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2/13/2017 9:41:05 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
61, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
The Carthars that were called before the inquisition were at least raised Catholic. The Carthars were notorious for poisonining orthodox Catholics' wells, burning down orthodox Catholics' crops, and burning down Catholic churches. They were the terrorists of the day ("There is nothing new under the sun" --Ecclesiastes 1:9).


I don't accept bible verses as THERE is nothing about it in there.
You need to post proof of what you said and you just can't.
The Cathars WERE NOT CATHOLIC.


Here's the scoopy do on that, and ALL you spout in your post is bullshit Lud, as usual.


http://www.cathar.info




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CATHAR TERMINOLOGY

A Cathar Glossary

The Cathars were a religious group who appeared in Europe in the eleventh century, their origins something of a mystery though there is reason to believe their ideas came from Persia or the Byzantine Empire, by way of the Balkans and Northern Italy. Records from the Roman Catholic Church mention them under various names and in various places. Catholic theologians debated with themselves for centuries whether Cathars were Christian heretics or whether they were not Christians at all. The question is apparently still open. Roman Catholics still refer to Cathar belief as "the Great Heresy" though the official Catholic position is that Catharism is not Christian at all.

The religion flourished in an area often referred to as the Languedoc, broadly bordered by the Mediterannean Sea, the Pyrenees, and the rivers Garonne, Tarn and Rhône -— and corresponding to the new French region of Occitanie.

As Dualists, Cathars believed in two principles, a good creator god and his evil adversary (much like God and Satan of mainstream Christianity). Cathars called themselves simply Christians; their neighbours distinguished them as "Good Christians". The Catholic Church called them Albigenses, or less frequently. Cathars.

Cathars maintained a Church hierarchy and practiced a range of ceremonies, but rejected any idea of priesthood or the use of church buildings. They divided into ordinary believers who led ordinary medieval lives and an inner Elect of Parfaits (men) and Parfaites (women) who led extremely ascetic lives yet still worked for their living - generally in itinerant manual trades like weaving. Cathars believed in reincarnation and refused to eat meat or other animal products. They were strict about biblical injunctions - notably those about living in poverty, not telling lies, not killing and not swearing oaths.

Basic Cathar Tenets led to some surprising logical implications. For example they largely regarded men and women as equals, and had no doctrinal objection to contraception, euthanasia or suicide. In some respects the Cathar and Catholic Churches were polar opposites. For example the Cathar Church taught that all non-procreative sex was better than any procreative sex. The Catholic Church taught - as it still teaches - exactly the opposite. Both positions produced interesting results. Following their tenet, Catholics concluded that masturbation was a far greater sin than rape (as mediaeval penitentials confirm). Following their principles, Cathars could deduce that sexual intercourse between man and wife was more culpable than homosexual sex. (Catholic propaganda on this supposed Cathar proclivity gave us the word bugger, from Bougre, one of the many names for medieval Gnostic Dualists)

In the Languedoc, known at the time for its high culture, tolerance and liberalism, the Cathar religion took root and gained more and more adherents during the twelfth century. By the early thirteenth century Catharism was probably the majority religion in the area. Many Catholic texts refer to the danger of it replacing Catholisism completely.

Catharism was supported or at least tolerated by the nobility as well as the common people. This was yet another annoyance to the Roman Church which considered the feudal system to be divinely ordained as the Natural Order (Cathars disliked the feudal system because it depended on oath taking). In open debates with leading Catholic theologians Cathars seem to have come out on top. This was embarrassing for the Roman Church, not least because they had fielded the best professional preachers in Europe against what they saw as a collection of uneducated weavers and other manual workers. A number of Catholic priests had become Cathar adherents (Catharism was a religion that seems to have appealed especially to the theologically literate). Worse, the Catholic Church was being held up to public ridicule (some of the richest men in Christendom, bejewelled, vested in finery, and preaching poverty, provided an irresistible target even to contemporary Catholics in the Languedoc). Worst yet, Cathars declined to pay tithes to the Catholic Church. As one senior Churchman observed of the Cathar movement "if it had not been cut back by the swords of the faithful I think it would have corrupted the whole of Europe."

