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8/11/2016 12:00:50 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

indianadave1951
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,138)
Mishawaka, IN
66, joined Dec. 2010


Satan tempted Jesus in order to get him to use his God powers that he left in heaven. Jesus came to earth as a man and only after the Holy Spirit empowered him did his ministry begin. None of the miracles that he did were out of his divine nature that he left behind in Heaven.

Satan knew if he used his God powers it would disqualify him as being the perfect man incarnated by God to be man's savior. In fact, Jesus rebuked Peter (Get behind me Satan) when Peter earlier tried to persuade Jesus not to die. This being the case did Satan really place motivation in the leaders hearts to kill Jesus knowing that his dying would qualify him as the savior of mankind?

Common sense would say Satan would have fought the religious leaders from killing him. That's exactly what Satan wouldn't have wanted him to do, he tried on several occasions to stop him.

So was it through human nature alone that killed our Lord?

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8/11/2016 1:49:21 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

share_n_love
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,867)
Fort Wayne, IN
61, joined Dec. 2012


Our flesh man is satan, YHVH God allowed the desires of Yahshua's flesh man to tempt his spirit man on the mountain. There was NO spirit floating around tempting him.



8/11/2016 4:04:41 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,676)
Chicago, IL
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Quote from indianadave1951:
Satan tempted Jesus in order to get him to use his God powers that he left in heaven. Jesus came to earth as a man and only after the Holy Spirit empowered him did his ministry begin. None of the miracles that he did were out of his divine nature that he left behind in Heaven.


His "God Powers"?

Can you give us an example of His "God Powers"?

Is any of this Scriptural? I can't seem to find the phrase "God Powers" in the Bible.

Also, I can't seem to find anything in the Scriptures about Him leaving His Powers in Heaven.

Can you provide Scriptures for any of this?

8/11/2016 9:55:03 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,096)
Panama City, FL
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Dave, your first paragraph is wrong. Jesus did leave, for a period of about 33 years, the joys and glories of Heaven to live with us and be one of us, but He did not leave behind His godly powers. How could God cease being God?

The rest is speculation. I don't mean this in a bad way---not all speculation is wrong, as long as recognize it as speculation and not part of the faith. The Bible urges us to meditate on the word, and thinking about things like this are a form of meditation.

It is not a Catholic doctrine, but most Catholic writers who have addressed this subject seem to be of the opinion that the devil made a whopper of a mistake by inspiring the Jewish and Roman authorities to crucify Chtist. I think these people mean to say that, although the devil is very intelligent and clever, he is not always wise. A good and holy prophet comes along? Get somenody to kill him, is the devil's sometimes unthinking reaction.

But like I said, this is not a doctrine, just an opinion. Maybe the devil did not tempt Annas, Caiphas, Pilate, et al. Maybe the devil was smart enough to recognize that Jesus' suffering and death would be his downfall, and maybe the devil would have moved Heaven and earth to stop it, had the Lord allowed it (the devil can't do anything unless the Lord allows it, nor can anyone else, and no, this is not a denial of free will). It is true the apostles did not want Jesus to die, and maybe the devil, using the apostles' purely natural concern for Jesus, used that, and Jesus did say to Peter "get thee behind me, Satan" as you said, for the very reason you said.

I guess it all boils down to, how deep a game can or does the devil play? We know we have no chance of outsmarting him or resisting him without the Lord's help.

But thinking about things like that shows that you are meditating on the word of God, and that is good.

8/11/2016 3:39:12 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,676)
Chicago, IL
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Quote from ludlowlowell... Dave, your first paragraph is wrong. Jesus did leave, for a period of about 33 years, the joys and glories of Heaven to live with us and be one of us, but He did not leave behind His godly powers. How could God cease being God?
******************************************************************************

ludlow, your first paragraph is wrong. As a matter of fact, pretty much everything you say is wrong.

I can't wait to see the bible verse you got that tells us to speculate.

CLV 2Ti 1:13 Have a pattern of sound words, which you hear from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

Nope. Nothing here on speculation.

The Catholic church lies.

8/11/2016 3:49:38 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
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The following verses instruct us to meditate on God's word, or at least they show examples of holy people meditating: Genesis 24:63, Joshua 1:8, Psalm 1:2, 63:6, 77:12, 119:15, 119:23, 119:48, 119:78, 119:148, 143:5, and 1 Timothy 4:15. And Indianadave has done so.

8/11/2016 3:52:18 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
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There is nothing in any of these verses that talk about SPECULATION!

The Catholic church lies.

8/11/2016 6:27:39 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

louie6332
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Falkville, AL
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OP, you say: “Common sense would say Satan would have fought the religious leaders from killing him.”

OP, it is revealed that Satan knew there was something special about Jesus because of all the angles around Jesus and Mary, but that God shrouded Satan’s understanding about who Jesus was and what his mission was, you know, what God’s plan was for him. So that was something of a mystery to Satan.

Louie

8/11/2016 7:00:23 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

louie6332
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,076)
Falkville, AL
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Share, you say: “Our flesh man is Satan, YHVH God allowed the desires of Yahshua's flesh man to tempt his spirit man on the mountain. There was NO spirit floating around tempting him.”

You are trying to reinterpret the literal meaning of the scriptural passages out of existence. First of all Christ’s body was not Satan, that is blasphemy against Christ. You are implying that Christ’s body told Christ’s spirit that he was given rule over the whole Earth and that if Christ’s spirit would allow Christ’s body to drink some water, Christ’s body would give Christ’s spirit the rule over the whole world. None of which makes sense. Men are not two persons in one body.

You are twisting yourself into logical knots in an attempt to deny that Satan exists. And if every man’s body was Satan, there would be as many Satans are there are men. But there is only one Satan. Satan is a particular fallen angel, and he was given rule over the Earth. Your reinterpretation implies that every man’s body has rule over all the Earth. Your reinterpretation also imply that we can kill Satan by committing suicide. Perhaps you are confusing Satanic possession with Satan. But Christ was not possessed by Satan. My, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to wiggle out of the literal meaning of Scripture.

Second, Satan does, in fact, exist, and he did, in fact, tempt Christ during his forty days in the desert. Christ was God, but he was also a man, so he had to be tested. And he was tested by being tempted in the desert by Satan during his forty day fast.

Louie

8/11/2016 7:06:54 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

indianadave1951
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Quote from share_n_love:
Our flesh man is satan,



Satan is a fallen angel not the Yang part of our human makeup.

-----------------------------------------

To my dying day I will believe that Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God.

Acts 10:38. Luke records, "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him".

Every work of God that he performed was by using the power of the Holy Spirit. This passage states that Jesus did not work miracles until God anointed him with power by the sending of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus even states this:
John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for whatsoever things he does, these also does the Son likewise.

