| 7/21/2016 10:21:01 PM |
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lobo_corazon
Orleans, ON
48, joined May. 2008
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Beautiful words, Shy. I can't argue with any of it, except for one thing---wherever it has been tried, socialism has failed.
Except that is completely false.
Socialism worked just fine for hundreds of years for a few million native North Americans, before the Europeans brought Capitalism to the New World.
Meanwhile, the idealized half-formed notion of Capitalism (that it could somehow be a completely un-regulated free-for all governed only by Adam Smith's "invisible hand")... Well that's definitely never been tried, thank God. It would explode and consume itself in no time.
The folks who do all the work that is necessary for everyone's survival (producing food, keeping the electricity on, etc.) will only take so much blatant abuse, before they stage a slave revolt.
The day the capitalists decide to go ahead and let anyone who isn't making profit for them starve, we will know that their days are numbered. Starvation always leads to revolution.
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| 7/21/2016 11:10:18 PM |
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mr_bad_robot
Cincinnati, OH
42, joined Jul. 2014
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For the socialist model to work, the majority has to be both altruistic and empathetic. I'm not saying that's impossible, or that it doesn't sometimes happen. But I don't think it is a good idea to place responsibility and consequences of individual actions onto all, as that causes:
1.) lack of motivation to work
2.) lack of freedom, and consequently
3.) lack of happiness in the society.
To do so makes the society incredibly unstable. I can't think of a way for freedom and individual autonomy to survive in a society where all are one, and consequences and rights are not conferred onto the individual.
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| 7/22/2016 5:38:12 AM |
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maniacmassager
Lawrence, MA
51, joined Mar. 2008
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lobo_corazon seems to have plenty of sense.
Hes a jack off 
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| 7/22/2016 8:42:52 AM |
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Jack__daniels
Jacksonville, FL
60, joined Oct. 2015
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 Lobocorazon you are an idiot.
By definition does not exist the private property in socialism, especially if you refer to an extremist like Marx.
I guess did you read "The Capital"?
The means of production do not belong to the people, they are controlled through a complicate burocratic system by the government; and the government does it (supposely) for the good of the people.
In Socialism there is not Private Property. The private property does not exist. By definition.
So if the Private Property does not exist?
How can exist the middle class?
The middle class owns private property! By definition as well.
Can you see that the middle class cannot have anything to do with socialism?
Because the bourgeoisie owns private property and that is uncompatible with socialism. 
I think you are confusing the middle class with the working class.
Carl Marx talks about working class. The bourgeoisie is the enemy for Marx.
I honestly doubt that you ever read Marx. 
The f**ker blocked me, I cant wait to see what chairman drth , alls fair and blueeyed cougar writes when they get a hold of this f**kers posts
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| 7/22/2016 8:43:29 AM |
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Jack__daniels
Jacksonville, FL
60, joined Oct. 2015
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Hes a jack off
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| 7/24/2016 9:50:15 PM |
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stregaleonora
Atlanta, GA
41, joined Jun. 2014
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Socialism is not a form of government, it is an economic model. Just like capitalism isn't a form of government but an economic model.
Dictatorship is a government type. Just like Democracy. You can have a democratic socialism, so your dictatorship comment is nonsensical.
Every ideology which is political is a form of government. If the economic model defines the government actions, that economic model becames a form of government. Even a religion, when defines the laws of a state, is a form of government.
Islam is a form of government.
Communism (or socialism) is a form of government
Do you know that exist also something called a capitalistic state? And is the type of state where the interference of the government in the economy is minimal. The state exists only to protect from criminal. It is also called lassaiz-faire.
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| 7/24/2016 9:53:03 PM |
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stregaleonora
Atlanta, GA
41, joined Jun. 2014
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The f**ker blocked me, I cant wait to see what chairman drth , alls fair and blueeyed cougar writes when they get a hold of this f**kers posts
He is saying a lot of bullshits.
He should get a decent book of economy from amazon and read by himself!
