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6/17/2017 9:44:10 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

progrocknic
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What year Saturn is it? Ion, right?




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6/17/2017 11:19:44 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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1995 Saturn SC2

An Ion would throw the timing chain, at the first hint of the 6,500rpm redline.

Eco-Tecs are junk

6/17/2017 12:03:20 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

progrocknic
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Ok, that explains it. I inherited a 2007 Ion from my parents. I love the plastic car, especially having owned nothing but Ford's. No wait, I owned a caprice with the L99 engine. It was an old police car. There's nothing better than doing 85 in the left lane and having cars getting out of your way because they think it might be a cop car.

The Ion definitely has some design flaws, especially with the front suspension. The engine doesn't seem too bad so far, with 70,000 miles on it. But I wish Saturn was still around. I want to buy nothing but plastic cars from now on.

6/17/2017 3:21:33 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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Quote from progrocknic:
Ok, that explains it. I inherited a 2007 Ion from my parents. I love the plastic car, especially having owned nothing but Ford's. No wait, I owned a caprice with the L99 engine. It was an old police car. There's nothing better than doing 85 in the left lane and having cars getting out of your way because they think it might be a cop car.

The Ion definitely has some design flaws, especially with the front suspension. The engine doesn't seem too bad so far, with 70,000 miles on it. But I wish Saturn was still around. I want to buy nothing but plastic cars from now on.
Saturn's inevitable failure as a subsidiary had many factors. The S-Series went into production, with GM fully aware the 1.9L had an engine oil consumption problem, in 1991.

So, there was strike one.

Around the demise of the S-Series, the UAW removed the original contract from the Spring Hill facility, and adopted the Master Contract for all other GM-US locations, which drove up the labor costs. Strike Two

The S-Series is the ONLY Saturn model, that was actually a Saturn. Ions are rebadged Cobalts. The L-Series was a rebadged Opel Vectra from Europe, and suspension components will even interchange with similar-year SAAB 9-series cars

The Vue featured a unique(and hideous) body, but was based on the same platform as the Equinox and had the same boat anchor engine choices of a Scrap-O-Tec or 3.0L Catera engine(converted to FWD)

The minivan was rebadged from the Chevy Venture and had the same problems with intake gasket failure.

The Astra wasn't actually a Saturn, but an Australian Holden/Vauxhall offering. So, another rebadge there.

The Skye was too little, too late, and still a rebadged Pontiac Solstice, with the even worse Scrap-O-Tec Supercharged engines that suffered from cracked blocks

And the Aura doesn't even have polymer body panels, and was nothing more than a rebadged Impala W-Body.

By the time GM closed up Saturn, all that was left of the original company was its name.

However, this was what GM wanted from the start. They only created Saturn as a way to win back customers buying imports. And it did work, but the business structure was never designed for long-term.

I am surprised Saturn stayed alive as long as it did, to be honest.

Scrap-O-Tecs are prone to two major failures: Water Pumps leaking antifreeze into your oil(Thanks to the corrosive nature of GM Death-Cool "extended-life" goop.....err, I mean coolant)

And timing chain failures.

The engine is an "interference" design. So, WHEN the timing chain fails(and it WILL fail), the pistons will come up and hit the valves, resulting in an engine that needs completely replaced or rebuilt.

The 3.0L engines ate head gaskets(another testament to why you don't emulate European automakers and the junk they produce), and was completely designed in Germany.

The 3400/3500 SFI engines are well documented and well-known for their faulty intake gasket designs.

Oh, and by the way, one of our group had a 2006 Ford Mustang GT, with the 24-valve 4.6L and 5-speed manual. Even with the CAI and a performance exhaust, he turned 14.4xxx-14.6xxx all night long, and barely broke 90mph in the traps.

So, I have no idea where these auto magazines get these phenomenal 1/4-mile times and estimates from.

Removing my toolbox amd spare oil from the trunk of my Saturn freed up 3/10 of a second. Using "Normal" mode gave me another 2/10 of a second.

Even with a healthy engine, I still wouldn't have came anywhere near the estimated high 15s my car is rated for.

And the hot, humid air wouldn't sacrifice that much power.

6/18/2017 3:20:55 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

progrocknic
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Quote from enigmaathand:
Oh, and by the way, one of our group had a 2006 Ford Mustang GT, with the 24-valve 4.6L and 5-speed manual. Even with the CAI and a performance exhaust, he turned 14.4xxx-14.6xxx all night long, and barely broke 90mph in the traps.


