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Exactly how can mostschizophrenics not be religious ..... yet "commonly" have religious delusions? That doesn't make sense ..... you are just twisting things to conform with your opinion.

I would think that to be considered "commonly" ..... something should exist at least 50% of the time.

Peace

8/28/2015 12:44:18 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

followjesusonly
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,946)
Kingman, AZ
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Quote from thrilled1981:
olderthandirt20 f**k you piece of poo. You don't know what video means. So you don't have a f**king family, ya bloody b*tch slapper. Go to HELL AND BUURRRNN!!!!!!!!!!!


Ah, another "conservative Christian. Marvelous.

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8/29/2015 3:22:55 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,520)
Saint Petersburg, FL
68, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from Yasureoktoo:
Yeah, but the romans did it with style.

They fed them to the lions.



How horrible!

I didn't realize the Romans were guilty of poisoning lions.

Peace

9/1/2015 12:27:33 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

smthgabouther
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,095)
Baltimore, MD
35, joined Dec. 2012


Because deep down they know Christianity is bs. Thats why its being overtaken so effortlessly by Islam.

9/1/2015 12:39:11 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

neoone72
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,498)
Raleigh, NC
43, joined Aug. 2014


All religions are fairy tales. All religions are declining and will eventually just be a foot note as we move into a type one civilization. Religions are scared because there waking up to reality.

9/1/2015 2:19:10 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

followjesusonly
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Kingman, AZ
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Quote from neoone72:
All religions are fairy tales. All religions are declining and will eventually just be a foot note as we move into a type one civilization. Religions are scared because there waking up to reality.


What is a "type one" civilization?

9/1/2015 12:00:27 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

neoone72
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,498)
Raleigh, NC
43, joined Aug. 2014


Type one is described pretty good by Michio Kaku on YouTube..
Check out the kardashev scale and the permi paradox.

9/2/2015 7:38:31 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,288)
Middelfart
Denmark
47, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from neoone72:
All religions are fairy tales. All religions are declining and will eventually just be a foot note as we move into a type one civilization. Religions are scared because there waking up to reality.


They are fairy tales.


Mental illness is a major pillar for religious delusions with teachings that mentally deteriorates cognitive functions with magical thinking, superstitions, and a deranged morality which denigrates self esteem. The teachings of Jesus for example requires hatred of family and of self which self loathing Christians fully embrace.

The evil begins as soon as a child is born. The foundation of Christianity is every child is born defective and guilty. You're a wrenched individual the day you are born. You're then told to hate yourself to follow Jesus. You're made infantile because only a dead man can save your soul. Christianity at it's very core is filth.

9/2/2015 10:26:28 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

flyfish77
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,069)
Conyers, GA
51, joined Jul. 2014


nothing needed jesus pait it all, only to believe in him,and act like it, he paid the price for sin,that we cant pay..the word is grace,,instant forgiveness,but who wants to keep on doin wrong but we all do,especially the women ,some of them,an grow into haters,love,,never fails. no fear ever,of anything,or anybody.and atheists,and all of us ,will reap what we sow,i,ll reap eternal life cause i know jesus paid the sin price for me,by shedding of blood,that had to be done,an it was fre,im far from perfect,but am changed,,born again,i know he,s alive,an his grace is more than sufficient.

9/2/2015 10:28:27 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

flyfish77
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,069)
Conyers, GA
51, joined Jul. 2014


nope,,christianity,from the bible,,gods word......is spiritually discerned,if your not saved,,born again,,you cant discern but one thing,,you need to accept jesus payment for sin for your self,after that all things are spiritually discerned.

9/2/2015 10:33:26 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

flyfish77
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,069)
Conyers, GA
51, joined Jul. 2014


the christians,also maybe like stephen when they thought they stoned him,probably never felt a thing,i know stephen didnt,he seen jesus just before he died,stoned to death,his last breath here,was his first breath there in heaven..win win,situation, he felt no hurt or pain,maybe huge electrical pleasure from gods power........pure love,an light.

9/2/2015 11:19:22 AM Why are christians so scared ?  
Yasureoktoo
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (22,106)
Seattle, WA
61, joined Dec. 2014


I suggest you "run', not walk, to your nearest shrink.

9/3/2015 11:23:01 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,288)
Middelfart
Denmark
47, joined Dec. 2011


Looks like flyfish has been eating infected worms.

9/3/2015 2:29:51 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

followjesusonly
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,946)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from flyfish77:
nope,,christianity,from the bible,,gods word......is spiritually discerned,if your not saved,,born again,,you cant discern but one thing,,you need to accept jesus payment for sin for your self,after that all things are spiritually discerned.


Not according to Jesus:

"...Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? [Jesus] said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And [Jesus] said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. (Luke 10:25-28)

"Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

"For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." (Matthew 12:50)

Just think about how much better the world would be if you preached the gospel that Jesus preached instead of the gospel of mere men who came later.