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| 7/24/2016 10:05:48 PM |
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stregamorgana
Atlanta, GA
41, joined Jul. 2014
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Except that is completely false.
Socialism worked just fine for hundreds of years for a few million native North Americans, before the Europeans brought Capitalism to the New World.
Native Americans???
Native Americans' was not even an economy in the modern sense of the term, and you know why?
Because Native Americans didn't have a currency. They were using the barter. This form of archaic "economy" (some economists even don't consider the barter an economy) couldn't dalay payments. So they did not use the interest. And they couldn't have banks.
Native Americans? Really?
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| 7/24/2016 10:13:01 PM |
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naprinciple
West Plains, MO
48, joined Feb. 2014
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Native Americans???
Native Americans' was not even an economy in the modern sense of the term, and you know why?
Because Native Americans didn't have a currency. They were using the barter. This form of archaic "economy" (some economists even don't consider the barter an economy) couldn't dalay payments. So they did not use the interest. And they couldn't have banks.
Native Americans? Really?
Do you think delaying payments and interest, is good for society?
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| 7/24/2016 10:14:23 PM |
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the_israelite
Rio de JaneiroRio de Janeiro
Brazil
35, joined Apr. 2016
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Native Americans???
Native Americans' was not even an economy in the modern sense of the term, and you know why?
Because Native Americans didn't have a currency. They were using the barter. This form of archaic "economy" (some economists even don't consider the barter an economy) couldn't dalay payments. So they did not use the interest. And they couldn't have banks.
Native Americans? Really?
Who are you to think that you can force yourself or your way of life on people who had their own way of life?
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| 7/24/2016 10:14:57 PM |
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stregamorgana
Atlanta, GA
41, joined Jul. 2014
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Socialism is about making it work for the people who make that society run, rather than mainly the wealthy. 
But the people who work need to be directed.
How can they function if nobody organizes the resources, defines the goals and tells them what to do?
Do you think that you can throw a lot of random peoole there and they automatically produce wealthy?
Just consider the complexity of modern economies.
No offense but I can see you and your new friend lobo ride unicorns in the sky.
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| 7/24/2016 10:18:21 PM |
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stregamorgana
Atlanta, GA
41, joined Jul. 2014
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Who are you to think that you can force yourself or your way of life on people who had their own way of life?
Native Americans used barter so their system cannot be compared to modern economies. This is very objective.
Yours screaming "racist" bullshit doesn't work this time Israelite.
You will have to find other ways to cover your lack of arguments (and knowledge).
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| 7/25/2016 1:54:16 PM |
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shylywilling
Medford, OR
56, joined Jan. 2008
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Native Americans used barter so their system cannot be compared to modern economies. This is very objective.
Yours screaming "racist" bullshit doesn't work this time Israelite.
You will have to find other ways to cover your lack of arguments (and knowledge).
Perhaps you did not read my previous posts in your thread here. All native humans developed as democratic/communist societies long before the introduction of a private property resource management system. In fact before the moment of private property introduction, (related to us as the scriptural story of Adam and Eve and the forbidden fruit),as a system of natural resource management communities were harmoniously naturally civil teams of equal value/voice.
(Gen 2:4) These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Note this verse is prior to any reference to the first attempt of man at a civic system of private property resource management, ie..capitalism.
Just after this verse and just prior the story of Adam, Eve, and the offspring,(serpent), we are given our natural structure for civilization. The four rivers of Eden are resource priorities for civilization.
1. Relieve all suffering.
2. Growth and evolution.
3. Recreation.
4. Conservation.
Other then these priorities we only need a single law of a harmless intent, 12 years of standard education followed by 12 years of public service in available harmless intent career of one's choice for each and every citizen. A democracy to facilitate management logistics.
At thirty doing what ever one loves with all the available training, networking, and resources to do so, few if any would simply retire and do nothing. Most would simply continue doing what they love to do.
Private property capitalism, (the forbidden fruit), is the enemy of state. Any leader that does not acknowledge and admit this is derelict and immature or maliciously and selfishly uncivil.