Almost as shitty as my first time.

So, I have no idea where these auto magazines get these phenomenal 1/4-mile times and estimates from.


I don't know what auto magazines say about the 1/4 mile time, I only know what I've seen guys run. The quickest stock 2005-2006 mustang time I've seen in person was 13.8. I'm assuming I could have hit those times because after putting in the CIA and 4.11 gears, I ran a 13.4. There's no way gears and a CIA knocked almost a full second off my time, and seeing how most people picked up about .4-.5 seconds just getting 4.11 gears, I have a feeling my stock run could have been a lot better.

6/18/2017 9:03:16 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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I dropped .3 just from removing junk out of my trunk.

Gearing will not affect trap speeds, but will change your ETs considerably

6/18/2017 9:39:49 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

Suzhi
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Quote from enigmaathand:
When I can afford to go to the track, yes.

It cost me $25, just to run my car for the night.

That doesn't count the gas to to get there, the oil I burned going down the track, and the extra strain on my drive train from being pushed to its limits, repeatedly.

If I had the money, time, and capability: I would practice weekly, for the "Street Gamblers" races they do.

It is a $40 entry, at the track I was at, with a $500 payout for first place.

The thing about bracket racing, the most CONSISTENT car will win the race, over the "fastest" cars.

Here is how bracket racing works.

Car #1: 1978 Chevrolet Malibu, with a 350 Small Block pushing 600hp, estimated 1/4-mile time of 13.56

Car #2: 1990 Camaro IROC-Z, with a TPI 350 small block, pushing 375hp, running estimated time of 14.44

When these two cars line up, Car #2 gets a head start of about 1 second, over Car #1.(The idea is that if both drivers run their exact time, and both driver get a perfect reaction to the green, they will end the race in a dead tie)

Now, here is where it gets interesting:

To win, YOU still have to cross the finish line FIRST.

BUT, you HAVE to run your dial-in(the estimated time written on the windshield of your car).

If you run faster(say you sandbag to get a bigger lead), you still lose the race.

That is called "breaking out".

The yellows are timed to be EXACTLY 0.5000 seconds.

A PERFECT reaction time to the green is 0.0001 seconds(which is only possible running a delay-box class vehicle, because it launches with the push of a button)

So, basically, the quicker reaction time to the green and running consistent tikes will help you won more races than running the fastest vehicle.

I watched a guy run his 1991 Buick Regal, with the 140hp 3.1L Chevy at that track.

He ran 17.6s in the 1/4-mile, but he had reaction times very close to 0.020s on every run, and he always ran his dial-in.

He would destroy Mustangs and Camaros, and even beat Vettes.

Drivers run too fast, and break out from their dial-in, or they red light, trying to beat his R/T to green



I've been to a race like that.. The slowest car won.. I thought for sure there was gonna be a fist fight afterwards...

6/19/2017 5:29:22 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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That's the strange thing about slower cars: They run more consistently than high-performance cars tend to.

I see a lot of people run manual gearboxes, in the time trials.

The elimination rounds are almost always dominated by the cars with automatic, though.

I don't care how good you are, at your shifting, a human will NEVER beat the precision of an electronically-controlled automatic transmission.

My Saturn shifted at 6,100rpm, in every single race, and every single gear.

Overall, I haven't owned a car that has ever ran that consistently.

Now to just get my engine rebuilt...

6/22/2017 3:56:12 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sVdYsR28YJM

You can watch my oil burner get toasted by a Coyote-powered Mustang. He has a Procharger Series supercharger, and tons of work.

Too bad he can't cut a green light, which gave me the win by default.(The flashing light on the scoreboard is the indicator of who wins the race)

6/22/2017 2:19:42 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from enigmaathand:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sVdYsR28YJM

You can watch my oil burner get toasted by a Coyote-powered Mustang. He has a Procharger Series supercharger, and tons of work.

Too bad he can't cut a green light, which gave me the win by default.(The flashing light on the scoreboard is the indicator of who wins the race)
hey have you heard of hot August nights

6/22/2017 2:20:58 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  
4uijack
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Quote from dark_gable0585:
hey have you heard of hot August nights


Isn't that when your mama gets toasted all night long?