If Jesus performed all of his miracles out of his devine nature then why did God the Father send the Holy Spirit to anoint him? Jesus did this as an example of what his Church would be able to do after he leaves and the Holy Spirit is poured onto/into his body.

If Jesus did everything out of his devine nature than the scripture in Hebrews 4:15 that states, "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin" would be invalid. His divine nature would have held him above being tempted for God cannot be tempted.

In order for Jesus to "sympathize with our weaknesses" he would have to be rely on the Holy Spirit as we do. Jesus was always conscious of the fact that He was God.

Is Jesus devine? Absolutely. However, Acts 10:38. Luke records, "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power ... ".

Other examoples:
... but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:5-8).

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven,
"nor the Son", but only the Father. Here, Jesus himself is stating he has limitations. Once he ascends he rightfully takes up his divine authority, power and knowledge.

However, after he asended to heaven and was glorified "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me". This is when he retakes his divine power, glory and knowledge. Matthew 24:36

8/11/2016 7:34:39 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

indianadave1951
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His "God Powers"?


Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God. One part of the trinity. Maybe "God powers" was a bad phrase to use. He is eternity past and eternity future. Alpha and Omega.



[Edited 8/11/2016 7:36:00 PM ]

8/11/2016 8:12:01 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
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Panama City, FL
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Jesus is most certaily the divine Son of God. Maybe the devil had nothing to do with His death, or maybe the devil did, goofing up royally. Either way Jesus is the divine Son of God.

"In the synagogue there was a man with an unclean spirit, who shrieked in a loud voice: 'Leave us alone! What do you want from us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are: the Holy One of God.' "

--Luke 4:34

8/12/2016 2:12:29 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
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I take it you are trying to used Luke 4:34 to show that Jesus is God?




Once again your Bible is wrong. Mistranslated might be a more appropriate word.

A "Holy One" is not "divine."

The Catholic church is corrupt.

8/12/2016 4:28:30 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
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Jesus is God Incarnate. Even your Methodist, Eastern Orthodox, and Urantiaist buddies admit that.

8/12/2016 5:18:49 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
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There is nothing in the Scriptures that tells us there is a "trinity" or that Jesus is God incarnate. If that is your belief, that's dine. But it is NOT Scriptural.

I can't find "trinity" in the Bible. I can't find "God is three" or "three in one" in the Bible. I can't find the phrase "God incarnate" in the bible." I can't find any reference to Jesus being divine.

CLV Dt 6:4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One.

CLV Mk 12:29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord.


The Catholic church lies.

8/12/2016 7:13:46 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
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If Jesus is not God, why did He allow people call Him "Lord" all the time? The Jews of His day reserved that term for God. And if Jesus is not God, why did He say, "If youblove me, keep my commandments"? Why didn't He say, "keep God's commandments"? And why did He say, "I am the way, the truth, and the life"? Why didn't He say "God is the way, the truth, and the life"?

8/13/2016 5:16:10 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
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You are wrong ludlow.

Your Bible is at fault here. The Jews called God "Yahweh your Elohim" or "Ieue Alueim."

They do not call Jesus that in the NT.

Get yourself a real Bible, ludlow.

The Catholic church lies.

8/13/2016 6:52:57 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

irishrose0906
Dublin, OH
53, joined Mar. 2013


(this post has been flagged as inappropriate, sorry.)

8/13/2016 11:07:56 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
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Quote from irishrose0906... God gave Moses 10 commandments. Jesus gave us a lot more about 37 listed in the New testament. Would you like me to post them for you?

And you will be able to say I and my Father are one..
**************************************************************************************
Yes, I would like to see your rendition of Jesus' 37 Commandments.


So often people try to prove there is a "trinity" by quoting...

CLV Jn 10:30 I and the Father, We are one."

That they never seem to get around to...

CLV Jn 17:11 And no longer am I in the world, and they are in the world, and I to Thee am coming. Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, in which Thou hast given them to Me, that they may be one, according as We are.

8/13/2016 1:42:15 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
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"And the word was God...and the word took flesh and became man."

--first few verses of John's gospel

8/13/2016 3:06:39 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
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ludlow, you have mangled every Bible verse you put your greasy little hands on.

From my thread from 2011...

CLV John 1:1 In the beginning

God always was, so there is no absolute beginning. Both here and in Genesis the article the does not appear in the Ancient manuscripts. This shows that we are talking about starting with the subject at hand. In Genesis, it is the beginning of creation. Here it is the beginning of revelation. This phrase might be rendered "to begin with."

CLV John 1:1 was the word,

Logos, Saying, Expression Word. This is the revelation of God through sound, appealing to the ears of His creatures. It is inferior to (and in contrast with) the revelation of Christ as presented in sight as the Image of God.

CLV John 1:1 and the word was toward God,

"With" suggests two Greek terms neither of which applies here. For accuracy's sake we use the word "toward." "With" God is not relevant in this connection. "Toward" shows the revealed Word pointing the creatures in the direction of God.

Take every "thus saith the Lord" in the Hebrew and they will all point us to God AND will reveal something of the divine character.

CLV John 1:1 and God was the word.

The mind can not entertain both thoughts at the same time... 'toward' and 'with,' and the Word was God. Nothing which is 'toward' (or with) an object can be the object.

If I say I am 'toward' or 'with' Sally, and then say I am Sally, how can this be?

The difference is in the English and Greek idiom. "Was" and "is" are usually omitted in Greek, except in a figurative sense. Thus "This is my body" does not mean that the bread of communion turns into His Body but represents it.

Just as the bread stands for the Lord's body, so does the Word stand for God.

Here is another example...
We see a statue of Napoleon and say, "Meet me next to Napoleon in the park." No one actually thinks that the statue is really Napoleon, but a representation of Napoleon. Thus the Word is a representation of God.

The God of the Hebrew Scriptures spoke. An oral revelation. He was revealed as Ieue, Elohim, Adonal, and more. The Cabala has at least 12 names for Him. His revelations came by means of utterances to the father through the prophets, all the time His essence was concealed.

As at Sinai, His voice was heard, but He was hid.

8/13/2016 3:39:33 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
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You forgot the part about "and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us."



[Edited 8/13/2016 3:40:08 PM ]

8/13/2016 7:20:55 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
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ludlow, once again you have screwed up the interpretation...

CLV Jn 1:14 And the Word became flesh and tabernacles among us, and we gaze at His glory, a glory as of an only-begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The pre-existence of Christ is clearly implied in the statement that the Word became flesh. The Word had not assumed a human form before; now It becomes a human being. In this way grace and truth came into being through Jesus Christ. The divine expressions of the Hebrew Scriptures now converge in the Man. His previous place is further confirmed by John, when he insists that He was before him, though, as to flesh, He was after him.
A. Earnest Knoch

God and His Son were together before creation. This does not make them the same person, or being or whatever you want to call it.