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| 7/25/2016 2:58:28 PM |
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progrocknic
Mount Arlington, NJ
33, joined Dec. 2012
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Every ideology which is political is a form of government. If the economic model defines the government actions, that economic model becames a form of government. Even a religion, when defines the laws of a state, is a form of government.
Islam is a form of government.
Communism (or socialism) is a form of government
Do you know that exist also something called a capitalistic state? And is the type of state where the interference of the government in the economy is minimal. The state exists only to protect from criminal. It is also called lassaiz-faire.
A religion is not a government gorm. A theocracy is. Socialism and communism is two different things. Economic models are not governments. Capitalism is not a form of government. Socialism is not a form of government. Try using a source other than Mr. Ramo, whatever the f**k that is.
[Edited 7/25/2016 2:58:47 PM ]
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| 7/25/2016 3:02:54 PM |
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progrocknic
Mount Arlington, NJ
33, joined Dec. 2012
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Native Americans used barter so their system cannot be compared to modern economies. This is very objective.
Wampum. It was currency until the settlers caused over inflation.
We don't really even have currency now. We have a number. I don't need any cash, just a number. So long as my number is bigger than the number on the thing I'm buying, it's a doable trade.
Currency is just standardized bartering and that's what the wampum was.
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| 7/25/2016 10:24:03 PM |
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hunter12gauge
Bellaire, OH
54, joined Apr. 2008
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Wampum. It was currency until the settlers caused over inflation.
We don't really even have currency now. We have a number. I don't need any cash, just a number. So long as my number is bigger than the number on the thing I'm buying, it's a doable trade.
Currency is just standardized bartering and that's what the wampum was.
NOT even close, Try again, mentally challenged boy. 
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| 7/26/2016 12:22:58 AM |
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lobo_corazon
Orleans, ON
48, joined May. 2008
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Wampum. It was currency until the settlers caused over inflation.
Wampum was never really currency (until the Europeans made it such). It was more like hand-made art worthy of bartering for something else of value.
If someone gave you a hand-painted necklace now in exchange for some food, you wouldn't say "aha, that necklace is currency!"... It didn't have a set value/denomination... And the natives didn't need wampum to buy stuff like we need currency if we want to get anything we didn't catch ourselves.
[Edited 7/26/2016 12:23:42 AM ]
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| 7/26/2016 12:27:16 AM |
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lobo_corazon
Orleans, ON
48, joined May. 2008
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Every ideology which is political is a form of government. If the economic model defines the government actions, that economic model becames a form of government. Even a religion, when defines the laws of a state, is a form of government.
Islam is a form of government.
Communism (or socialism) is a form of government
No, and no.
Environmentalism is not a form of government, even if some societies may lean towards environmentalism and elect politicians who support their views.
Taxation isn't a form of government, militarism isn't a form of government, and NASCAR isn't. Apples and oranges. Government is what holds a country together - The rest of that stuff are just things that happen within the country.
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| 7/26/2016 12:32:19 AM |
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the_israelite
Rio de JaneiroRio de Janeiro
Brazil
35, joined Apr. 2016
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lobo_corazon seems like a really smart guy.
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| 7/26/2016 12:35:44 AM |
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naprinciple
West Plains, MO
48, joined Feb. 2014
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lobo_corazon seems like a really smart guy.
Too bad he uses his brain for evil
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| 7/26/2016 12:49:01 AM |
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the_israelite
Rio de JaneiroRio de Janeiro
Brazil
35, joined Apr. 2016
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What is evil about helping the downtrodden?
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| 7/26/2016 12:53:30 AM |
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naprinciple
West Plains, MO
48, joined Feb. 2014
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What is evil about helping the downtrodden?
Strawman argument! I didn't suggest helping the down trodden was evil, you did
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| 7/26/2016 5:13:44 AM |
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likedis96
West Bend, WI
34, joined Jun. 2011
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The name Israel means strong against God
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| 7/26/2016 5:42:22 AM |
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nuffan
Kennesaw, GA
54, joined Mar. 2014
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We are not nor have never been socialist...