The Cathar view of the Catholic Church was as bleak as the Catholic Church's view of the Cathar Church. On the Cathar side it manifested itself in ridiculing Catholic doctrine and practices, and characterising the Catholic Church as the "Church of Wolves". Catholics accused Cathars of heresy or apostasy and said they belonged to the "Synagogue of Satan". The Catholic side created some striking propaganda. When the propaganda proved unsuccessful, there was only one option left - a crusade - the Albigensian Crusade.

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2/13/2017 9:55:18 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
61, joined Jun. 2014


Continued....

The head of the Catholic Church, Pope Innocent III, called a formal Crusade against the Cathars of the Languedoc, appointing a series of military leaders to head his Holy Army. The first was a Cistercian abbot (Arnaud Amaury), now best remembered for his command at Béziers: "Kill them all. God will know his own". The second was Simon de Montfort now remembered as the father of another Simon de Montfort, a prominent figure in English parliamentary history. The war against the Cathars of the Languedoc continued for two generations. In the later phases the Kings of France would take over as leaders of the crusade, which thus became a Royal Crusade. Among the many victims who lost their lives were two kings: Peter II King of Aragon cut down at the Battle of Muret in 1213 and Louis VIII King of France who succumbed to dysentery on his way home to Paris in 1226.

From 1208, a war of terror was waged against the indigenous population of the Languedoc and their rulers: Raymond VI of Toulouse, Raymond-Roger Trencavel, Raymond Roger of Foix in the first generation and Raymond VII of Toulouse, Raymond Trencavel II, and Roger Bernard II of Foix in the second generation. During this period an estimated half-million Languedoc men, women and children were massacred, Catholics as well as Cathars. The Crusaders killed the locals indiscriminately - in line with the the famous injunction recorded by a Cistercian chronicler as being spoken by his fellow Cistercian, the Abbot in command of the Crusader army at Béziers.

Arms of the medieval Counts of Toulouse - still seen everywhere in the Languedocthis striking monument to the Cathars may be seen in an Aire on the main road between Narbonne and CarcassonneThe Counts of Toulouse and their allies were dispossessed and humiliated, and their lands later annexed to France. Educated and tolerant Languedoc rulers were replaced by relative barbarians; Dominic Guzmán (later Saint Dominic) founded the Dominican Order. Within a few years the first papal Inquisition, manned by the Dominicans, was established explicitly to wipe out the last vestiges of resistance.

Persecutions of Languedoc Jews and other minorities were initiated; the culture of the troubadours was lost as their cultured patrons were reduced to wandering refugees known as faidits. Their characteristic concept of "paratge", a whole sophisticated world-view, was almost destroyed, leaving us a pale imitation in our idea of chivalry. Lay learning was discouraged and the reading of the bible became a capital crime. Tithes were enforced. The Languedoc started its long economic decline from the richest region of Europe to become the poorest region in France; and the language of the area, Occitan, began its descent from the foremost literary language in Europe to a regional dialect, disparaged by the French as a patois.

At the end of the extermination of the Cathars, the Roman Church had proof that a sustained campaign of genocide can work. It also had the precedent of an internal Crusade within Christendom, and the machinery of the first modern police state that could be reconstructed for the Spanish Inquisition, and again for later Inquisitions and genocides. Chateaubriand referred to the crusade as "this abominable episode of our history". Voltaire observed that "there was never anything as unjust as the war against the Albigensians".

this striking monument to the Cathars may be seen in an Aire on the main road between Narbonne and Carcassonnethis striking monument to the Cathars may be seen in an Aire on the main road between Narbonne and CarcassonneCatharism is often said to have been completely eradicated soon after the end of the fourteenth century. Yet there are more than a few vestiges even today, apart from the enduring memory of Cathar "Martyrdom" and the ruins of the famous "Cathar castles", including the spectacular castle at Carcassonne and the hilltop Château of Montségur ( The Name in Occitan. Click here to find out more about occitan. Montsegùr).

Today, there are still many echoes of influences from the Cathar period, from International geopolitics down to popular culture. There are even Cathars alive today, or at least people claiming to be modern Cathars. There are historical tours of Cathar sites and also a flourishing, if largely superficial, Cathar tourist industry in the Languedoc, and especially in the Aude département.