Look, Jesus actually preached "the gospel" to tens of thousands of people. What was He telling them? That's what you should be preaching, not what you are preaching.

"And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people." (Matthew 9:35)

"And it came to pass... that Jesus went throughout every city and village, preaching and showing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him..." (Luke 8:1) (Also see Matthew 4:23, Mark 1:14, and Luke 4:43.)

9/4/2015 10:30:00 PM Why are christians so scared ?  
mighty_evil
Myrtle Beach, SC
43, joined May. 2014


[Quote from ludlowlowell]:
It is a well known fact that the Communists in Russia, China, Korea, Vietnam, and Cambodia killed millions and millions of Christians.

.
.
.
Shows that even commies can do some good for the world

9/5/2015 9:33:41 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,288)
Middelfart
Denmark
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Wasn't Jesus a communist? He said sell everything you own.

9/5/2015 9:44:15 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,520)
Saint Petersburg, FL
68, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Looks like flyfish has been eating infected worms.


He has also swallowed a s___load of christian lies.

Peace

9/5/2015 11:03:24 AM Why are christians so scared ?  
mighty_evil
Myrtle Beach, SC
43, joined May. 2014


This is a very easy question to answer.
christians are scared cuz theyre dumb as rocks!

9/5/2015 12:30:05 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

neoone72
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,498)
Raleigh, NC
43, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Wasn't Jesus a communist? He said sell everything you own.



Jesus though the end was coming..
I can't trust anything about the Bible.
When I found out the truth it pissed me off. The end of religion is coming.. Science scares them cause they know it's all fake.
I see know and I'm free..
People who believe in fairy tells,are stupid.. Lol

9/5/2015 3:21:13 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,665)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from olderthandirt20:
If christianity is so well founded and protected by god then why are christians so threatened by atheism and agnosticism?

Demographics of atheism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Part of a series on
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Studies on the demographics of atheism have concluded that self-identified atheists comprise anywhere from 2% to 8% of the world's population, whereas irreligious individuals represent a further 10% to 20%.[1][2][3] Several comprehensive global polls on the subject have been conducted by Gallup International: their 2012 poll found that 13% of respondents were "convinced atheists" and their 2015 poll indicated that 11% were "convinced atheists".


So roughly only 20% of the population are professed atheists or agnostics. What makes them so dangerous to the majority? Why are christians so scared of atheism?

What is your opinion ??


This sort of fear can be directly related to racism . It can actually be related to a lot of things , but racism just happens to be the focus of modern society . Its the topic everyone raises their swords to , at the present moment .

It reaches to the core the instinctive nature that makes all people , the beast they ardently claim not to be . We have a mind to conquer , and prevail , because its how everything survives . We can use the mind for more , but if its of no benefit to our own individual interests , we probably wont .

There are many , who can see through the smoke , there are many more , that build a foundation on something that isn't there .

9/5/2015 4:55:12 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,665)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


We've been tailor made by nature to be animals , all we have to do is admit it . If we want to be more , we need to be less .

9/6/2015 8:22:54 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

fixingme
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,337)
New Iberia, LA
61, joined Aug. 2010


Quote from olderthandirt20:
If christianity is so well founded and protected by god then why are christians so threatened by atheism and agnosticism?


So roughly only 20% of the population are professed atheists or agnostics. What makes them so dangerous to the majority? Why are christians so scared of atheism?

What is your opinion ??



Christians are not afraid of anything you listed. You are apparently confused as to who Christians are.

9/6/2015 12:49:50 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,520)
Saint Petersburg, FL
68, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from fixingme:
Christians are not afraid of anything you listed. You are apparently confused as to who Christians are.



Bullshit!

You have to be afraid of reality in general to choose christianity and its sick dogma.

Peace

9/6/2015 3:57:16 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,665)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Quote from fixingme:
Christians are not afraid of anything you listed. You are apparently confused as to who Christians are.


All systems of belief offer a comfort zone , an area where people can find love , comfort , and protection . There is nothing wrong with this . Its convincing people that they cannot find these things , outside of their realm , that make their practices morally corrupt .



[Edited 9/6/2015 3:57:53 PM ]

9/6/2015 7:09:40 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

fixingme
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,337)
New Iberia, LA
61, joined Aug. 2010


Quote from nonstandard:
All systems of belief offer a comfort zone , an area where people can find love , comfort , and protection . There is nothing wrong with this . Its convincing people that they cannot find these things , outside of their realm , that make their practices morally corrupt .


Christianity does not teach that you cannot find these things. The morally corrupt are not Christians, tho they may use the name.

On the news they talk about people overseas being Christians when they are not Christians.