We have PRIVATE ownership...SOCIALISM DOES NOT...
We are not looking to end private ownership...
We have had democratic socialism since 1913 when the US approved taxing citizens based on income...
But I do love when people who are clueless make threads to discuss a subject
when they know nothing about the subject...
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| 7/26/2016 8:56:13 AM |
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lobo_corazon
Orleans, ON
48, joined May. 2008
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We are not nor have never been socialist...
We have PRIVATE ownership...SOCIALISM DOES NOT...
Factually incorrect. Socialism is the people who do the work being in control of and benefiting from the means of their own production, i.e. the industries. It doesn't mean you can't own your own shoes, or house.
A family farm is socialism, for example. Privately owned by the people who do the work on the farm.
Before the Europeans brought Capitalism to North America, it didn't exist here. The native American tribes were pure socialist/communist.
[Edited 7/26/2016 8:56:36 AM ]
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| 7/26/2016 9:40:20 AM |
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naprinciple
West Plains, MO
48, joined Feb. 2014
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Factually incorrect. Socialism is the people who do the work being in control of and benefiting from the means of their own production, i.e. the industries. It doesn't mean you can't own your own shoes, or house.
A family farm is socialism, for example. Privately owned by the people who do the work on the farm.
Before the Europeans brought Capitalism to North America, it didn't exist here. The native American tribes were pure socialist/communist.
Can one own land in your world view?
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| 7/26/2016 10:59:57 AM |
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nuffan
Kennesaw, GA
54, joined Mar. 2014
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Factually incorrect. Socialism is the people who do the work being in control of and benefiting from the means of their own production, i.e. the industries. It doesn't mean you can't own your own shoes, or house.
A family farm is socialism, for example. Privately owned by the people who do the work on the farm.
Before the Europeans brought Capitalism to North America, it didn't exist here. The native American tribes were pure socialist/communist.
According to definition...
The primary difference between Capitalism vs Socialism....
IS PRIVATE OWNERSHIP...
Drawing a correlation between a family farm and socialism is stupid...
had you actually used the words COMMUNITY FARM...that would make sense...
Native Americans did not allow private citizens of the tribe to OWN land...
The tribe would plant on the land for the benefit of the entire tribe...
They had territorial wars against other tribes...but that war decided which tribe had rights to farm in that territory.
Citizens have no ownership in SOCIALISM...and you can not talk around that sticking point...
[Edited 7/26/2016 11:00:57 AM ]
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| 7/26/2016 8:06:42 PM |
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Jack__daniels
Jacksonville, FL
60, joined Oct. 2015
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According to definition...
The primary difference between Capitalism vs Socialism....
IS PRIVATE OWNERSHIP...
Drawing a correlation between a family farm and socialism is stupid...
had you actually used the words COMMUNITY FARM...that would make sense...
Native Americans did not allow private citizens of the tribe to OWN land...
The tribe would plant on the land for the benefit of the entire tribe...
They had territorial wars against other tribes...but that war decided which tribe had rights to farm in that territory.
Citizens have no ownership in SOCIALISM...and you can not talk around that sticking point...
bro you are wasting your time with that one, no matter how much evidence you put in front of him he will still deny it
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| 7/26/2016 10:13:38 PM |
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chairman_drth
Toronto, ON
47, joined Dec. 2015
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Factually incorrect. Socialism is the people who do the work being in control of and benefiting from the means of their own production, i.e. the industries. It doesn't mean you can't own your own shoes, or house.
A family farm is socialism, for example. Privately owned by the people who do the work on the farm.
Before the Europeans brought Capitalism to North America, it didn't exist here. The native American tribes were pure socialist/communist.
This is what makes me laugh,You really dont know what socialism is, just because Marx and Engels used the term "primitive communism" that doesn't make it so?
Communism and Marxism are not the same thing, why do you people keep saying so is a mystery.