CLV Gn 1:26 And saying is the Elohim, "Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness, and sway shall they over the fish of the sea, and over the flyer of the heavens, and over the beast, and over all land life, and over every moving animal moving on the land."

According to the rules of Hebrew grammar there are TWO, no more, in this "We" and "Our."

That would be God and His Son.

The Catholic church is corrupt.

8/13/2016 7:29:08 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

louie6332
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BigD, you always say this or that does not exist in Greek, and yet you admit we do not know what language the gospels were originally written in, which kind of blows all your arguments based on this assumption right out of the water. But, hey, don’t let that stop you and Knoch. You have too much time invested in such faulty arguments, which are in virtually all of your posts. Since when did faulty assumptions ever stop a heretic? With heretics, its, “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!”

BigD you say: “The difference is in the English and Greek idiom. "Was" and "is" are USUALLY omitted in Greek, except in a figurative sense. Thus "This IS my body" does not mean that the bread of communion turns into His Body but represents it. Just as the bread STANDS for the Lord's body, so does the Word stand for God.”

OK, I get it, when you say the word “usually” means “always” and when Our Lord said “This IS my body, This IS my blood,” what Christ really meant was, “This is NOT my body, This is NOT by blood”. (Or perhaps he meant "This is usually not my body", and "This is usually not by blood") And when he said “My body IS real bread, and my blood REAL drink”, the word IS does not mean "is" and the word "real" does not mean "real", what he REALLY meant is, “My body is NOT real bread, and my blood is NOT real drink. And when he said, “Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you will NOT have life in you, what he really meant was, “Unless you do NOT eat my body and do NOT drink my blood, you will not have life in you” (you know, like Protestants do). Reminds me of Bill Clinton arguing over what the word “is” means in order to get out of admitting that he had committed perjury. My, my, what tangled, twisted, logical knots we tie ourselves into when trying to wiggle out of the literal meaning of the words of Christ. Whatever we do, we must NEVER take the words of Christ literally. Right BigD? If we did that we would have to admit that he did turn the consecrated bread and wine into his body and blood, and that he really taught that there really is a Hell, fire and all, which is anathema to you and Knoch.

Finally, after Adam and Eve repented, God the Father had mercy on him and promised to send his “Word” to redeem him and his righteous descendants. This is the prophecy of Adam. His “Word” in this divine promise is his Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ. The term “word” here does not refer to revelations he gave through his prophets, but to a particular man, to the person of Christ. No wonder you are confused, BigD. Your whole life is based upon a lie.

Louie

8/13/2016 7:46:06 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

louie6332
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75, joined Nov. 2011


And BigD, you say of the passage in Genesis, "let us make him in our own image and likeness", you say; “According to the rules of Hebrew grammar there are TWO, no more, in this "We" and "Our."” Well, the words “we” and "our" in English do not mean “TWO and ONLY two”. What you are saying is that this passage was mistranslated from the Hebrew into Latin and English. What would we ever do without you and Knoch to explain away the doctrines of Christianity? According to you Knoch, the Bible is just one huge mistranslation.

One huge problem with this is that Our Lord himself has revealed, using the England language among others, through the prophets he sends to his Gentile Church that there are three persons in the Blessed Trinity. He, himself, has confirmed that. You have Knoch (and only the Lord's knows where he is right now)and we have Jesus Christ speaking in English and other languages to his Gentile Church. Now who do you believe, Jesus Christ or Knoch?

Louie

8/13/2016 8:04:46 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
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I guess, if you want to make a translation that fits your agenda, you can say anything you want. Tyndale, Luther, and Charles Taze Russell did it, why not A. E. Knoch?



[Edited 8/13/2016 8:05:18 PM ]

8/13/2016 8:06:56 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

followjesusonly
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online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I guess, if you want to make a translation that fits your agenda, you can say anything you want. Tyndale, Luther, and Charles Taze Russell did it, why not A. E. Knoch?


And your church has done it. The Synagogue of Satan.

8/13/2016 8:07:55 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  
cupocheer
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I see now why bigd has me blocked --- I'd eat his toast!

8/13/2016 8:16:27 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
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Quote from followjesusonly:
And your church has done it. The Synagogue of Satan.


Why are you challenging me here, FJO? I thought you believed in the divinity of Christ.

8/13/2016 10:38:04 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

followjesusonly
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Why are you challenging me here, FJO? I thought you believed in the divinity of Christ.


Your last post didn't have anything to do with "the divinity of Christ," it had to do with "making a translation that fits your agenda."

Your church does that.

8/13/2016 11:31:49 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
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So why aren't you on my side here, defending the divinity of Christ?

8/13/2016 11:56:06 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

irishrose0906
Dublin, OH
53, joined Mar. 2013


"The Greatest Commandment"

Jesus was asked: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments," (Matt 22:36-40, Amp).

1. "When you stand praying, forgive"

"And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins." But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your sins." (Mark 11:25-26 NIV)

2. "You must be born again"

"You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again." (John 3:7 KJV)

3. "Remain in Me and I will remain in you"

When you ask Jesus into your heart and He becomes your Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit actually lives in you, and you in Him. Here Jesus uses a grape vine to compare our relationship with Him. "Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me." ( John 15:4 NIV)

4. "Let your light shine before men"

"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. " In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven," (Matt 5:14;16 NIV).

5. "Settle matters quickly with your adversary"

"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison." (Matt 5:25 NIV)

6. "Get rid of whatever causes you to sin"

"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matt 5:29-30 NIV)

7. "Do Not Swear at All"

"But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one," (Matt 5:34-37 KJV).

8. "Do Not Resist an Evil Person"

(Turning the other cheek.)

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also," (Matt 5:38-39 NIV).

9. "Giving More than is Demanded"

(Going the extra mile)

"And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you," (Matt 5:40-42 NIV).

10. "Love Your Enemies"

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous," (Matt 5:43-45 NIV).

11. "Give to Please God, Not to be Seen"

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven," (Matt 6:1 NIV).

12. "Pray Privately, Not to be Seen of Men"

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words,"
(Matt 6:5-7 NIV).


13. "This, then, is how you should pray"

"This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.'

For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins," (Matt 6:9-15 NIV).

14. "Fast Without Fanfare"

"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full," (Matt 6:16 NIV).

15. "Do not Store up Treasures on Earth"

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also,"
(Matt 6:19-21 NIV).

16. "Do not Worry about Your Needs"

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?" (Matt 6:25-26 NIV). Commandments of Jesus

8/13/2016 11:56:41 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

irishrose0906
Dublin, OH
53, joined Mar. 2013


17. "Do not Worry about Tomorrow"

"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own," (Matt 6:34 NIV).