A Christian is just a saved person trying to be like Christ. Christians do not force anything on anyone. They are supposed to be an example. They way they live. Too many talk the talk but do not walk the walk. ouch

9/10/2015 9:21:49 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,288)
Middelfart
Denmark
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Quote from fixingme:
...
A Christian is just a saved person trying to be like Christ. Christians do not force anything on anyone. They are supposed to be an example. They way they live. Too many talk the talk but do not walk the walk. ouch


You suffer from


You avoiding facts about the Inquisitions, pogroms, missionaries and genocides done by Christianity.

9/10/2015 6:49:14 PM Why are christians so scared ?  
juliusdaniels
Bedford, OH
38, joined Jul. 2013


No we aren't afraid. Uortunately truth, everyone that says they're Christians aren't Christians. Nonetheless, those like myself never are threatened by anyone's disbeliefs, because for starts our lives are to be committed to share The Good News with those that are not aware, not to force upon another nor to argue with those that are ignorant of his grace.

As far as I know we are not here to defend the word of God, The Word of God the defend itself. According to the Bible we are to defend the faith and proclaim the word of God. As we become Seasoned Christians the word of God abides in us and ought to reflect in our actions and words.

Therefore, in the proclamation of our Lord Jesus Christ we are to witness to unbelievers his majesty's plan for salvation in spite of our adversaries attacks and those that we encounter that reject the gospel. True Christians spare the argument by dusting off their heels in knowing that they have done all that they are able. Because another unfortunate truth, everybody's not going to heaven.

9/10/2015 8:07:33 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,288)
Middelfart
Denmark
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Quote from juliusdaniels:
No we aren't afraid. Uortunately truth, everyone that says they're Christians aren't Christians.
Poor reasoning which is Christian usual.

Nonetheless, those like myself never are threatened by anyone's disbeliefs, because for starts our lives are to be committed to share The Good News with those that are not aware, not to force upon another nor to argue with those that are ignorant of his grace.
Your grace is ignorance. Without evidence you can only have ignorance. Your beliefs are superstitions.


As far as I know we are not here to defend the word of God, The Word of God the defend itself.
Which is an utter failure. There is nothing to defend when evidence doesn't exist.


According to the Bible we are to defend the faith and proclaim the word of God. As we become Seasoned Christians the word of God abides in us and ought to reflect in our actions and words.
And they do in the form of glossolalia gibberish. Religious babble is entertaining.

Therefore, in the proclamation of our Lord Jesus Christ we are to witness to unbelievers his majesty's plan for salvation in spite of our adversaries attacks and those that we encounter that reject the gospel.
What did you witness? Was it a voice or a vision? Hallucinations are symptomatic of a mental disorder.

True Christians spare the argument by dusting off their heels in knowing that they have done all that they are able. Because another unfortunate truth, everybody's not going to heaven.
A true christian is one who believes they're Christian. No other reason. Your ignorance of logic shows us you have no clue what the No True Scotsman fallacy is.

9/10/2015 10:01:29 PM Why are christians so scared ?  
juliusdaniels
Bedford, OH
38, joined Jul. 2013


Case and point:
The bible has a lot to say with the way we are supposed to walk; not a physical walk, but a spiritual walk. Or the way we behave ourselves as Christians. In other words, our behavioral attributes.

"He that says he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked",
this is not reasoning-it is truth. This is one way you identify a Christian vs someone who says they are but doesn't bare fruit. Me from them, them from you. Which I promise I'm saying in a non-treating way.

"Grace being ignorance" just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Grace is: favor shown in granting a delay or immunity. Superstition is an irrational fear of what is unknown or mysterious. God is mysterious indeed but he is definitely not unknown to me he makes himself very much evident in my everyday life. And I personally entertain not the concept of superstition.

It sounds like you are angry at something or you perhaps like to argue over petty things or perhaps you are just ignorant to the truth. I'm trying to be as tactful and non-treating as I can when I say this, But you are asking questions that have been answered in my initial post. So I have to say, whatever it was that hurt you or whatever it was that you may have seen that caused this bitterness in your heart. Let it go!!! It will only bring death. If you need an ear to get some things off your chest his me up.

Lastly, whoever told you that a true Christian is one who believes they are a Christian has utterly lied to you. Which brings me full circle to my initial post. Everyone who says they are Christian aren't Christian. There is always evidence of ones true nature and what he or she has in their heart.

http://www.gotquestions.org/true-Christian.html

9/10/2015 10:14:18 PM Why are christians so scared ?  
juliusdaniels
Bedford, OH
38, joined Jul. 2013


Quote from neoone72:
Jesus though the end was coming..
I can't trust anything about the Bible.
When I found out the truth it pissed me off. The end of religion is coming.. Science scares them cause they know it's all fake.
I see know and I'm free..
People who believe in fairy tells,are stupid.. Lol


You are partially right. The end of religion is coming. Fortunately for Christianity in general isn't a religion, It is a lifestyle. Which will soon separate the true believers form those that say they are but show no evidence.