Hunter and gather clan for the most part are primitive and yes Communal, in North America alone there are over 140 different tribes and languages, not all of them were peaceful hence the tribal warfare, you do know about that right? or are you trying to tell us that in pure socialism or communism the natives were all peaceful and didnt fight or go war with each other?
Pure Socialist or communist? Good Lord.
Socialism is the people doing all the work being in control? sorry that is wrong.
A family farm is socialism? Im still scratching my head over that? A family farm is privately owned so how could it be socialism? the farm if owned by the state or community serving the people of the community would be considered socialism? yes.
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| 7/26/2016 10:18:28 PM |
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chairman_drth
Toronto, ON
47, joined Dec. 2015
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I guess you don't pay much attention to sports. If you ever watched the Tour de France, or various cycling (or distance running) events at the Olympics, you'd get it.
And the winner of the Tour de france receives much much money? oooops
The winner of the gold Medals of whatever sport in the Olympics gets endorsements from???? ooops
And since we are talking about Olympic sports Jon Montgomery is doing what now after his 2010 gold metal win?
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| 7/26/2016 10:34:32 PM |
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61falcon
New Hope, PA
76, joined Feb. 2008
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For the past 40 years the worlds most successful economy has been the communist Chinese who have managed to average an incredible 13% per year economic growth and virtually rebuilt themselves as a modern 21st century country as we have struggled to make 3% annual growth.As we go further into debt and watch our infrastructure collapse around us.They too are now beginning to collapse and shrink as they pile up debt,but at least they are doing it in a country that is in the 21st century while we languish with early or mid century 20th century infrastructure that is woefully in need of modernization and upgrade.
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| 7/26/2016 10:37:37 PM |
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hunter12gauge
Bellaire, OH
54, joined Apr. 2008
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For the past 40 years the worlds most successful economy has been the communist Chinese who have managed to average an incredible 13% per year economic growth and virtually rebuilt themselves as a modern 21st century country as we have struggled to make 3% annual growth.As we go further into debt and watch our infrastructure collapse around us.They too are now beginning to collapse and shrink as they pile up debt,but at least they are doing it in a country that is in the 21st century while we languish with early or mid century 20th century infrastructure that is woefully in need of modernization and upgrade.
They manipulate their currency! The rest is BULLSHIT. 
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| 7/26/2016 10:39:12 PM |
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chairman_drth
Toronto, ON
47, joined Dec. 2015
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For the past 40 years the worlds most successful economy has been the communist Chinese who have managed to average an incredible 13% per year economic growth and virtually rebuilt themselves as a modern 21st century country as we have struggled to make 3% annual growth.As we go further into debt and watch our infrastructure collapse around us.They too are now beginning to collapse and shrink as they pile up debt,but at least they are doing it in a country that is in the 21st century while we languish with early or mid century 20th century infrastructure that is woefully in need of modernization and upgrade.
And your point is what?
Capitalism works?
China is also slowing down unless you missed that point? their middle class transition is starting to catch up to them.
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| 7/26/2016 11:09:01 PM |
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61falcon
New Hope, PA
76, joined Feb. 2008
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Darth for the past 40 years they have kicked capitalism ass.
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| 7/26/2016 11:11:00 PM |
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chairman_drth
Toronto, ON
47, joined Dec. 2015
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kicked capitalism ass??
Good lord man, how does one kick capitalism ass?
Capitalism is alive and doing well in China, Mao , Marx, Engels are rolling over in their graves.
Mind you they are doing a lot of crony capitalism because a lot of the Politburo are rich and that aint right.
Kind of like Congress, a lot of them became rich.
[Edited 7/26/2016 11:12:04 PM ]
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| 7/27/2016 2:52:10 AM |
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stregaleonora
Atlanta, GA
41, joined Jun. 2014
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Citizens have no ownership in SOCIALISM...and you can not talk around that sticking point...
Those people are a bunch of idiots.
There is just no point to keep discussing with them.
Native American society was a communist society?
Give me a break.