18. "Place God First"

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you," (Matt 6:33 NIV).

19. "Do not Judge"

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you,"
(Matt 7:1-2 NIV).

20. "Guard what is Sacred"

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces,"
(Matt 7:6 NIV).

21. "Ask, Seek, and Knock"

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you,"
(Matt 7:7 NIV).

22. "Care for Those in Distress"

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me,"
(Matt 25:34-36 NIV).

23. "Enter Through the Narrow Gate"

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it,"
(Matt 7:13-14 NIV).

24. "Watch out for false prophets"

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves," (Matt 7:15 NIV).

25. "Exercise Spiritual Power"

"He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness," (Matt 10:1 NIV).

"Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give," (Matt 10:8 NIV)."


26. "Do not Despise Childlike Believers"

"See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven," (Matt 18:10 NIV). Commandments of Jesus

27. "Do not Exalt Yourself"

"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted," (Matt 23:8-12 NIV).

28. "Settle Disputes Between Believers in this Manner..."

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector,"
(Matt 18:15-17 NIV).

29. "Do not Oppose Other Christian Groups"

"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."

"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us," (Mark 9:38-40 NIV).

30. "Have Complete Faith in God"

"Have faith in God," Jesus answered. "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," (Mark 11:22-24 NIV).

31. "Do as the Good Samaritan Did"

"The expert in the law replied, 'The one who had mercy on him.' Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise,"
(Luke 10:30-37 NIV).

32. "Love One Another"

(This commandment of Jesus summarizes all the others.)

"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you," (John 15:12 KJV).

33. "The Golden Rule"

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets," ((Matt 7:12 NIV).

34. "You Should also Wash One Another's Feet"

"Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet,"
(John 13:14 NIV).

35. "Be Merciful"

"Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful,"
(Luke 6:36 NIV).

36. "Go and Make Disciples of All Nations, Baptizing Them"

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age,"
(Matt 28:19-20 NIV).

37. "Obey What I Command"

"If you love me, you will obey what I command,"
(John 14:15 NIV).

38. "You Must be Ready"

"You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him,"
(Luke 12:40 NIV). Commandments of Jesus

8/14/2016 3:43:00 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (12,303)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
So why aren't you on my side here, defending the divinity of Christ?


I haven't been following the thread. I just happened to see your one posting that I commented on. Yes, I believe Jesus was divine.

8/14/2016 10:22:00 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,676)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from louie6332... BigD, you always say this or that does not exist in Greek, and yet you admit we do not know what language the gospels were originally written in, which kind of blows all your arguments based on this assumption right out of the water.
***********************************************************************************

First off, once again louis has created another Straw-man argument. I don't always say "this or that does not exist in Greek."

There are many forms of Greek. There are at least two forms of Greek that the NT was written in. Ancient Koine Greek and Modern Greek. Only those of us who are interested in accuracy use the Ancient Koine Greek. Perhaps louie has settled on the Modern Greek text.

Next, the fact is that NO ONE in this world knows what language the original NT was written in. Those who will tell you that they do are only fooling themselves. The fact is that those scrolls are lost to us.

So we work with what we have. The oldest and most complete Ancient text are the Ancient Koine Greek manuscripts.

The fact is there is no way to verify the Latin text that Jerome created. It is rumored to have older manuscripts but no one has been able to verify that claim.

So I still say, one in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I see nothing blown out of the water.

There is no Ancient term for "heretic." Which means it that word was not used when the Bible (NT) was written.


As usual louie has taken what I said and twisted it into something unrecognizable. His ability to create fantasy is unsurpassed here in DH, even by ludlow.

But there is one verse that I noticed is missing from his little rant. It is the defining verse where Jesus reveals exactly what His Body are Blood are.

CLV Lk 22:19 And, taking bread, giving thanks, He breaks it and gives to them, saying, "Take. This is My body, given for your sakes. This do for a recollection of Me."

So Jesus Himself defined this act as a Remembrance. Nothing more.

But I do understand why louie is so distracted. He is still thinking about that bigD. Perhaps when he is playing with his own littleD he imagines what it would be like to have that bigD.

The Catholic church lies.

8/14/2016 11:05:08 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,676)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


This irish rose has popped up from no where and is now spinning stories about what out Bible is supposed to mean.

A favorite trick among these magicians here is to use many English versions to confuse and confound anyone who reads it. The NIV, Amplified Version, KJV are among her list. The problem is, all of these English versions are based on Modern manuscripts. There are plenty to choose from. Over 15,000. And they all come from about 1500 ad. That's about 1500 years after Jesus left. Alot can happen in that time.

So she uses whatever English version will bend to her will, and her interpretation.

I will not waste my time with all of these 38 points. And I am not saying everything she says is wrong. But much of it is.

#2 - Born again is a phrase that Jesus said to the Jews, not the Gentiles.

We have found an unholy temple, an unspiritual priesthood, and now we are introduced to an ignorant teacher! Intense application to a single text book for a whole life had not taught him the elements of the truth! Nicodemus, however, was impressed with the Lord's works, little as he understood His words. Like the rest, he takes literally what is figurative. He should have known from Ezekiel, the prophet, that Israel could not enter the kingdom without a new spirit (Ezek 36:26).

Spiritual regeneration, the one imperative condition, apart from which the kingdom cannot be entered, is utterly beyond his erudition. All that he considered vital was physical relationship with the favored nation.

The Lord did not give out regeneration as good news, but as bad news. This is not the gospel, even for the Circumcision. The evangel is always concerned with God and His Christ, never with man and his needs or efforts. Of the latter nothing good can be said, no evangel can be formulated. The new birth is not an evangel in any sense. It makes a demand he has no means of meeting.

For one like Nicodemus, expecting to enter the kingdom by physical generation, it would be quite a blow to demand spiritual regeneration. Men are utterly helpless in regard to their physical generation. They can do no more to accomplish their spiritual regeneration. It is the sovereign work of God's spirit.

Searching as the figure is, it does not probe nearly so deeply into human helplessness as the truth for the present economy of God's grace. Now, if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation (2Cor 5:17). In spirit, we skip the era of the kingdom, the renascence, and enter the new creation, over a thousand years later. A new birth will fit them for a life on earth during the millennial eon. The new creation fits us for our celestial destiny. They will receive a rejuvenation of the faculties, we will be changed at the resurrection and receive powers and capacities far beyond our present possibilities. Regeneration keeps company with repentance and baptism. The new creation accompanies the dispensation of the conciliation (2Cor 5:18).

A. E. Knoch

#7 - This one is wide open to interpretation. Did Jesus swear? Yes He did. But not in English.

CLV Mt 3:7 Now, perceiving many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming onto his baptism, he said to them, "Progeny of vipers! any intimates to you to be fleeing from the impending indignation?