As we see the eight-hundredth anniversary of important events, more and more memorials are springing up on the sites of massacres, as at Les Casses, Lavaur, Minerve, and Montségur. There is also an increasing community of historians and other academics engaged in serious historical and other academic Cathar studies. Interestingly, to date, the deeper scholars have dug, the more they have vindicated Cathar claims to represent a survival of an important Gnostic strand of the Earliest Christian Church.

road sign in Soultagethis striking monument to the Cathars may be seen in an Aire on the main road between Narbonne and CarcassonneArguably just as interesting, Protestant ideas share much in common with Cathar ideas, and there is some reason to believe that early reformers were aware of the Cathar tradition. Even today some Protestant Churches claim a Cathar heritage. Tantalisingly, weavers were commonly accused of spreading Protestant ideas in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, just as their antecedents in the same trade had been accused of spreading Cathar ideas in Medieval times.

2/13/2017 10:03:22 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
61, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
The Carthars that were called before the inquisition were at least raised Catholic. The Carthars were notorious for poisonining orthodox Catholics' wells, burning down orthodox Catholics' crops, and burning down Catholic churches. They were the terrorists of the day ("There is nothing new under the sun" --Ecclesiastes 1:9).


This is pure bullshit.

2/13/2017 10:09:32 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (7,023)
Brantford, ON
62, joined Mar. 2012


Ruft :This is pure bullshit.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, you need to wear Wellingtons ( rubber boots? Not sure what Americans call them), its getting deep.

2/13/2017 11:44:33 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (224,554)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


We know what Wellington's are, Don. Just like the folks in Iowa know what flat farmland is.

2/14/2017 4:01:23 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from olderthandirt20:

If the RCC is so innocent why would the pope apologise for wrong doing?


Well Dirtbag maybe because the Church decided to do what very few institutions and individuals will do. Admit that their predecessors have sinned just like everyone else. NOW if you're so high above the heavens and choose to distance yourself from what your white ancestors did to the Indians and blacks of this nation, stealing their land, raping their women, destroying their families, and hanging them up from a tree like the meat that you hunt, then thats why its beyond your mental capacity in trying to understand what the Popes apology meant.

Quote from olderthandirt20:

I always wondered where the "kill them all and let god sort them out" that was popular in Vietnam came from.
Now I know.


Anyhoo spare us from the Vietnam lamented contemplation Your generation had all the promises of righting the wrongs done by our government there. You correctly resisted but at the same time, fumbled it all away on the 1 yard line.

What did your socially just generation do? You indulged yourselves with all the sex , all the free love all the drugs and all the rock and roll. All society got from your bad fruits was the Godless society you dreamed about during your LSD trips. And since then, the young for many generations that followed were screwed as a.result. Let that marinate with your raccoon stew and Vietnam war introspection lol?

2/14/2017 6:42:20 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

olderthandirt20
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,351)
Waldron, AR
70, joined Jul. 2014


Come back some day when you can have an intelligent conversation paul, minus all the assumptions and name calling. It makes you appear childish and petty.

2/14/2017 7:19:42 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from olderthandirt20:
Come back some day when you can have an intelligent conversation paul, minus all the assumptions and name calling. It makes you appear childish and petty.



Yeah, I knew that last post would ruffle your chicken feathers. Your generation has never been called out for all its utter failures to the present day state of affairs. However, there's a few of us around who knows wtf is up but will unfortunately be left to clean up after your mess. Even long after you've done the deep six.


And you're not the only member on here who's been on the receiving end of my less than charitable responses. You more than anyone living on that dang farm should be well aware that if you choose to sling mud from the pits of your personal hells, then don't expect to walk away pristine and polished. You'll be treated in the same way you treat others. It's a simple as that. You're only seeing your own ugliness when I respond to you, it's no wonder why you don't like what you read.

2/14/2017 7:55:38 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

olderthandirt20
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,351)
Waldron, AR
70, joined Jul. 2014


Opinions are like a$$holes everybody has one and yours just stinks more than average.
I do admit that you are entertaining in a crude and ineffectual way.
You are an amusing little troll.