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| 7/27/2016 5:17:49 PM |
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shylywilling
Medford, OR
56, joined Jan. 2008
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LORD God some are dense. Chuckle.
Private property, (described as forbidden fruit in scripture), is the enemy of state purpose which is the equal value/voice per citizen.
The absolute foundation of civilization is communism. Democracy is a communist principal of civilized resource management/distribution. Ie.. An equal voice/value per each and every citizen. No private individual property advantages/divisions.
Private property capitalism/Darwinism is the absolute polar opposite of civilization. Socialism is just a slightly modified ,(minute lean toward civility/communism), form of capitalism, which is, the distribution of private property advantage/division.
Ten iron rods in cooperation(democratic commune) will outperform ten self serving individual (capitalist) iron rods every single time. It is fact. I don't doubt there is losers and winners amongst the capitalists, just saying that even the winning one percent capitalist, cannot compete with even the least democratic/communist.
It is time to give up our immature quest for self advantage that is stunting everyone's potential. It is time to birth as one species, one kingdom of one harmless intent. A capitalist is already familiar with and likely sold on the concept of a harmless intent. The law of a harmless intent does not allow one to forego contributing by intent but with most able and equipped, the bar for malicious idlers will be so low as to be ignored. Since all alive have been granted a heart beat and the will to survive, I can confidently say that not a single one of you readers would fail to contribute your fair share. Plus considering how poorly capitalists perform, I can likewise confidently predict that each and every reader united in/as one single kingdom's citizen, would have far more resources and opportunity available to reach his/her/your potential then you ever would or could as individual capitalists.
And, stewardship does not mean all have to give up current possessions. If you think you can provide more benefit to the whole with something in my possession/stewardship: Go for it, or get your own to steward for us, whichever works out the least harmful most beneficial to the whole.
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| 7/27/2016 7:24:42 PM |
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chairman_drth
Toronto, ON
47, joined Dec. 2015
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LORD God some are dense. Chuckle.
Private property, (described as forbidden fruit in scripture), is the enemy of state purpose which is the equal value/voice per citizen.
blah blah blah.
Answer me this smart guy, how many jobs have you created??
Private property exists in civilized advanced societies for a reason that is why they are called first world advanced societies , tell me which countries practiced Socialism, Marxism, Marxist-leninism, fascism,or hunter gathers clans like the Native Indians that was peaceful?
Even the Kibbutz in Israel had conflict and eventually had to allow privatization to seep , you do know that right?
Since you keep mentioning the bible, is there a place on this planet that is governed my Men of cloth upholding 100% things in the bible? a communal place where communism/socialism and civility as you keep talking about exists?
You Say capitalism performs poorly, yet you live a comfortable life in America right?
You're on the internet, dont know if you pay for it or not or you go to the library but perhaps you should take a trip to rural Mexico, there are a few regions that practices anarchy, no government, no rich , no capitalism and see how you like it there.
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| 7/27/2016 7:35:12 PM |
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61falcon
New Hope, PA
76, joined Feb. 2008
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hunter if they accomplished what they have for the past 40 years by simply manipulating their currency, then I suggest we start doing it immediately.They have done it through hard work, as we have become a nation of internet addicted loafers.When we were a great nation we did not have 94 million plus working age Americans sitting home loafing.
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| 7/27/2016 8:58:01 PM |
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shylywilling
Medford, OR
56, joined Jan. 2008
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drth pretends to be one of the dense ones.
I already said I know of no significant examples of a pure communist society on this planet since prior the scriptural story of the forbidden fruit. Every known example outside of scripture since then has been corrupted by the divisionary and stunting influences of private property capitalism. However I also showed you in scripture the text describing a community of unity in dedication to a creator/provider in the form of each other. Generations of natural harmonious communist civilization.
(Gen 2:4) These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Several more are described and or mentioned in these scriptural texts. Mostly in the context of societies battling with the hypocritical influences much like our current societies. In other words, our known history is nothing but the attempts at civilizations and the ensuing decay and failure of each and every endeavor at a society from the self defeating influence of private property capitalism. All had what seemed boon times for the advantaged and all eventually failed from the inequitable influences of private property capitalism.