Furthermore, I enjoy science very much. Who do you think set the big bang into motion. The nature of science is a beautiful gift.
"Great are the works of the Lord, studied by all who delight in them".

The nature of God will not fall into your lap. I challenge you to ask him to reveal himself to you. You'd be surprised at what you see.

9/11/2015 6:41:12 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,288)
Middelfart
Denmark
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It's not of matter of christians being scared but being incredibly stupid.





Neuroscience and psychiatry has found that religious delusions are more difficult to treat and make patients more sick than all other kinds of delusions.

Religious beliefs are cognitively no different than psychotic thinking. Religious beliefs are unfounded on any facts. None are ever given. Christians are incoherent, irrational, and superstitious.



9/11/2015 7:09:04 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,288)
Middelfart
Denmark
47, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from juliusdaniels:
.......

The nature of God will not fall into your lap. I challenge you to ask him to reveal himself to you. You'd be surprised at what you see.


Having visual hallucinations is a worse mental disorder than auditory hallucinations that are much more common. The role of psychosis in religious history is established. Common underpinnings are found in schizophrenia. The more mild form but religious supporting schizotypal disorder is where individuals have traits of schizophrenia but more functional. Religious people engage in meta-magical thinking, are superstitious and irrational.

Other mental disorders stem from abnormalities in the parietal and especially temporal lobes account for hyper-religiosity.

9/11/2015 8:00:36 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,520)
Saint Petersburg, FL
68, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
It's not of matter of christians being scared but being incredibly stupid.




Peace

9/11/2015 9:09:27 AM Why are christians so scared ?  
juliusdaniels
Bedford, OH
38, joined Jul. 2013


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Having visual hallucinations is a worse mental disorder than auditory hallucinations that are much more common. The role of psychosis in religious history is established. Common underpinnings are found in schizophrenia. The more mild form but religious supporting schizotypal disorder is where individuals have traits of schizophrenia but more functional. Religious people engage in meta-magical thinking, are superstitious and irrational.

Other mental disorders stem from abnormalities in the parietal and especially temporal lobes account for hyper-religiosity.


I won't even dignify this with a response.

9/11/2015 9:14:49 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,665)
York, PA
53, joined Jun. 2009


Every primitive culture creates stories to explain the natural world , and the origins of humanity . As new evidence , and discoveries develop , these stories begin to fall apart . They used to kill , and torture people , to protect their stories .

Now they just deny everything , so they can maintain the same primitive understanding that they had 2,000 yrs ago .

They're afraid that people might learn that life was very gradual natural process , and not a super being waving his hands .

9/11/2015 9:36:53 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,288)
Middelfart
Denmark
47, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from juliusdaniels:
I won't even dignify this with a response.


Loss of words is not unexpected given your addiction to superstition and magical thinking. The basis of religious beliefs does INCLUDE cognitive distortions, faulty reason, illogical and irrational thinking. How can you respond to insurmountable results from neuroscience, psychiatry and psychology without a sound basis for your superstitions?

People have delusions, paranoia and obsessions which for a good part of history was a survival adaptation for primitive minded people in primitive conditions. This is where myths come from as yours did.

9/11/2015 12:20:04 PM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
Over 1,000 Posts (1,554)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
58, joined May. 2011


.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Neuroscience and psychiatry has found that religious delusions are more difficult to treat and make patients more sick than all other kinds of delusions.

Religious beliefs are cognitively no different than psychotic thinking.

You repeat these claims often but have never provided any support, apart from dodgy quote mines, such as that Joseph Polimeni one where he misrepresents Pascal Boyer's work. Show us something from leading theorists in psychology of religion such as Boyer, Stephen Pinker or Scott Atran stating that religion is indistinguishable from psychotic thinking and makes people mentally ill.

Christians are incoherent, irrational, and superstitious.

Humans are only semi-rational creatures anyway, and most Christians and religious people in general think rationally and coherently enough to live to reproductive ages and pass on their genes, which is as rational and coherent as anyone needs to be under the baleful eye of evolution by natural selection. And belonging to social groups that share particular religious beliefs probably helps people to find mates, so could represent a reproductive advantage — especially if the religion advocates unrestricted fecundity.

Stephen Pinker on the psychology of religion. At 03:45 he discusses how religionists associate the counter-intuitive aspects of their beliefs with a special realm of cause and effect separated from everyday life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JILvK_fLTuY

9/11/2015 1:06:45 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,288)
Middelfart
Denmark
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Quote from clarence2:
.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Neuroscience and psychiatry has found that religious delusions are more difficult to treat and make patients more sick than all other kinds of delusions.

Religious beliefs are cognitively no different than psychotic thinking.

You repeat these claims often but have never provided any support, apart from dodgy quote mines, such as that Joseph Polimeni one where he misrepresents Pascal Boyer's work. Show us something from leading theorists in psychology of religion such as Boyer, Stephen Pinker or Scott Atran stating that religion is indistinguishable from psychotic thinking and makes people mentally ill.