2/14/2017 8:32:01 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from olderthandirt20:
Opinions are like a$$holes everybody has one and yours just stinks more than average.
I do admit that you are entertaining in a crude and ineffectual way.
You are an amusing little troll.


Sounds like something you copied and pasted then regurgitated from the web. You went from 70 to 7 years old real quick didn't you? lol

Now if you want to be entertained and amused, then by all means, be my guest and continue with your depraved, and deceitful slander. That way others can get a good laugh too reading along as you get skewered and smoked like one of the swine you just slaughtered on the homestead.

2/14/2017 12:16:40 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (7,023)
Brantford, ON
62, joined Mar. 2012


Quote from olderthandirt20:
Opinions are like a$$holes everybody has one and yours just stinks more than average.
I do admit that you are entertaining in a crude and ineffectual way.
You are an amusing little troll.


You have way more patience than I do.

I know people hate to block, but the paulrxp rant about Jews was enough for me. If some one talked like that in my home, I`d have them by the ear and out of my place. So am glad I have the block.

He is a nasty piece of trash, good riddance I figure.

I toast your attempt to make sense to him!



2/14/2017 1:35:46 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,095)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
online now!


Not all Catholics hate Jews. I don't. Were not Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and all the apostles Jews? Surely the Muslims represent a much greater threat to world peace and our freedom of religion than do the Jews.

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, and peace for the whole world."

--a sign I saw outside a synogogue in New Orleans

2/14/2017 1:55:29 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (7,023)
Brantford, ON
62, joined Mar. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Not all Catholics hate Jews. I don't. Were not Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and all the apostles Jews? Surely the Muslims represent a much greater threat to world peace and our freedom of religion than do the Jews.

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, and peace for the whole world."

--a sign I saw outside a synogogue in New Orleans


I never said you did lud. I was talking about that other guy, not sure his name as I blocked him.

Your opinion of woman though is more Islamic than most Christians in this day and age are.

2/15/2017 12:12:11 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,095)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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I try to treat women and men with respect, regardless of their religious beliefs.

2/15/2017 4:02:53 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,599)
Saint Petersburg, FL
69, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I try to treat women and men with respect, regardless of their religious beliefs.




Peace



[Edited 2/15/2017 4:04:06 AM ]

2/15/2017 8:30:54 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (7,023)
Brantford, ON
62, joined Mar. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I try to treat women and men with respect, regardless of their religious beliefs.


Why all those anti woman threads then?

Were you just temporarily jilted or something?

That is understandable , as long as one gets over it.

But you did a lot of very nasty threads about them Lud.

2/15/2017 10:08:09 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Not all Catholics hate Jews. I don't. Were not Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and all the apostles Jews? Surely the Muslims represent a much greater threat to world peace and our freedom of religion than do the Jews.

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, and peace for the whole world."

--a sign I saw outside a synogogue in New Orleans


True, Jesus, Mary and Joseph certainly were the Jews . The question would be then is that are the Jews now in Palestine descendants of the Holy Family, David and Moses?

2/15/2017 2:05:38 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,095)
Panama City, FL
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I understand that argument, Paul, and I subscribe to the sound Catholic doctrine of supersuccessionism (sp?) that the Catholic Church is the New Israel and the New Jerusalem, faithful Catholic Christians the New Jews, and the Mass the New Passover. But this excessive hatred many Catholics have had against the Jews down through the centuries is way out of line. True, they rejected their Messiah and King but the Jews certainly aren't the only ones who don't believe in Christ. They are small in number, always were, and whatever threat to Christian civilization they pose, past and present, is greatly exaggerated by many.

In an evil world, where the very existence of the Church is threatened by socialists, secularists, sexual libertines, Muslims, Communists, and Fundamentalist Protestants, to worry about the weak and miniscule Jewish threat would be like being in a swamp and worrying about the sand fleas and ignoring the alligators.