6/22/2017 3:44:42 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from 4uijack:
Isn't that when your mama gets toasted all night long?
nope...its where your mama had a wooden leg and a kickstand

6/22/2017 6:14:06 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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Quote from dark_gable0585:
hey have you heard of hot August nights
No. We have the "Hot Rod Super Nationals", up in Ohio, each year.

What is it?

6/22/2017 7:09:15 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from enigmaathand:
No. We have the "Hot Rod Super Nationals", up in Ohio, each year.

What is it?
they show old school cars to modern at Reno every year

6/22/2017 7:34:47 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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Quote from dark_gable0585:
they show old school cars to modern at Reno every year
Ahh, ok. Yeah, I don't think I will ever be in Nevada, anytime soon.

6/22/2017 8:23:34 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from enigmaathand:
Ahh, ok. Yeah, I don't think I will ever be in Nevada, anytime soon.
well one day

6/23/2017 10:49:59 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  
sinceresammy
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Dark Dumbo drive a rusty old Cadillac. He stole it out of a junkyard. He likes to go out on Saturday Nights decked out in his fur hat and coat:



Oh boy.

6/23/2017 10:55:52 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from sinceresammy:
Dark Dumbo drive a rusty old Cadillac. He stole it out of a junkyard. He likes to go out on Saturday Nights decked out in his fur hat and coat:



Oh boy.
I'm dark skinned and I dont wear loud clothes.....
Try again racist b*tch

6/23/2017 11:19:26 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  
sinceresammy
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Dark skinned eh?



That boy looks plenty dark to me!

6/23/2017 11:28:26 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  
4uijack
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Quote from dark_gable0585:
I'm dark skinned and I dont wear loud clothes.....
Try again racist b*tch


That's cos you a broke back nigga!!!

6/23/2017 11:33:08 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from 4uijack:
That's cos you a broke back nigga!!!
whatever you say mama's boy

6/23/2017 11:41:41 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  
sinceresammy
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^One ugly nigga!

6/23/2017 11:45:27 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  
4uijack
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He'd look pretty,.......................... tied to my bumper!!!!

6/23/2017 7:57:45 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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Quote from sinceresammy:
Dark Dumbo drive a rusty old Cadillac. He stole it out of a junkyard. He likes to go out on Saturday Nights decked out in his fur hat and coat:



Oh boy.
That rusted-out, stolen Cadillac would still outlast that German-built, overpriced pile of shit you drive around, and cheaper to fix IF something breaks(as opposed to EXPENSIVE, WHEN something breaks on your scrap heap Mercedes....)

6/23/2017 9:52:44 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

progrocknic
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Quote from enigmaathand:
That rusted-out, stolen Cadillac would still outlast that German-built, overpriced pile of shit you drive around, and cheaper to fix IF something breaks(as opposed to EXPENSIVE, WHEN something breaks on your scrap heap Mercedes....)


Mercedes are cool if you like Korean electronics that fail all the time. When I was doing counter tops, technically I owned a Mercedes. It was a sprinter, and imported and badged as a freightliner, but it was all Mercedes. It's the only good think they've built recently, and now everyone copied the design. Although, the harmonic balancer did fall off while backing out of a parking spot. Yup. Just fell off. And the geometry of the front end cause tire wear problems and the sliding door got jammed and the bearing in the fan blew out and the fan sliced into the radiator and parts were ungodly expensive.... But as far as the design of a work truck goes, that had some really good ideas. And that 5 cylinder diesel engine was absolutely fantastic.

6/23/2017 10:40:00 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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Quote from progrocknic:
Mercedes are cool if you like Korean electronics that fail all the time. When I was doing counter tops, technically I owned a Mercedes. It was a sprinter, and imported and badged as a freightliner, but it was all Mercedes. It's the only good think they've built recently, and now everyone copied the design. Although, the harmonic balancer did fall off while backing out of a parking spot. Yup. Just fell off. And the geometry of the front end cause tire wear problems and the sliding door got jammed and the bearing in the fan blew out and the fan sliced into the radiator and parts were ungodly expensive.... But as far as the design of a work truck goes, that had some really good ideas. And that 5 cylinder diesel engine was absolutely fantastic.
Sounds like a "genuine Daimler product". Freightliners are manufactured by Chrysler LLC. Check the door pillar of any Freightliner tractor, for hauling trailers.

Cascadia is also Chrysler.

Sterling is Ford.

And I believe International is GM(Internationals have a Delphi wiring harness, this I know for sure, and many drivers complain about the electrical problems they have...)