CLV Mt 12:34 "Progeny of vipers! How can you be speaking what is good, being wicked? For out of the superabundance of the heart the mouth is speaking.


snakes were a real problem in that part of the world. To call someone a snake or "viper" was pretty extreme. Definitely a curse word.

#13 - She will presume to tell us how to pray.

In English the word "should" is used by someone who is trying to impose his/her values onto another. Kinda like a bully tries to effect their own version of "right behavior" onto his/her victim.

I suggest that she "should" read the bible for herself and she "should" get some real training instead of this make-believe stuff.

#20 - Another verse intended for the Jews. The dogs and pigs, in this verse, mean the gentiles. Jesus came for the Jews alone.

#24 - I always find it amusing when a false teacher/prophets talks about false teachers/prophets. Their own definitions always most certainly exclude their words from this band of marauders.

I would say that the Scriptures covers this subject nicely and all one has to do to prepare oneself is to read the Book.

#25 - A very interesting point. I wonder how many times this poster has "healed the sick and raised the dead." Casting out demons is alot easier, as it can be faked with the right equipment and companions.

There is a long list of Christian writers who pride themselves in their own mediocrity. Add this one to the list is not a problem.

The main snag with so many of these interpretations is the Bibles they use. As long as they are using English version that are based on the Modern Manuscripts their interpretation will always be wrong. Over the 1500 year period many meanings to these words have been added.

These writers tend to think of the dictionary as their own personal smorgasbord of meanings to the words in the Scriptures. And, of course, this comes from a lack of training.

8/14/2016 1:09:24 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

louie6332
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,076)
Falkville, AL
75, joined Nov. 2011


BigD, you say: “CLV Lk 22:19: And, taking bread, giving thanks, He breaks it and gives to them, saying, ‘Take. This is My body, given for your sake. This do for a recollection of Me.’ So Jesus Himself defined this act as a Remembrance. Nothing more.”

Nothing more? You are putting your words into the mouth of Christ, while pretending to be following Christ. Only hypocrites do that. One can turn the consecrated bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ and offer it up while doing it in remembrance of him. You are saying that it cannot be a remembrance, if the transubstantiation actually takes place, but that is false. Christ did not say of the consecrated bread and wine: This "represents" my body and blood, those words are missing from the mouth of Christ, and you cannot just stick them into his mouth. He did not say: "Ah, I was just kidding, this is not really my body and blood, it just represents my body and blood". Oh, and eating and drinking unworthy will not send you to Hell.

You are twisting yourself into knots in a desperate effort to reject the literal meaning of what Christ said.

When in doubt, you correlate like passages to find the true meaning. When Christ said: "My body is real bread and my blood real drink, unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you will not have life in you." He did not add: "Do this [eat my body and drink my blood] in remembrance of me". You are remembering Christ when you do this, but that does not negate the fact that you are eating his flesh and drinking his blood. Eating bread and drinking wine does not give eternal life. When you eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood you eat and drink to eternal life, when you do it unworthily you eat and drink to your damnation. This is not true of eating bread and drinking wine. In fact, it is not possible to eat bread and drink wine unworthy. Eating bread is not a sin and cannot send you to Hell. The Consecrated bread and wine are something more than just bread and wine.
There is no way to get out of this.



Louie

8/14/2016 1:22:45 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

prophetic774
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,593)
Winter Haven, FL
66, joined Feb. 2011


Quote from louie6332 Nowhere in the Bible does Christ order the Apostles to write a Bible or name the Bible as sole authority. In fact, the word “Bible” is found nowhere in any of the books of the Bible. Louie


HOWEVER, JESUS SAYS, "SANCTIFY THEM BY THE **TRUTH**; YOUR **WORD IS TRUTH**!"

Colossians 1:4-6: We have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love you have for all the saints--the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the **WORD OF TRUTH**, the **GOSPEL** that has come to you!

John 15:9,10" Jesus says, "As the Father **LOVED** Me, so I have **LOVED** you!! Now remain in My **LOVE**. **IF YOU OBEY MY COMMANDS**, you will remain in My **LOVE**, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His **LOVE**!"

John 14:21,23: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and obeys them, he is the one who **LOVES** Me! He who loves Me will be **LOVED** by My Father, and I will **LOVE** him....If anyone **LOVES** Me, he will obey My teaching. My Father will **LOVE** him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him!!"

Acts 17:11: Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and EXAMINED the SCRIPTURES *EVERY DAY*!!

I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} **IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS**. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But **IF** anyone obeys His Word, God's love is truly made complete in him.

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on *EARTH has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

2 Timothy 3:16; 4:2: All Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God my be thoroughly equipped for every good work...**PREACH THE WORD**; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction.

James 1:22: Do not merely listen to the Word, and so deceive yourselves. **DO WHAT IT SAYS*...But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, *BUT DOING IT*--he will be blessed in what he does!!

READ GOD'S WORD DAILY AND THEN DO WHAT IT SAYS!!

Psalm 119 has 176 verses praising the **WORD OF GOD**. The Old Testament had 613 laws and the New Covenant of Jesus and His love has about 400 commands of LOVE which Psalm 119 also applies to. Some of my favorite verses is Psalm 119 are:

119:105: Your Word is a Lamp to my feet and a Light for my path.
119:97: Oh how I love your law, I meditate on it all day long.
119:148: My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I meditate on your promises.
119:169: Give me understanding according to your Word.
119:11: I have hidden your Word in my heart that I might not sin against You.

Deuteronomy 4:2: God says, "Do not *ADD* to what I command you and do not *SUBTRACT* from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you!!"

Deuteronomy 18:17-19: The Lord says, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. If anyone does not listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My Name, I Myself will call Him to account."

John 14:23,24: Jesus says, "If anyone *LOVES* Me, He will obey My teaching. My Father will *LOVE* Him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me will not obey My teaching."

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the words of this prophecy of this Book: If anyone *ADDS* anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been born again.. through the Living and Enduring Word of God. All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the Word that was preached to you.

Ephesians 1:13: You were included in Christ when you heard the **WORD OF TRUTH**, the Gospel of your salvation!!

John 17:17 Jesus prayed to His Father, "Sanctify them by the **TRUTH**; Your**WORD IS TRUTH**!"




8/14/2016 5:09:03 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

irishrose0906
Dublin, OH
53, joined Mar. 2013


Quote from bigd9832:
This irish rose has popped up from no where and is now spinning stories about what out Bible is supposed to mean.

A favorite trick among these magicians here is to use many English versions to confuse and confound anyone who reads it. The NIV, Amplified Version, KJV are among her list. The problem is, all of these English versions are based on Modern manuscripts. There are plenty to choose from. Over 15,000. And they all come from about 1500 ad. That's about 1500 years after Jesus left. Alot can happen in that time.