2/15/2017 7:34:41 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I understand that argument, Paul, and I subscribe to the sound Catholic doctrine of supersuccessionism (sp?) that the Catholic Church is the New Israel and the New Jerusalem, faithful Catholic Christians the New Jews, and the Mass the New Passover. But this excessive hatred many Catholics have had against the Jews down through the centuries is way out of line. True, they rejected their Messiah and King but the Jews certainly aren't the only ones who don't believe in Christ. They are small in number, always were, and whatever threat to Christian civilization they pose, past and present, is greatly exaggerated by many.

In an evil world, where the very existence of the Church is threatened by socialists, secularists, sexual libertines, Muslims, Communists, and Fundamentalist Protestants, to worry about the weak and miniscule Jewish threat would be like being in a swamp and worrying about the sand fleas and ignoring the alligators.



"Weak", "Minuscule" The Jewish population is less than 3% of the US Population. How exactly is it that 44% of the Supreme Court , is comprised of Jews? What's even more of a paradox is how some atheist kooks on here come to the rescue of these so-called persecuted chosen people of God.

If we're going to use your analogy, then that swamp you are referring to is being run by the fleas. It is the fleas that are at the top of the food chain, not the alligator

2/15/2017 9:40:55 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,095)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
online now!


No one can deny that the Jews,by and large, are highly intelligent and extremely skilled at business. Yes, they seem to be everywhere, yes, they seem to dominate certain industries, true, they don't believe in Christ, but they are a paper tiger, a minor irritation, certainly not nearly the threat the Muslims or Communists or secularists or Fundamentalist Protestants pose. Brazil is now 40% Fundamentalist Protestant, not 40% Jewish. Let us learn where the real threat is.

What has sustained Judaism all these centuries since Christ? Persecution of them! They rally to each other because of this. In today's world the error of Indifferentism (the belief that one religion is as good as another) has infected the Church. Ironically Judaism has the most to fear from Indifferentism---if one teligion is as good as another, why be a Jew, especially a passionate Jew? If one religion is as good as another, Goldstein and Shapiro will start eating ham sandwiches. (Does anyone know of any Jew who actually abstains from pork?)

Had medieval Catholics yawned at the Jews instead of getting so excited by the Jews, perhaps all, or most, of the Jews could have been converted long ago and could have become at least nominal Catholics.

2/16/2017 5:59:09 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
No one can deny that the Jews,by and large, are highly intelligent and extremely skilled at business. Yes, they seem to be everywhere, yes, they seem to dominate certain industries, true, they don't believe in Christ, but they are a paper tiger, a minor irritation, certainly not nearly the threat the Muslims or Communists or secularists or Fundamentalist Protestants pose. Brazil is now 40% Fundamentalist Protestant, not 40% Jewish. Let us learn where the real threat is.

What has sustained Judaism all these centuries since Christ? Persecution of them! They rally to each other because of this. In today's world the error of Indifferentism (the belief that one religion is as good as another) has infected the Church. Ironically Judaism has the most to fear from Indifferentism---if one teligion is as good as another, why be a Jew, especially a passionate Jew? If one religion is as good as another, Goldstein and Shapiro will start eating ham sandwiches. (Does anyone know of any Jew who actually abstains from pork?)

Had medieval Catholics yawned at the Jews instead of getting so excited by the Jews, perhaps all, or most, of the Jews could have been converted long ago and could have become at least nominal Catholics.


There's an identity ingrained among the Jews that unify them that other groups do not have or embrace. Persecution almost always unites a group, whether it be Jews, Christians, Blacks or homosexuals. The resistance against the persecution always takes priority over personal differences and struggles.

Medieval Christianity cannot have been expected to convert everyone. Just the conversion of King Constantine alone was enough in my opinion. It would have been unimaginable back then that a powerful pagan King of of a Roman Empire would have submitted to the power and glory of Christ and His Church.

And anyways, there were scores of Jews converted in Greece and Asia minor during and after the apostolic age. We already know that even in small numbers, the resourceful , revolutionary Jew will defy and resist anything it doesn't want to humble itself to no matter how he/she is treated, that includes almighty God. Time after time in the Old Testament, the disobedient Jew were worms even when they were the apple of Gods eyes.

