What if Ken Starr had never been born?

11/25/2007 11:06:08 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	I'm just curious, how everyone in the lefty group thinks politics/elections might have been different if that whole debackle with Clinton and Lewinski hadn't happened. Do you, for example, still think that Bush would have "won" out against Gore in 2000? If he didn't, how do you think Gore would have handled 9/11? The same? Totally different? Would we still be in a war with Iraq if Clinton had had the common sense to keep his fly shut? Would it have mattered or was this war inevitable? Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
11/26/2007 5:42:18 AM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	hahah.. wow.. never thought you'd be that bored to change your politics setting to very liberal just so you could post in here?? Interesting. You're about as liberal as Rush Limba photo.
11/26/2007 2:22:21 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	Farrakahn eh? That's a first. I don't even know what you mean by that one. Well, as I said before, I'm done arguing with you. So be my guest and start stuff in the GROUP area, as opposed to the forum section, but good luck getting a response from me after this message.
11/26/2007 11:13:08 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
jeannie1952 Warrensburg, MO 65, joined Oct. 2007	I will have to say that, yes, I believe things might have worked out differently had Clinton had the good sense to not become involved with that woman. Remember that even I think I have become too paranoid, but I think the Republicans saw that scandal as the crack(pardon the pun) in the Democratic party. They found themselves a willing puppet and ran with him. I know as well as I know anything, that we would not be embroiled in this war with no purpose if Gore had won. I don't think that Gore would have been such an rediculous "cowboy" about 9/11. I know the first time the twin towers were attacked that the press and the Republicans said Clinton's concern about the growing power of Alciada(sp) was just a diversion from his scandal. Unfortunately, now we know had we paid more attention then, we would not be in this mess now! I firmly believe that the war is nothing more than revenge for the first Gulf War. You know, the old Sins of the Father... George W. is a pawn of the party and sadly almost not responsible for his actions. I even wonder how much he understands about what he says. I guess to answer your question...I really respected Bill Clinton. I think he is a smart man and did great things with and for this country. He did something very, very stupid and I would not care to have him for a neighbor. He does not make a very good moral compass but who does? The Bushes certainly don't. I think it's time we get over ourselves and really try to use some common sense and logic. Yes, Bill changed the course of US relations with the rest of the world through his actions. Not because he did what he did but because we used the scandal to exagerate the imaginary morality of this country. Now with a government who supposedly has the market on morality we are raping the rest of the world. I just have to say this. If anyone responds to what I have said, please have the respect to voice your oppinion without namecalling! Personal assault will get no response from me.
11/27/2007 8:01:08 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
cottagebithec Utica, NY 70, joined Sep. 2007	Well Yankee, Here's how I see this. Gore distanced himself from Clinton during his campaign for president because of the Ken Star investigation. I was disappointed when he did that and believe it cost him the election. So I think we would have to go back to Ken Star to start over. Having said that now, we assume Gore is elected. With the Clinton Administration's backing he may not have prevented the attack, but I believe he would have retaliated and captured Bin Ladin. Instead of an invasion of Irag we would have a National Energy Policy which would be like our quest in our space program similar to Kennedy's. We as citizens would have not been told to "go shopping", but been asked to sacrifice for the short term to become energy efficient and non oil dependent to fight the war on terror! There would be no invasion in Irag.
11/28/2007 1:50:17 AM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	interesting and thought provoking answers ladies. Cottage, I've often wondered why we're so hell bent on SUV's and the like if we hate being under OPEC's thumb so much. And Jeanie, I agree with your, "think he did some good things as a leader but that doesn't mean I'd want him as a neighbor idea." In the same vein of a monopoly on morality, I've often wondered why the religious right was so determined that homosexuality was going to bring about the descration of the "sanctity of marriage." Haven't we heteros already done enough of a bang up job with that with our current divorce rate? I mean no disrespect to anyone that has had a divorce, as every case is different. I just see a double standard there.
11/28/2007 8:19:15 AM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
jeannie1952 Warrensburg, MO 65, joined Oct. 2007	Hey Yankee! The reason they are so hell bent on blaming homosexuals for ruining the family and marriage, in my opinion, is fear. If we can stay afraid of something then we will never understand it. The religious right would be happier keeping everyone afraid of Gays and Lesbians, like what are they going to do to us? And, I think you are correct...heterosexual have done just fine in damaging the institution of marriage on their own, I don't think we need to drag another group into the mix!!!!! Ha!
11/28/2007 7:58:27 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	LOL yeah I think it was Robin Williams or someone else maybe that said, "I say, let Gay people get married. Then they can become miserable and frustrated like the rest of us.."
11/28/2007 8:11:04 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	But going backwards a bit, I do agree with your fear idea. As much as I think Michael Moore is an oppurtunistic, melodramatic, hack that takes liberty with the truth too often, I do think he brought up an interesting point in Bowling for Columbine when he said that our whole economy is based on keeping us afraid and locked in our homes, buying more junk to make us feel better. It's one thing I get tired of hearing from the Right wing... how all of us liberals are bringing about a decadent age of perversion and so forth. I don't want to hire child molestors as teachers, I just want everyone to get an equal shake, men/women,jew/gentile, white/black/pink & pokiedotted etc. But I think that idea threatens the status quo and so the people in power try to distract us from that struggle by pointing out all of the evil in the world. There is a lot of good in the world too, it's just not EXCITING enough to make the news. They say murder makes up something like 2% of the crime in our country but gets 80% of the coverage. Only once in a blue moon do they do a feel good peice about some kid helping a little old lady across the street. Fact of the matter is, people don't want to know about that kind of stuff. They want to know about some dude cutting up his neighbors and feeding them to his dog, or whatever. I, by the way, don't omit myself from this as I like to watch movies like Saw just as much as the next guy. I just think we need to seriously re-evaluate what it is we put our attention on. That's one reason I try very hard to be careful about clicking on links to "scandolous" news or celebrity gossip as the more you show interest in something the more the media will cater to that. I don't think that the TV corporations are inherently evil, I think they just reflect us. In the same way, I think the whole Clinton scandal was all about us as a country needing to collectively get laid and stop nosing around in other peoples sex lives!