So she uses whatever English version will bend to her will, and her interpretation.

I will not waste my time with all of these 38 points. And I am not saying everything she says is wrong. But much of it is.

#2 - Born again is a phrase that Jesus said to the Jews, not the Gentiles.

We have found an unholy temple, an unspiritual priesthood, and now we are introduced to an ignorant teacher! Intense application to a single text book for a whole life had not taught him the elements of the truth! Nicodemus, however, was impressed with the Lord's works, little as he understood His words. Like the rest, he takes literally what is figurative. He should have known from Ezekiel, the prophet, that Israel could not enter the kingdom without a new spirit (Ezek 36:26).

Spiritual regeneration, the one imperative condition, apart from which the kingdom cannot be entered, is utterly beyond his erudition. All that he considered vital was physical relationship with the favored nation.

The Lord did not give out regeneration as good news, but as bad news. This is not the gospel, even for the Circumcision. The evangel is always concerned with God and His Christ, never with man and his needs or efforts. Of the latter nothing good can be said, no evangel can be formulated. The new birth is not an evangel in any sense. It makes a demand he has no means of meeting.

For one like Nicodemus, expecting to enter the kingdom by physical generation, it would be quite a blow to demand spiritual regeneration. Men are utterly helpless in regard to their physical generation. They can do no more to accomplish their spiritual regeneration. It is the sovereign work of God's spirit.

Searching as the figure is, it does not probe nearly so deeply into human helplessness as the truth for the present economy of God's grace. Now, if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation (2Cor 5:17). In spirit, we skip the era of the kingdom, the renascence, and enter the new creation, over a thousand years later. A new birth will fit them for a life on earth during the millennial eon. The new creation fits us for our celestial destiny. They will receive a rejuvenation of the faculties, we will be changed at the resurrection and receive powers and capacities far beyond our present possibilities. Regeneration keeps company with repentance and baptism. The new creation accompanies the dispensation of the conciliation (2Cor 5:18).

A. E. Knoch

#7 - This one is wide open to interpretation. Did Jesus swear? Yes He did. But not in English.

CLV Mt 3:7 Now, perceiving many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming onto his baptism, he said to them, "Progeny of vipers! any intimates to you to be fleeing from the impending indignation?

CLV Mt 12:34 "Progeny of vipers! How can you be speaking what is good, being wicked? For out of the superabundance of the heart the mouth is speaking.


snakes were a real problem in that part of the world. To call someone a snake or "viper" was pretty extreme. Definitely a curse word.

#13 - She will presume to tell us how to pray.

In English the word "should" is used by someone who is trying to impose his/her values onto another. Kinda like a bully tries to effect their own version of "right behavior" onto his/her victim.

I suggest that she "should" read the bible for herself and she "should" get some real training instead of this make-believe stuff.

#20 - Another verse intended for the Jews. The dogs and pigs, in this verse, mean the gentiles. Jesus came for the Jews alone.

#24 - I always find it amusing when a false teacher/prophets talks about false teachers/prophets. Their own definitions always most certainly exclude their words from this band of marauders.

I would say that the Scriptures covers this subject nicely and all one has to do to prepare oneself is to read the Book.

#25 - A very interesting point. I wonder how many times this poster has "healed the sick and raised the dead." Casting out demons is alot easier, as it can be faked with the right equipment and companions.

There is a long list of Christian writers who pride themselves in their own mediocrity. Add this one to the list is not a problem.

The main snag with so many of these interpretations is the Bibles they use. As long as they are using English version that are based on the Modern Manuscripts their interpretation will always be wrong. Over the 1500 year period many meanings to these words have been added.

These writers tend to think of the dictionary as their own personal smorgasbord of meanings to the words in the Scriptures. And, of course, this comes from a lack of training.



You are really quite arrogant aren't you? I did not assume to tell you how to pray. Jesus clearly tells you how to do that. I just copied and pasted. If you have a problem with words of Christ then I suggest you take it up with him. The things I posted are all listed in the bible and things Jesus asked of his disciples. If you aren't a disciple of Christ then they will be of no value to you. But if you are a follower of Christ these things he encourages us to strive for.

8/14/2016 5:22:49 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,676)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Actually, louie, it is you who are taking away from the words of Christ. You posted everything on the Communion except where He says "

CLV Lk 22:19 And, taking bread, giving thanks, He breaks it and gives to them, saying, "Take. This is My body, given for your sakes. This do for a recollection of Me."

Are you saying that I made up the phrase "This do for a recollection of Me?"

What does that mean. Louie? And why did you leave it out?

Sounds pretty suspicious to me.

But then there is nowhere in the Bible where it says that the bread and wine are literally turned into His body and blood. So it seems you are the one who is making things up and adding to His Words.

Only hypocrites do that. Right louie?

I know He was not talking about the bigD, so it is of little interest to you.

The Catholic church is corrupt.

8/14/2016 5:25:39 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,676)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from irishrose0906:
You are really quite arrogant aren't you? I did not assume to tell you how to pray. Jesus clearly tells you how to do that. I just copied and pasted. If you have a problem with words of Christ then I suggest you take it up with him. The things I posted are all listed in the bible and things Jesus asked of his disciples. If you aren't a disciple of Christ then they will be of no value to you. But if you are a follower of Christ these things he encourages us to strive for.


Arrogant?

I study the Scriptures. Not your particular form of religion. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

These things might be in the Bible but not the way you interpret them.

Here is a verse you might want to read for yourself...

CLV Mt 7:1 "Do not judge, lest you may be judged,

You are not my judge.

8/14/2016 7:54:09 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
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64, joined Feb. 2008


Quote from bigd9832:
Actually, louie, it is you who are taking away from the words of Christ. You posted everything on the Communion except where He says "

CLV Lk 22:19 And, taking bread, giving thanks, He breaks it and gives to them, saying, "Take. This is My body, given for your sakes. This do for a recollection of Me."

Are you saying that I made up the phrase "This do for a recollection of Me?"

What does that mean. Louie? And why did you leave it out?

Sounds pretty suspicious to me.

But then there is nowhere in the Bible where it says that the bread and wine are literally turned into His body and blood. So it seems you are the one who is making things up and adding to His Words.

Only hypocrites do that. Right louie?

I know He was not talking about the bigD, so it is of little interest to you.

The Catholic church is corrupt.


The Mass is both a changing of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ, and a recollection. There is no reason why it can't be both.

8/14/2016 10:22:06 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,676)
Chicago, IL
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Sorry. I don't compromise the Truth.

Jesus said it's for a remembrance. He didn't say it literally changes.

Catholics lost this round.

The Catholic church is corrupt.