Your mishmash and non-sequitur response avoids actually addressing the post you quoted meaning your response is either a red herring or lack of knowledge of the topic.

Religious delusions being worse and making patients more sick than other kinds of delusions is already established psychiatric fact.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11990010
It is concluded that religious delusions are commonly found in schizophrenia and that by comparison with other patients who have schizophrenia, those patients with religious delusions appear to be more severely ill.


Temporolimbic disturbances such as temporal lobe epilepsy are a major source for religious delusions is also an established fact.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2768382/
When a separation between post-ictal and interictal periods has been attempted (see Table 1.), patients with chronic interictal psychosis have showed to have more first-rank Schneiderian symptoms and auditory hallucinations of voices commenting on their behavior than patients with post-ictal psychosis, while the latter have more grandiose and religious delusions, often with elevated mood and feelings of mystic fusion with the universe (Kanemoto, et al., 1996). Although this study needs replication, it confirms a previous one (Oyebode, Davison, 1989) on the presence of first-rank symptoms in SLPE and both studies appear to speak against a separate diagnostic entity for SLPE.

Neuroscientist VS Ramachandran famously explains TLE the best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDrVZfvDbM

While some aspects of religiosity may simply be product of superstition and ignorance to explain the workings of the world it isn't the complete picture. The more profound beliefs come from mental conditions and experiences that religious people consider as evidence for the faith. These will include a wide range of physiological, psychological and neurological conditions already established.





[Edited 9/11/2015 1:07:41 PM ]

9/11/2015 1:32:25 PM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
Over 1,000 Posts (1,554)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
58, joined May. 2011


.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:

Religious delusions being worse and making patients more sick than other kinds of delusions is already established psychiatric fact.

Your article doesn't state that religious delusions make people sicker than the non-religious kind, like you typically do.

It says:

CONCLUSION:
It is concluded that religious delusions are commonly found in schizophrenia and that by comparison with other patients who have schizophrenia, those patients with religious delusions appear to be more severely ill. This warrants further investigation.

Correlation is not causation. It could be that sicker schizophrenics are attracted to religious subject matter due to the potentially frightening counter-intuitive content, such as beliefs in the literal existence of evil spirits and devils. Your article says more about schizophrenia than it does religion.



[Edited 9/11/2015 1:33:16 PM ]

9/11/2015 1:35:04 PM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
Over 1,000 Posts (1,554)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
58, joined May. 2011


.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Temporolimbic disturbances such as temporal lobe epilepsy are a major source for religious delusions is also an established fact.

None of this is relevant because most religious people aren't schizophrenics and don't have temporal lobe epilepsy.

9/11/2015 1:42:00 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,288)
Middelfart
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Quote from clarence2:
.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Temporolimbic disturbances such as temporal lobe epilepsy are a major source for religious delusions is also an established fact.

None of this is relevant because most religious people aren't schizophrenics and don't have temporal lobe epilepsy.


They don't have to be to believe in utterances by mentally ill people. They just have to be stupid.

9/11/2015 1:43:17 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

followjesusonly
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,946)
Kingman, AZ
73, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from juliusdaniels:
I won't even dignify this with a response.


Just block iyamwutiyam. He's not supposed to be here in this Forum according to the rules. He's a troll.

9/11/2015 1:44:52 PM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
Over 1,000 Posts (1,554)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
58, joined May. 2011


.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:
They don't have to be to believe in utterances by mentally ill people. They just have to be stupid.

Calling religious people "stupid" is just irrelevant and vacuous trollspeak analogous to those trolls on CE&P who us the term "libtards" all the time.

9/11/2015 1:52:50 PM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
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Quote from clarence2:
.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:

Religious delusions being worse and making patients more sick than other kinds of delusions is already established psychiatric fact.

Your article doesn't state that religious delusions make people sicker than the non-religious kind, like you typically do.

It says:

CONCLUSION:
It is concluded that religious delusions are commonly found in schizophrenia and that by comparison with other patients who have schizophrenia, those patients with religious delusions appear to be more severely ill. This warrants further investigation.

Correlation is not causation. It could be that sicker schizophrenics are attracted to religious subject matter due to the potentially frightening counter-intuitive content, such as beliefs in the literal existence of evil spirits and devils. Your article says more about schizophrenia than it does religion.
The study, not article is specifically about what it says in the title: Religious delusions in patients admitted to hospital with schizophrenia.

To say you the "article" is more about schizophrenia than religion then 1) can you explain the title of the study? 2) You had access to the pubmed study, not just the abstract. Is that true?

Its indisputable that the findings indicate those with religions delusions make patients more sick than other kinds of delusions.

If it's the case sick people gravitate towards religion then that is something I cannot disagree with.