Judaism is probably much closer to Islam than Christianity. Ask any Jew or Muslim and they probably will agree, ask a Christian and they will disagree. Both reject Christ, believe the Trinity is not monotheistic, both have very radical elements that almost detach all teachings of their faith to subjugate people not of their faith. The only major difference is the Jews could care less if they had the numbers. Even if you were converted to Judaism. If you were not born a Jew by maternal birth, you'll never be looked at or considered a Jew. Not the case with Islam.

I would be very cautious to think that just because Muslims are more of a threat to the Christians and the secular world, that by defacto the Jews will be staunch allies and have our best interests. That's exactly how the Zionist wants you to think and react.
Recall that before WWI the Jews were treated very well in Germany, they flourished there after fleeing Russia before the Bolsheviks. Look at how loyal the Jews were to the Germans after they were welcomed there. The events of WWI and II was the backlash. They weren't just persecuted for no reason. I don't agree that they should have been treated the way they were, but they should not have turned on nations who welcomed them and allowed them to prosper. They betrayed those that were good to them, and they paid a heavy price for it.

2/16/2017 7:32:25 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,095)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
online now!


Jews are, at present, our staunch allies in the jihad Muslims fight against the rest of the world because of the Israel situation. That could change. During the Middle Ages, especially in Spain, they tended to side with the Muslims. But in the ongoing centuries-old Christian-Muslim struggle, it doesn't really matter whose side the Jews are on---they are in such small number that they're hardly even a factor.

2/16/2017 7:55:50 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Jews are, at present, our staunch allies in the jihad Muslims fight against the rest of the world because of the Israel situation. That could change. During the Middle Ages, especially in Spain, they tended to side with the Muslims. But in the ongoing centuries-old Christian-Muslim struggle, it doesn't really matter whose side the Jews are on---they are in such small number that they're hardly even a factor.


For decades, that's how I viewed it. After Iraq II, that all changed, and I had to really remove all my biases and look at the situation objectively. What the American people were sold was that Israel was the lone democracy in the Middle East. A beacon of hope to help spread American ideas and democracy across the Muslim dominated region.

There is a reason why very few nations side with the Israelis. When you really see the big picture, the reason why America and Israel are allies has nothing to do with their Judeo/Christian roots, or even a shared resistance against militant Muslim forces. This alliance is the shared view that both nations must expand their influence. For America, it's anywhere and everywhere, for the Israelis it's all the lands that surround Israel.

America and Israels policy has done great damage to the Christian people in the Middle East. Christians who've occupied their lands almost as far back as the Middle Ages were forced to flee not because of the Muslim threat, the Muslim threat was the result of the vacuum that was created by preemptive wars instigated by America and the Israelis

So do not be consumed by the numbers of any people with regards to their power and influence. Oligarchs don't have the numbers, but they wrap their long tentacles and choke the life out of a nation even with their minuscule numbers in a blink of an eye. The Russians know this, and experienced it first hand after the Commie scum Soviet regime fell flat on its face.
The Israeli state is all about Israel, it serves no master. The sooner Americans come to grips with this reality, the better off we and the entire region will be.

2/16/2017 8:53:43 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

ludlowlowell
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The Jews are small in number and not much of a threat to anyone. The Muslims raid Christian villages throughout Africa and sell the people into slavery, often sexual slavery. I repeat my earlier analogy---never mind the sand fleas, concentrate on the alligators.

2/16/2017 9:15:17 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
The Jews are small in number and not much of a threat to anyone. The Muslims raid Christian villages throughout Africa and sell the people into slavery, often sexual slavery. I repeat my earlier analogy---never mind the sand fleas, concentrate on the alligators.


Lud mentioning Jews, Africa , slavery in the same sentence and painting the Jews in a positive light is a futile endeavor. Better read up on some history. Even the the Catholic Church will have a much more favorable record with regards to slavery in the New World after the Reformation.