[Edited 6/23/2017 10:40:27 PM ]

6/25/2017 12:24:39 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

Suzhi
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Bump..

6/25/2017 1:26:53 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

Suzhi
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6/25/2017 3:16:35 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from Suzhi:



nice

6/25/2017 3:17:47 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  
rightguyforu732
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Shut up, simp.

6/25/2017 3:21:04 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from rightguyforu732:
Shut up, simp.
stop having a titty fit

6/25/2017 3:26:34 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

Suzhi
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6/25/2017 4:00:31 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from Suzhi:
when it comes to colors I preferred black and gray

6/25/2017 4:27:47 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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Quote from dark_gable0585:
stop having a titty fit
But, he likes having his momma's titty in his mouth, at the age of 47.....

6/25/2017 4:56:40 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from enigmaathand:
But, he likes having his momma's titty in his mouth, at the age of 47.....
wasting his time 2017

7/9/2017 8:47:36 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Did anybody saw a classic car lately

7/9/2017 9:19:38 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

Suzhi
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Photobucket stole my other pics..

7/9/2017 9:32:58 AM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

Suzhi
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7/9/2017 12:24:25 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Two dope cars

7/9/2017 1:54:36 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

Suzhi
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I'm all about American muscle cars.. Ground pounders..

7/9/2017 3:10:44 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from Suzhi:
I'm all about American muscle cars.. Ground pounders..
me too

7/9/2017 5:34:28 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

kandykayn
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American muscle trucks all day.

I prefer big vehicles my hubby and I argue about who takes the Yukon Denali to work. I usually lose.

If I have to drive a car I prefer the build of the charger and 300s.

7/9/2017 6:44:35 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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Some impressive GIFs.

7/9/2017 7:24:30 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from kandykayn:
American muscle trucks all day.

I prefer big vehicles my hubby and I argue about who takes the Yukon Denali to work. I usually lose.

If I have to drive a car I prefer the build of the charger and 300s.
as i said.....it's childish to talk shit to someone but still wanted to participate in my threads

7/9/2017 7:24:52 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from enigmaathand:
Some impressive GIFs.
how do you put pics on threads

7/9/2017 7:29:01 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

Suzhi
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7/9/2017 7:34:30 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

Suzhi
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Quote from dark_gable0585:
how do you put pics on threads


Best thing to do is google something like, posting pics to social media sites.. There are usually a few you tube videos that will walk you through it..It's complicated to explain on here...

7/9/2017 7:37:37 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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@suzhi is there any way you can inbox me so you can explain it

7/9/2017 7:40:26 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

Suzhi
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If you google it you can see videos of how to do it.. That's really the best way... I'd only confuse you...

7/9/2017 7:44:09 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Thanks I'll check it out

7/10/2017 9:17:05 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

Suzhi
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7/10/2017 9:45:02 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

teigeasaurus
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7/10/2017 9:51:47 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  
cherisays
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.



[Edited 7/10/2017 9:52:45 PM ]

7/10/2017 9:54:22 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

dark_gable0585
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Quote from teigeasaurus:
dope

7/10/2017 9:59:28 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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Quote from teigeasaurus:
Back when Ford made a REAL CAR....

7/10/2017 10:00:42 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

teigeasaurus
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Quote from enigmaathand:
Back when Ford made a REAL CAR....




7/10/2017 10:30:25 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

teigeasaurus
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Quote from enigmaathand:
Back when Ford made a REAL CAR....


Truth

7/10/2017 10:38:00 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
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Quote from teigeasaurus:
Truth
C'mon now. I hope you didn't expect me to lie, or not know about cars here. I thought I did a better job of showing some of what to expect from me.

7/10/2017 10:45:11 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

teigeasaurus
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Quote from enigmaathand:
C'mon now. I hope you didn't expect me to lie, or not know about cars here. I thought I did a better job of showing some of what to expect from me.



I only expect honesty from you. I like that you know about cars. I just can't deny the goosebumps I get when I see a 1964 1/2.


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7/10/2017 10:48:44 PM Throwback thread: American muscle or imports | Page 4  

enigmaathand
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,046)
Leavittsburg, OH
37, joined Mar. 2013


The Fox-Body was always my favorite Mustang. There was something about the 5.0L LX Convertibles, that just made those cars appealing to me. Maybe it was the 302 V-8, or the fact that any RWD Ford power plant could fit into the Fox-Body

And we both know I am not a big Ford fan.