If it's religion causing people to become more sick is easy to understand that when you consider patients coming from a religious environment where many are reinforcing each others religious delusions. In other words, the patient gets treated, goes home and gets sick again. The end result is that those with religious delusions are more sick than those with other kinds of delusions. Hmmmm.

Whichever the case, the end result is a sick individual.



[Edited 9/11/2015 1:54:26 PM ]

9/11/2015 2:04:31 PM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
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Quote from iyamwutiyam:
The study, not article is specifically about what it says in the title: Religious delusions in patients admitted to hospital with schizophrenia.

To say you the "article" is more about schizophrenia than religion then 1) can you explain the title of the study? 2) You had access to the pubmed study, not just the abstract. Is that true?

Nope. You didn't post the whole study. Just an abstract. I should have used the words "study abstract" instead of "article". I doubt that you've read the whole thing. I accessed part of the study here though and had a browse.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s001270200005#page-1

To quote a short sound bite, the study states:

To summarize, religious beliefs are fairly common and not pathological.


9/12/2015 3:33:15 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

sail_dancer
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Quote from clarence2:
To quote a short sound bite, the study states:

To summarize, religious beliefs are fairly common and not pathological.


Come on Clarence ..... This is exactly what it said:

Conclusion It is concluded that religious delusions are commonly found in schizophrenia and that by comparison with other patients who have schizophrenia, those patients with religious delusions appear to be more severely ill. This warrants further investigation.


Why did you fail to quote exactly what the study found?

Why hide the findings?

Peace

9/12/2015 3:41:28 AM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
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Quote from sail_dancer:
Why did you fail to quote exactly what the study found?

Why hide the findings?

Peace

I haven't read the whole study. Yam linked only an abstract. If the authors consider schizophrenics with religious themed delusions to be "more severely ill", then the question is why are they more ill? The abstract doesn't answer this question. It says only that:

CONCLUSION:

It is concluded that religious delusions are commonly found in schizophrenia and that by comparison with other patients who have schizophrenia, those patients with religious delusions appear to be more severely ill. This warrants further investigation.




[Edited 9/12/2015 3:42:50 AM ]

9/12/2015 3:58:26 AM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
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Quote from iyamwutiyam:

Neuroscientist VS Ramachandran famously explains TLE the best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDrVZfvDbM

While some aspects of religiosity may simply be product of superstition and ignorance to explain the workings of the world it isn't the complete picture. The more profound beliefs come from mental conditions and experiences that religious people consider as evidence for the faith. These will include a wide range of physiological, psychological and neurological conditions already established.


VS Ramachandran doesn't support the view that "religiosity may simply be the product of superstition and ignorance", and in fact no serious scientists studying brain science or psychology of religion use that sort of crude pejorative language. Ramachandran posits a tentative hypothesis of an evolutionary origin for the temporal lobe's involvement with religious experience. I notice he also says that the "encounter with God" hypothesis for these mental events cannot be discounted by science, and that most schizophrenics are not religious.

A Wiki entry here emphasizes the tentative nature of Ramachandran's hypothesis.

Neural basis of religious experience

In a 1997 Society for Neuroscience talk, Ramachandran hypothesized that there may be a neural basis for some religious experiences. He stated that "There may be dedicated neural machinery in the temporal lobes concerned with religion. This may have evolved to impose order and stability on society."[51] Ramachandran described an experiment in which he measured the galvanic skin responses of two subjects who had experienced temporal lobe seizures. Ramachandran measured the subjects' responses to a mixture of religious, sexual and neutral words and images and found that religious words and images elicited an unusually high response.[52] Ramachandran has also discussed his ideas about the neural basis of religion in a number of talks and in Phantoms In The Brain.[53] He cautions that his ideas are tentative, and so far he has not published any research on this subject.[54][55]




[Edited 9/12/2015 4:01:24 AM ]

9/12/2015 4:03:47 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

Stillherehaha
AnchorenaQueensland
Australia
69, joined Jun. 2015


Quote from clarence2:
.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:

Neuroscientist VS Ramachandran famously explains TLE the best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDrVZfvDbM

While some aspects of religiosity may simply be product of superstition and ignorance to explain the workings of the world it isn't the complete picture. The more profound beliefs come from mental conditions and experiences that religious people consider as evidence for the faith. These will include a wide range of physiological, psychological and neurological conditions already established.


VS Ramachandran doesn't support the view that "religiosity may simply be the product of superstition and ignorance", and in fact no serious scientists of brain science or psychology of religion use that sort of crude pejorative language. Ramachandran posits a tentative hypothesis of an evolutionary origin for the temporal lobe's involvement with religious experience. I notice he also says that the "encounter with God" hypothesis for these mental events cannot be discounted by science, and that most schizophrenics are not religious.

A Wiki entry here emphasizes the tentative nature of Ramachandran's hypothesis.