8/14/2016 11:22:37 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
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Jesus said that it literally changes when He said "my flesh is real food and my blood real drink" (John 6:55).

8/15/2016 1:18:12 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

prophetic774
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,593)
Winter Haven, FL
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THE FATHER LOVES HIS FAITHFUL SAINTS JUST AS MUCH AS HE LOVES JESUS!!

John 17:23: Jesus says to His Father, "You sent Me and have **LOVED THEM** even as you **LOVED** Me!!"

JESUS LOVES HIS FAITHFUL SAINTS JUST AS MUCH AS THE FATHER LOVES HIM!!

John 15:9,10,12,13: "Jesus says, "As the Father **LOVED** Me, so I have **LOVED** you!! Now remain in My **LOVE**. **IF** you obey My commands, you will remain in My **LOVE**, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His **LOVE**... My command is this: **LOVE** each other as I have **LOVED** you! Greater **LOVE** has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends!"

John 14:21,23: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and obeys them, he is the one who **LOVES** Me! He who **LOVES** Me will be **LOVED** by My Father, and I will **LOVE** him....If anyone **LOVES** Me, he will obey My teaching. My Father will **LOVE** him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him!!"

WHAT'S **LOVE**GOT TO DO WITH IT??

I Peter 1:22: "Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere **LOVE** for your brothers, **LOVE** one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again... through the living and enduring Word of God!

I Corinthians 13:2,4-8: If I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not **LOVE** I am nothing...**LOVE** is patient, **LOVE** is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. **LOVE** does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. **LOVE** never fails!!"

John 13:34: Jesus says, "A NEW command I give you: **LOVE** one another As I have **LOVED** you, so you must **LOVE** one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples."

Matthew 28:19.20” Jesus commands, “Go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to *OBEY EVERYTHING* I have commanded you!” {See I John 2:3-5}

EVERYTHING would also include all the other commands in God's inspired Word from Acts to Revelation as per 2 Timothy 3:16: 4:2: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work...Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction."

If we really **LOVE** our brothers and sister in Christ we will lovingly teach them to obey all the approximately 400 commands of the NT with **LOVE** in the hope of countless eternal rewards when Jesus comes with great power with all His angels.

Revelation 22:112: Jesus says, "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!?

Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, For the Son of Man is going to come in His **FATHER'S GLORY WITH HIS ANGELS**, and **THEN** He will reward each person according to what he has done."

Ephesians 4:15: "Speaking the Truth in **LOVE**, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the Head, that is, Christ! From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in **LOVE**, as each part does its work."

Ephesians 3:17-19: "I pray that you, being rooted and established in **LOVE** may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the **LOVE** of Christ, and to know this **LOVE** that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God!!"



8/15/2016 6:21:09 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,676)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


CLV Lk 22:19 And, taking bread, giving thanks, He breaks it and gives to them, saying, "Take. This is My body, given for your sakes. This do for a recollection of Me."

It seems ludlow just doesn't want to acknowledge that Jesus said it was a remembrance only.

Oh well. Some Catholic insist on wearing blinders. Kinda like horses do.

The Catholic church lies.

8/15/2016 8:07:15 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

louie6332
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Falkville, AL
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BigD, you say of (Lk 22:19):” It seems Ludlow just doesn't want to acknowledge that Jesus said it was a remembrance only.”

BigD, where is the word “only” in this passage? STOP putting words in Our Lord’s mouth. Men of good will do not do that. Of course, nobody has ever accused you of being a man of Good Will. And how could Our Lord have said that it WAS a remembrance when he had not shed his blood yet? He was not crucified until the next day.

Stop tying yourself into complicated logical knots in an attempt to avoid what Our Lord Said, you already look like a pretzel.

Louie

8/15/2016 8:45:36 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  
cupocheer
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Assumption, IL
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One thing (well, perhaps a lot more) I have noticed it that posters tend to comment without understanding what they are commenting about it try to be catty, as if they know more than anyone else.

I have been somewhat guilty of those things myself, on rare occasions but I tend to allow God's Word speak through me not vice versa.

@Louie -- In bigd's, in the quote of his you cited, where did bigd indicate he was making a direct biblical quote? I read the "only" at the end of the sentence as Bigd's 'opinion'.

@ Louie -- Why do you view Lud's belief about "my flesh, my blood" being non-biblical? Could he simply have misinterpreted the scripture and needs gentle guidance to steer him onto the right translation?

Are we, as Christians, supposed to attempt and demean others of faith who don't believe as we do, or are we supposed to help others 'see the truth' in God's Word?

@ Louie -- How did Jesus raise the dead? How did Jesus make the blind to see? How did Jesus walk on water? How did Jesus turn water to wine? How did Jesus foresee the destruction of Jerusalem nearly 70 years before it happened? How did Jesus know to tell Judas 'it was time' for him to betray him? Come on, Louie, talk about pretzels

@ LUD -- Jesus said, "do this in REMEMBERENCE of me" -- in other words -- remember me in this manner of thanksgiving: this broken piece of bread is as my body, eat it -- this cup of wine is as my blood, drink -- I give my flesh for the life of the world -- it's fairly easy to comprehend. (1 Corinthians 25)

Then in John 6:53-55 It is written: I tell you the truth, unless you eat of the flesh (believe that he died for our sins) of the Son of Man (Jesus) and drink of his blood (Word of God) , you have no life in you. (no salvation & eternal life)

God does not create confusion.

8/16/2016 12:19:12 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,676)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


I can see that my logic may seem complex to you, simple minded person. But it is really very simple.

The Catholics ignore...

CLV Lk 22:19 And, taking bread, giving thanks, He breaks it and gives to them, saying, "Take. This is My body, given for your sakes. This do for a recollection of Me."

It's just that simple.

The Catholic church is corrupt.

Again, very simple.

8/16/2016 6:00:27 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

followjesusonly
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Kingman, AZ
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online now!


Quote from louie6332:
BigD, you say of (Lk 22:19):” It seems Ludlow just doesn't want to acknowledge that Jesus said it was a remembrance only.”

BigD, where is the word “only” in this passage? STOP putting words in Our Lord’s mouth. Men of good will do not do that. Of course, nobody has ever accused you of being a man of Good Will. And how could Our Lord have said that it WAS a remembrance when he had not shed his blood yet? He was not crucified until the next day.

Stop tying yourself into complicated logical knots in an attempt to avoid what Our Lord Said, you already look like a pretzel.

Louie


Louie, why don't you obey "Our Lord" and stop calling priests, "Father"?

"Call no man your father upon the earth: "for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

Take Him literally, Louie, like you tell everyone else.

8/16/2016 6:03:30 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,096)
Panama City, FL
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FJO, if calling mere men "father" is so terrible, why do you allow your children to call you that?