Excerpts: "Slave trading was a major feature of Jewish economic life in Surinam which as a major stopping-off point in the triangular trade. Both North American and Caribbean Jews played a key role in this commerce: records of a slave sale in 1707 reveal that the ten largest Jewish purchasers (10,400 guilders) spent more than 25 percent of the total funds (38,605 guilders) exchanged."

source: http://www.rense.com/general69/invo.htm

Fleeing the so called brutal Inquisition of those bad ole Catholics, look at what they got involved in when they arrived in the new world:





[Edited 2/16/2017 9:16:01 AM ]

2/16/2017 11:20:01 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

ludlowlowell
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Did Jews engage in slave trading in the past? Maybe, but the important thing is they don't do it anymore. To blame the Jews for some slsve trading they did in 1707 is like still blaming the Catholic Church for having inquisitions five hundred years ago, or still blaming Americans for slavery, or still blaming modern Germany for the Nazi atrocities. All this is in the past.

But jihad, slave trading, stoning rape victims, terrorism, sharia law---these aren't things the Muslims did 500 years and are long forgotten. All of this still is very much a part of today's Muslim belief and practice. The Muslim threat is real. The Jewish threat is non-existent.

2/16/2017 11:24:50 AM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (7,023)
Brantford, ON
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Did Jews engage in slave trading in the past? Maybe, but the important thing is they don't do it anymore. To blame the Jews for some slsve trading they did in 1707 is like still blaming the Catholic Church for having inquisitions five hundred years ago, or still blaming Americans for slavery, or still blaming modern Germany for the Nazi atrocities. All this is in the past.

But jihad, slave trading, stoning rape victims, terrorism, sharia law---these aren't things the Muslims did 500 years and are long forgotten. All of this still is very much a part of today's Muslim belief and practice. The Muslim threat is real. The Jewish threat is non-existent.


I believe the saying : ' If Palestinians got rid of their weapons today, tomorrow there would be no war. If Israel got rid of their weapons today, tomorrow there would be no Israel".

Judaism does not encourage trying to get people to be like them.

But Islam and some sects of Christianity, do seek to enforce their will on all.

For once, I actually agree with lud.

2/16/2017 1:50:54 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  
paulrxp
Miami, FL
49, joined Aug. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Did Jews engage in slave trading in the past? Maybe, but the important thing is they don't do it anymore. To blame the Jews for some slsve trading they did in 1707 is like still blaming the Catholic Church for having inquisitions five hundred years ago, or still blaming Americans for slavery, or still blaming modern Germany for the Nazi atrocities. All this is in the past.



"some slave trading" is a HUGE understatement Lud. Think, reason. You yourself called their population "minuscule" How was so minuscule a population so heavily involved in the slave trade? That's number one.

Two, I've already addressed the Inquisition, and debunked that myth. So I don't have to apologize or defend it, even as a Catholic. We can discuss the Inquisition in depth if you like, but if you think the Church is any more guilty for that incident than executions concurring today, then you're going to realize that you're helping perpetuate false information against your own faith.

Three, I want you to speak to any Jew you know, reformed, conservative, or orthodox, tell them not to blame modern Germany for the Nazi atrocities. Tell them it's all in the past. See what happens and then report back to me.

Four, similarly, speak to any African American. Tell them the confederate flag should not offend them, since slavery isn't practiced any more anyways.

The point is this. You are not holding the Jews to the same standards of moral behavior as you are for other faiths, and ethnic groups. If anything they should be more accountable because they have done more things that we deem immoral for such a small , minuscule population that you always allude to.

And you can back up a few, and tell me about this Christian slave trade in Africa, I want to know about it, because it's news to me. Let me just say though, that as a Catholic, I will not defend any actions taken by non-Catholic Christians. Whether it be the African slave trade in the Americas, or any slave trade in Africa. You can ask our protestant friends to do that.

2/16/2017 4:20:10 PM Urantia Approach vs. Catholic Approach | Page 2  

ludlowlowell
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You want to know about Muslims selling Christians (mostly Catholics) into slavery in Nigeria, Sudan, and some places? Google it!

I don't care if the Jews traded slaves in 1707. I care that Muslims are doing it now!

Paul, if you want to be a good Catholic, learn who the Church's real enemies are.

I am not a Zionist or a Judaizer. I don't think the Jews are the chosen people of God---since Christ came Catholics, not Jews, are the chosen. The Catholic Church is the New Israel. I know the Jews commit atrocities in Palestine. I also know how the Palestinians commit many, many more.

Islam is barabaism. Judaism is too small and ineffectual to worry about.