I have already explained to drth in posts here, that communism and socialism are not the same. There is no private property in democracy or communism or true Christianity. I have stressed this point enough just in this thread to think you dense just for associating me with your equating the two different paradigms together drth.
Everybody knows that a team in cooperative harmony will always out perform the same number of individuals working independently for a private advantage.
So what we have left to address from your post drth is nothing. Your attempted personal attacks fail to warrant more then this acknowledgement.
"Material possessions can be carelessly acquired but wealth of character seeds must be planted in fertile soil and nurtured with infinite care." V.Croxton
"Poverty breeds greater helplessness, of which, in a vast amount of cases, it is a direct result." V.Croxton
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| 7/27/2016 9:07:23 PM |
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chairman_drth
Toronto, ON
47, joined Dec. 2015
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Dude your buddy lobo corozon says the native Indians are the closest thing to pure communism and socialism, perhaps this is an argument to take up with him? yes.
2) Point out where I said that Communism and socialism are the same thing?
Hint" you will never find it, because Ive never said that.
3) How do you explain Proverbs 19:14?
4) How do you explain 1 Timothy 5:8 ?
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| 7/27/2016 9:56:08 PM |
America is getting Socialist | Page 2 |
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shylywilling
Medford, OR
56, joined Jan. 2008
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Dude your buddy lobo corozon says the native Indians are the closest thing to pure communism and socialism, perhaps this is an argument to take up with him? yes.
2) Point out where I said that Communism and socialism are the same thing?
Hint" you will never find it, because Ive never said that.
quote from drth's immediate previous post:
"Since you keep mentioning the bible, is there a place on this planet that is governed my Men of cloth upholding 100% things in the bible? a communal place where communism/socialism and civility as you keep talking about exists?"
I underlined your work in question
3) How do you explain Proverbs 19:14?
(Pro 19:14) House and riches are the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife is from the LORD.
I am not a fan of using these verses (proverbs), because without the immediate surrounding contextual passages it is easy to misinterpret these single verses. In the context of the entire scripture's principle of a brotherhood of stewardship I would say it is a reference to the simple love and loyalty of a prudent woman is closer to a heavenly eternal existence then all the riches and houses of material interests of man.
4) How do you explain 1 Timothy 5:8 ?
(1Ti 5:8) But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
It never fails, some idiot thinks this verse is a defense for capitalistic profiteering. Of course all whom can should contribute. This verse does not justify profiting from that which LORD God has created and provided for all. Nor does it or I in any way suggest that one should free load on the dole. "Ask not what your country can do for you but rather ask what you can do for your country"
So in short the verse is saying, get off your butt and earn and or contribute to what the LORD God has created and provided for all to benefit. It does not suggest enslaving your fellow man to private property leverages and profiteering.
I am glad that you are attempting to use this valuable text book. There is absolutely nothing new to man's behaviors that isn't covered in this text.
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| 7/27/2016 10:06:26 PM |
America is getting Socialist | Page 2 |
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chairman_drth
Toronto, ON
47, joined Dec. 2015
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Doesn't matter if you're a fan of proverbs or not Shyly, its in the bible
2) Since you're a little slow on the take, Why did I mention 1 Timothy 5:8 ?
It wasn't for "capitalistic profiteering"
Its because you said this putz
There is no private property in democracy or communism or true Christianity.
Do you remember posting that^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I should have quoted Deuteronomy 5:21
Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Did you see the part about covet that Neighbours HOUSE , HIS FIELD?
Care to explain that one to me?
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| 7/27/2016 11:22:49 PM |
America is getting Socialist | Page 2 |
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shylywilling
Medford, OR
56, joined Jan. 2008
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drth writes:
"Doesn't matter if you're a fan of proverbs or not Shyly, its in the bible
2) Since you're a little slow on the take, Why did I mention 1 Timothy 5:8 ?