8/16/2016 7:06:20 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

prophetic774
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,593)
Winter Haven, FL
66, joined Feb. 2011


FJO has clarified one of the ridiculous Urantia fairy tales by these quotes:

Yes, Jesus is God's only begotten Son, but He's not the only one.

33:1.1 Our Creator Son is the personification of the 611,121st original concept of infinite identity of simultaneous origin in the Universal Father and the Eternal Son. The Michael of Nebadon is the “only-begotten Son” personalizing this 611,121st universal concept of divinity and infinity.

Don't go nuts over the "only begotten Son" thing. It means different things to different levels of understanding. There are 700,000 "only begotten" Creator Sons. Jesus is one of them. They are all divine beings. They are all God, just like Jesus.{?????}

BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY???

Revelation 17:14 They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers!!

Jesus our Lord and Savior is called the Lamb of God 30 times in Revelation.

John 14:6 Jesus says, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me!!"

Hebrew 1;6-8: When God brings His firstborn into the world He says, "Let all God's angels worship Him!" In speaking of the angels He says, "He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire." but about the Son He says, "Your throne O ***GOD***, will last for ever and ever!"

Revelation 22:8,9: John said, "I fell down to worship the angel who had been showing them to me. But the angel said to me, "Do not do it!! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all that keep the words of this book. **WORSHIP GOD!!"

Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, " **ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and **ON EARTH** has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations...teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you **ALWAYS**, to the very end of the age!!"

Ephesians 1:19-23: That power is like the working of His mighty strength, which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the **PRESENT AGE** but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under His feet and appointed Him to be ***HEAD*** over everything for the **CHURCH**, which is His body. the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!



8/16/2016 8:16:41 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,676)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


OK louie.

Two posts without the word "only." This will be the third. Try to keep up.

And you still refuse to admit that Jesus said...

"This do for a recollection of Me."

You are starting to sound like KB the insane.

The Catholic church is corrupt.

8/17/2016 11:55:49 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,096)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Holy Communion is both the literal Body and Blood of Jesus and a remembrance of Jesus. These are not contradictory terms.

A high school reunion is both a remembrance and a meeting with literally the people one went to school with. Symbols of one's classmates don't show up; the real classmates do.

8/17/2016 1:33:34 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

prophetic774
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,593)
Winter Haven, FL
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All born again Christians believe that Luther didn't understand that REWARDS are 100 percent earned; whereas **FAITH** is 100% Free!! Luther also wrongly believed that James and Revelation were not part of God's Word.

TNT and the Roman Catholics wrongly believe that we are saved by our good works????

HOW ARE WE SAVED BY **FAITH** WHICH IS THE **FREE GIFT** OF GOD??

Hebrews 11:1,3,6,9,10,13-16: Now **FAITH** is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see...By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what is visible... And without **FAITH** it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him. ... By **FAITH** Abraham made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God...All these people were still living by **FAITH** when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were strangers on earth. People who say such things show they are looking for country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have opportunity to return. Instead, they were looking for a better country--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them! {The New Jerusalem with its New heaven and New Earth. as per Revelation 21:1-5}

Romans 3:22-25,27,28: This righteousness from God comes through **FAITH** in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God promised Him as a sacrifice of atonement , through **FAITH** in His blood!!....Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded . On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but that of **FAITH**! For we maintain that a man is justified by **FAITH** apart from observing the law!

Romans 4:6-8: David says the same thing when he speaks of blessedness of the man whom God credits righteousness apart from works! {In Psalm 32:1,2:} "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will **NEVER** count against him!"

Isaiah 53:5,6: But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all!!

Romans 10:17: **FAITH** comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the Word of Christ!

Galatians 5:5,6: By **FAITH** we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The **ONLY THING** that counts is **FAITH** expressing itself through Love!

Colossians 1:4-6: We have heard of your **FAITH** in Christ Jesus and of the LOVE you have for all the saints--the **FAITH** and LOVE that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the Word of Truth, the Gospel that has come to you!

Ephesians 2:4-10: But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by Grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might show the incomparable riches of His GRACE, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by Grace you have been saved, through **FAITH**--and this is NOT from yourselves, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**--not by works; so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do!

John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away...And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise them up at the Last Day!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED** them!!"




8/18/2016 7:47:00 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

prophetic774
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,593)
Winter Haven, FL
66, joined Feb. 2011


Quote from ludlowlowell:

It is relatively easy to lose one salvation. All it takes is one mortal sin.

BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY???

Romans 829-33,35,38,39: For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son...And those He predestined, He also called; those He called , He also justified; those He justified He also glorified. What shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His Son but gave Him up for us all--how will He not also give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns... Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?... For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels or demons, neither the present or the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord!!

Romans 4:7,8: Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will **NEVER** count against him!"

John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away...And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise them up at the Last Day!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED** them!!"

Hebrews 10:11-18: Day after day every priest performs his religious duties again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this Priest had offered for all time **ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS**, He sat down at the right hand of God... Because by **ONE SACRIFICE** He has made ***PERFECT FOREVER*** those who are being made holy. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord. I will put My laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." The he adds" Their sins and lawless acts I will remember **NO MORE**." And when these have been forgiven, there is **NO LONGER** any sacrifice for sin!!

Ephesians 1:5-8: In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His **GLORIOUS GRACE**, which He has freely given us in the One He loves. In Him we have **REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, the **FORGIVENESS OF SINS**, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding!




8/18/2016 8:45:24 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (12,303)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from ludlowlowell:
FJO, if calling mere men "father" is so terrible, why do you allow your children to call you that?


Your argument about whether or not calling priests "Father" "is so terrible," is with Jesus, not me. Jesus is the one who tells you not to do it, not me. Jesus is the one who says you do not love God because you refuse to obey Him, not me, and you have no idea what I allow with regard to my children. You are a liar when you suggest otherwise.

8/18/2016 10:03:16 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,096)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Is calling a priest "father" the worst sin one can commit? It certainly seems to be the only sin you preach against.

8/18/2016 11:35:13 PM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,676)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from ludlowlowell... Holy Communion is both the literal Body and Blood of Jesus and a remembrance of Jesus. These are not contradictory terms.
**********************************************************************************

No one said they were "contradictory terms." That would be another Straw-man argument.

Jesus said it we were to do this as a remembrance. He didn't say anything about a "euchrist."

The Catholic church is corrupt.

8/19/2016 7:05:00 AM Satan and the Crucifiction of Jesus Christ  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,096)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Of course Jesus didn't say "Eucharist". "Eucharist" is a Greek word, and Jesus spoke Aramaic, not Greek. And He didn't say "pope" either---"pope" is an English word. Same with "Hell", "Purgatory", and "Limbo". But He taught all these concepts in Aramaic.