. Even the originator of the system you are taking "Kenpo" by Dr.William Chow had a single white to black belt policy. It is later in the many families of "Kenpo" that skill differentiate by colored belt, including the Ed Parker system and many others.
9/21/2013 9:10:11 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
victor1p Terrebonne, OR 49, joined Sep. 2013	Ps- I apologize about the laughing icon as I do not know what symbols I used in conjunction to create it.
9/22/2013 2:39:40 AM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
dragonstar01 Kincolith, BC 42, joined Apr. 2013	Quote from victor1p: At Dragonstar01 & OzzyCrue the first UFC 1 in Denver Colorado with its ambassador for Brazilian Jujutsu was Royce Gracie. Watch the Consecutive ring side matches 4 to 5 Helio Gracie is a ringside. In one of the matches Royce brings Helio Gracie into the ring and declares him founder of Brazilian Jujutsu. So that is what it was introduced to the world as, from a Gracie. The fact that there are several chains now from Machado Jujutsu, to Helio's brother Carlson, Nephews (etc) is more due to politics. As for Op I have sstudied Classical Wing-Chun kuen since 1991 (The one system I am sashed in). Traditionally there is only a blacksash when gaining teacher's level. So yes belts became an evolved feature for the martial-arts. Any art with the term "do" at the end Karate "do", Ju"do"- agreed on the political part but also emphasize the methodology and the phylosophical part... they are different from school to school and teacher to teacher... the only gracie i recall seeing totally stepping away from the gracie philosophy altogether was relf gracie... his attack included way more striking influences than his cousins... the gracie clan take a lot of pride in being able to subdue their opposition with out delivering to much damage to themselves or their opponents... BJJ practitioner's in general disregard this philosophy as a weakness...
9/23/2013 11:31:51 PM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from dragonstar01: agreed on the political part but also emphasize the methodology and the phylosophical part... they are different from school to school and teacher to teacher... the only gracie i recall seeing totally stepping away from the gracie philosophy altogether was relf gracie... his attack included way more striking influences than his cousins... the gracie clan take a lot of pride in being able to subdue their opposition with out delivering to much damage to themselves or their opponents... BJJ practitioner's in general disregard this philosophy as a weakness... That's a good point... Many people receive black belts and pursue their own teachings. Its very safe to assume that they make their own alterations to the study. Which may be a good thing because they may know by experience that a alternative method is better their way.
9/23/2013 11:45:31 PM	"The belt" in Martial Arts
usernamelast San Rafael, CA 40, joined Jan. 2013	Quote from victor1p: [Cont] Is a system that has been altered to create a competitve friendly transmisson of techniques for transference between systems and students. Do you really think that in a feudal time era Okinawa "Te" was taught to the masses & utilize a belt system? No. Even the originator of the system you are taking "Kenpo" by Dr.William Chow had a single white to black belt policy. It is later in the many families of "Kenpo" that skill differentiate by colored belt, including the Ed Parker system and many others. Ya, that's a good point that they haven't always had a belt system... I do not wish to get into that though. My aim is to find out how someone spends 5 years in a traditional art and have nothing to show for it. They say they have 5 years of BJJ. Shit, you can earn a black belt in 4 years from Cezar... Who would train someone that long and never assess their percentage to completion? It would have to end sometime right? IF someone earned the belt they can say that they have it.... years do not matter at that point.

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