Neural basis of religious experience

In a 1997 Society for Neuroscience talk, Ramachandran hypothesized that there may be a neural basis for some religious experiences. He stated that "There may be dedicated neural machinery in the temporal lobes concerned with religion. This may have evolved to impose order and stability on society."[51] Ramachandran described an experiment in which he measured the galvanic skin responses of two subjects who had experienced temporal lobe seizures. Ramachandran measured the subjects' responses to a mixture of religious, sexual and neutral words and images and found that religious words and images elicited an unusually high response.[52] Ramachandran has also discussed his ideas about the neural basis of religion in a number of talks and in Phantoms In The Brain.[53] He cautions that his ideas are tentative, and so far he has not published any research on this subject.[54][55]




Excuse me is human love only chemical?

Is this Love-chemical for reproduction

So some higher intellect can use us in some way---
Also making us feel worthless so some suicide?

What do the powers that be get out of that?
Some kind of energy like food?

9/12/2015 4:23:40 AM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
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Quote from Stillherehaha:
Excuse me is human love only chemical?

Is this Love-chemical for reproduction

Yes, human emotions like love, which may involve romantic attraction or the instinct to nurture young or to bond with social companions evolved because they are reproductively advantageous. Luckily, this doesn't make the experience of these emotions any less meaningful or valid to the person experiencing them.

So some higher intellect can use us in some way---
Also making us feel worthless so some suicide?

What do the powers that be get out of that?
Some kind of energy like food?

You mean like a higher intellect orchestrates these strong emotions so as to vampirically feed on them? Reminds me of Dr McCoy's body morphing apparent ex GF in an old episode of Star Trek..


     

9/12/2015 6:03:09 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

sail_dancer
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Quote from clarence2:
I notice he also says that the "encounter with God" hypothesis for these mental events cannot be discounted by science, and that most schizophrenics are not religious.


Quote from clarence2:
CONCLUSION:

It is concluded that religious delusions are commonly found in schizophrenia and that by comparison with other patients who have schizophrenia, those patients with religious delusions appear to be more severely ill. This warrants further investigation.
9/12/2015 6:33:09 AM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
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Quote from sail_dancer:
Exactly how can most schizophrenics not be religious ..... yet "commonly" have religious delusions? That doesn't make sense ..... you are just twisting things to conform with your opinion.

No, I'm paraphrasing from Yam's own quoted sources, which as usual don't support his claims. Some people suffer from schizophrenia. Most don't. Some schizophrenics are religious but most aren't according to VS Ramachandran. Yam's study abstract says that among schizophrenics, those suffering from religious themed delusions seem more severely ill than those with non-religious ones, and that this observation requires further study.

None of these observations tell us much about religion or religious people in general, most of whom do not suffer from schizophrenia or TLE.

9/12/2015 6:49:35 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

sail_dancer
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Quote from clarence2:
.
Quote from sail_dancer:
Exactly how can most schizophrenics not be religious ..... yet "commonly" have religious delusions? That doesn't make sense ..... you are just twisting things to conform with your opinion.


No, I'm paraphrasing from Yam's own quoted sources, which as usual don't support his claims. Some people suffer from schizophrenia. Most don't. Some schizophrenics are religious but most aren't according to VS Ramachandran. Yam's study abstract says that among schizophrenics, those suffering from religious themed delusions seem more severely ill than those with non-religious ones, and that this observation requires further study.

None of these observations tell us much about religion or religious people in general, most of whom do not suffer from schizophrenia or TLE.


Again you refuse to include in your summation the findings that schizophrenics "commonly" have religious delusions.

What is your definition of "commonly"?

Why are you purposely avoiding the finding that ..... schizophrenics "commonly" have religious delusions.

Peace

9/12/2015 7:07:00 AM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
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Quote from sail_dancer:


What is your definition of "commonly"?

I don't have a definition. Read the study if you wish to learn more about what the authors mean. If you can find a freely accessible copy, post a link.

9/12/2015 7:47:15 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,520)
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Quote from clarence2:
.
Quote from sail_dancer:


What is your definition of "commonly"?

I don't have a definition. Read the study if you wish to learn more about what the authors mean. If you can find a freely accessible copy, post a link.


Couldn't find a free copy.

Have you ever used the word "commonly" in conversations or written prose?

In what context did you use it?

Peace

9/12/2015 8:28:05 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
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Quote from clarence2:
VS Ramachandran doesn't support the view that "religiosity may simply be the product of superstition and ignorance", and in fact no serious scientists studying brain science or psychology of religion use that sort of crude pejorative language.
A brain disorder works just as well. A brain disorder in the temporal lobes is obviously a very nice source for irrational superstitious beliefs.


Ramachandran posits a tentative hypothesis of an evolutionary origin for the temporal lobe's involvement with religious experience.
Did you make that up? Where does he specifically speak of adaptive behavior of abnormalities in the temporal lobes.