It wasn't for "capitalistic profiteering"
Its because you said this putz
There is no private property in democracy or communism or true Christianity.
Do you remember posting that^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I should have quoted Deuteronomy 5:21
Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Did you see the part about covet that Neighbours HOUSE , HIS FIELD?
Care to explain that one to me?"
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Shy responds:
Sure. You are on a very well beaten path of misunderstanding and very well lubricated by thousands of years of cunning capitalist treachery and deceit.
We do this in today's linguistics also. One might refer to a supplied and equipped work station as his own when in reality he/she has only been granted stewardship/dominion of it. An even more common one is when one reefer's to an association as his/her own, ie.. my team, town, brand.
I am not fooled drth. Private property capitalism is the enemy/forbidden fruit of state/civilization.
Perhaps I missed were man was granted ownership of anything other then a heart beat and a will to survive. Below I highlighted some verses were we are granted dominion and I know if I tried I would find the term stewardship in reference to what we have been granted but someone will have to point out to me where in scripture we are rightfully granted the ownership of anything including a free will.
(Gen 1:26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
(Gen 1:27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
(Gen 1:28) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
(Gen 1:29) And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.<--(could argue this means "for use")
(Gen 1:30) And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
(Gen 1:31) And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
There are a great many references in scripture to the ills of private property capitalism, "the forbidden fruit", that mankind would self inflict and suffer from until mankind finally returns to a unified kingdom of one mature democratic/communist civilization.
The kingdom of heaven, "utopia", is right here awaiting our brave unified step together as infant of LORD God, (one unified intelligent species). We will blossom and explode in flourishing harmony when we do but until then we will continue withering in painful birthing spasms of violent outburst responses to uncivil inequalities. Enslavement to the false/temporary umbilical chord of private property leverage, (capitalism).
The first verse warning us of the enslavement consequences of private property capitalism/eating the forbidden fruit.
(Gen 3:15) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Capitalists will cannibalize and enslave even their own immediate family. Serpents, beast and harlots looking out for each self cannot be trusted as partners and hence rot from within the structure of a society. families are divided in enmity and society fails.
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| 7/28/2016 12:13:36 PM |
America is getting Socialist | Page 2 |
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nycman530
New York, NY
64, joined Dec. 2010
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Every time Democrats protest, there is violence, vandalism, and burning of the flag. The mentality of these people scares me. Is this what you want for the USA? Your way or no way? This is not democracy but more like domestic terrorism.
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| 7/28/2016 10:10:33 PM |
America is getting Socialist | Page 2 |
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chairman_drth
Toronto, ON
47, joined Dec. 2015
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shylywilling, tell me where it says in the bible that capitalism is evil?
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| 7/28/2016 11:26:08 PM |
America is getting Socialist | Page 2 |
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shylywilling
Medford, OR
56, joined Jan. 2008
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"evil" I am not one to favor this description much. I find it misleading like the term satan. However just recently I came across both in scriptural text where I had not remembered them, expected them, so I will at least confirm they are there and I could present them.
Any way I don't off the top recollect where in scripture these terms appear. Are you having trouble understanding the relation of private property capitalism to the biblical stories of the forbidden fruit, Cain's denial, the tower of babel, oh shit drth, the whole bible is a collection of stories relating man's battle to recognize private property capitalism as a conflict to civilization, a brotherhood of equality, tranquility, and harmony.
Pick a friggen story or verse and I will show you how it applies to the principle of private property selfishness, (Darwinism), and the opposite principle of civilization Christanity/communism. How about a parable or two from Jesus' sermons? The king's feast, prodigal son, the vacant master's talents, the ten virgins lamps, all address capitalism's sinful attributes. Maybe you would like to explore the ever mysterious book of revelation to john and the four apocalyptic horsemen? Perhaps you might like to just randomly pick a spot anywhere in the bible text. Go for it, and I will show you that it pertains to the detrimental division of private property interests on society/civilization.
Private property capitalism is cannibalism. The advantage and leverage of profits come from creating disadvantage and enslavement.
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