I notice he also says that the "encounter with God" hypothesis for these mental events cannot be discounted by science, and that most schizophrenics are not religious.
You're babbling like a religious person. Robert Sapoksy says most schizophrenics have religious delusions...

And just a simple google yields results of common schizophrenic delusions. Religious delusions is on the list. So is it possible the a non-religious schizophrenic can have a religious delusion and visa versa? It's just you babbling and thrashing about to avoid the facts.

9/12/2015 8:36:09 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
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We haven't heard from juliusdaniels. Did he bugger off?

9/12/2015 9:10:59 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,288)
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Quote from clarence2:
.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:
The study, not article is specifically about what it says in the title: Religious delusions in patients admitted to hospital with schizophrenia.

To say you the "article" is more about schizophrenia than religion then 1) can you explain the title of the study? 2) You had access to the pubmed study, not just the abstract. Is that true?

Nope. You didn't post the whole study. Just an abstract. I should have used the words "study abstract" instead of "article". I doubt that you've read the whole thing. I accessed part of the study here though and had a browse.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s001270200005#page-1

To quote a short sound bite, the study states:

To summarize, religious beliefs are fairly common and not pathological.


Why a partial quote. Where's the rest of it?

To summarize, religious beliefs are fairly common and not pathological.
Beliefs such as loving thy neighbor, doing to others as you would have them do unto you, not murdering or stealing. Very nice beliefs which by the way are found in philosophy and ethics so why contaminate it with religious delusions?

Religious people demonstrate an external attributional bias.
A very important point of magical thinking which is in fact defined in the DSM.

A proportion of people will experience psychotic experiences, some of which will involve auditory hallucinations.
Voices in the head. Too bad there wasn't a percentage but you only need a few loons to affect a whole community and their beliefs. That is a historical fact.


There will be an attempt to make sense of these experiences and the religious people in particular are more likely to make sense of their psychotic experiences by developing religious delusions.
Bingo! Did you get that? Read it again and again until you do.

These religious experiences and delusions may help the person deal with the negative life events which they are faced with.
Yes, being delusional may cause less stress than dealing with reality. Weak people avoid reality and therefore avoid stress.

9/12/2015 9:17:21 AM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
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Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Did you make that up? Where does he specifically speak of adaptive behavior of abnormalities in the temporal lobes.

Listen from 07:45 in the video you posted or read this part of the Wiki entry:

"There may be dedicated neural machinery in the temporal lobes concerned with religion. This may have evolved to impose order and stability on society."[51]

Robert Sapoksy says most schizophrenics have religious delusions...

From past convos I'm not convinced you've ever read and understood Sapolsky's essay Circling the Blanket for God. It seems to me you select sound bites from websites and videos that you haven't read or viewed in their entirety and that superficially appear to support your heckling agenda, but only to someone equally as clueless as yourself.



[Edited 9/12/2015 9:17:57 AM ]

9/12/2015 11:50:48 AM Why are christians so scared ?  

iyamwutiyam
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Quote from clarence2:

Robert Sapoksy says most schizophrenics have religious delusions...


From past convos I'm not convinced you've ever read and understood Sapolsky's essay Circling the Blanket for God. It seems to me you select sound bites from websites and videos that you haven't read or viewed in their entirety and that superficially appear to support your heckling agenda, but only to someone equally as clueless as yourself.


You're a poor researcher and have a great lack of understanding Sapolsky. Here are EXACT QUOTES from him that drive home the point that schizophrenics suffer mostly from religious delusions. The best point he makes is that you can write studies on who and what people are hallucinating about.

Vast majority of hallucinations in schizophrenia are auditory hallucinations. What we see in in a little while with the neurochemistry is of hallucinations by all logic what they should be is just random splatters of noise and random visual dots and all that. Instead they’re structured. They have content. People hear voices rather than random sound. People see very structured hallucinations sufficiently so that researchers can even do studies as to which are the most common voice is heard by schizophrenics and no surprise in Western cultures forever and ever the number one voice on the hit parade is that of Jesus. The number two voice Satan. The number three typically whoever is the head of state in the country at that point. It’s structured to that extent that you can publish papers about who and what the hallucinations are like.


Got that? Number one is Jesus. Number two is Satan.



[Edited 9/12/2015 11:52:34 AM ]

9/12/2015 3:19:19 PM Why are christians so scared ?  
clarence2
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Quote from sail_dancer:
Exactly how can most schizophrenics not be religious ..... yet "commonly" have religious delusions? That doesn't make sense ..... you are just twisting things to conform with your opinion.

I would think that to be considered "commonly" ..... something should exist at least 50% of the time.

From the study abstract:

METHOD:
A cross-sectional investigation was carried out. The prevalence of religious delusions was assessed and comparisons were made between religiously deluded patients and a control group on demographic, symptom, functioning and religious variables. One hundred and ninety-three subjects were examined of whom 24% had religious delusions.