11/28/2007 10:08:51 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
jeannie1952 Warrensburg, MO 65, joined Oct. 2007	I tried to say this in the politics/current event thread but didn't have any luck making my point. Soooo, I'll say it again here. The way I see things, not the way I want it but the way I see it, is that we as a people are all about power. Fear is a great way for the powerful to keep the rest under control. We are lazy and don't want to think things through rationally so we buy whatever is fed to us. The reason to keep certain people with less power; women, blacks, etc. is all about fear of loosing power. The rich, white men that run the country don't want to loose that power. Not so much now, but for a long time after 9/11 every time we began to let down our guard and relax a bit that terrorist warning thing would go up. Fear is a great controler and power is as adictive as money!
11/30/2007 7:09:12 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	yeah jeannie, I know what you mean. What gets me, are these people who say any sort of questioning of the current administration makes you somehow unpatriotic. In my mind at least, that's what makes this country so beautiful. Men/women have fought and died so that we might have the right to question the ones in power and hold them accountable. To do any less is to cheapen their sacrifice. Again this is just my opinion but there it is. Did you hear something just now by the way? Thought maybe a fly came in the room or something.
11/30/2007 8:07:24 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
jeannie1952 Warrensburg, MO 65, joined Oct. 2007	I think that I more than gave my opinion of the question above, way above, but I guess we have strayed from the original question. Of course, it has taken several days to get here so I pretty much forgot the original question, senior moment, and was leading everyone astray...I'm so sorry...wish I could just break all my typing fingers!
11/30/2007 8:11:25 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
jeannie1952 Warrensburg, MO 65, joined Oct. 2007	Oh, and Photo, maybe it's just me but I just can't stand it when a boy calls me condesending terms of endearment. It's sexist, a pretense to imply that I am old, which no one is more aware of than me and it's just plain gross. What would you think of I called you "sonny boy"?? Please don't do it anymore!
12/1/2007 1:53:09 AM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	jeannie, I wouldn't worry about straying from the central question with groups. This is an exact quote from dustin (the admin) ________________________________________________________ The posts in a group are not about any one topic. A group is a collection of like-minded people. The groups on this site are where these people can hang out and talk about anything they want. For example there are groups for various religions. Christians can hang out in the Christians group and talk about whatever, it doesn't have to be about religous stuff. The point is the people posting in that group all share something in common, that they are Christian. _________________________________________________________ If you go to the thread about suggesting a group and look under the first couple of locked threads, you'll see he writes that. So for people who whine and complain like children without awareness of circumstances.. I think Dustin intended these groups to be a little more for people to talk in rather than argue or fight in. Props to him for all that he does for this site. In fact someone suggested a group for people who'd like to thank dustin. I've posted there. But back to the question at hand. I guess I've just started thinking recently how it's amazing much time changes people's perceptions. Gore tried to run for president when he still had the stink of Clinton's administration on him and got shot down. Now 8 years have passed and Hillary Rodham is trying to make a go at it. It will be interesting to see if people can look beyond her marriage. Course, myself, I'm leaning for Barrack Obama at the moment as he seems to be the most genuine and intelligent.
12/1/2007 7:59:03 AM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
jeannie1952 Warrensburg, MO 65, joined Oct. 2007	Hey Yankee, I'm glad to hear that someone has chosen a candidate. I think I have said before, I am a Biden fan but he is a bit of a loose cannon and he just does not have the media spotlite so I know I've got to go with one of the big three and I just can't talk myself into any of them. I think my problem with Hilary is that she is not Bill, yada, yada, yada. Obama is a really good person, just a bit afraid of his lack of experience and Edwards has this "ick" factor that I can't quite explain. I really want Biden, that's the problem. I really feel for Gore, he did get the short end of the stick. I'm glad he has had success with his film and speaking to global warming. He deserves to be happy. You know no one suffered for Bill's mistake more than Al Gore.
12/1/2007 5:19:36 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	Hey Yankee, I'm glad to hear that someone has chosen a candidate. I think I have said before, I am a Biden fan but he is a bit of a loose cannon and he just does not have the media spotlite so I know I've got to go with one of the big three and I just can't talk myself into any of them. I think my problem with Hilary is that she is not Bill, yada, yada, yada. Obama is a really good person, just a bit afraid of his lack of experience and Edwards has this "ick" factor that I can't quite explain. I really want Biden, that's the problem. I really feel for Gore, he did get the short end of the stick. I'm glad he has had success with his film and speaking to global warming. He deserves to be happy. You know no one suffered for Bill's mistake more than Al Gore. Yeah, Biden seems to be an ok guy too. The only thing with him, and please don't take this as an affront since you've said he's your guy, is that from what i've seen of him on the youtube/cnn debate, it looks like he's sort of bitter and secretly grinding an ax. I know he lost his wife somehow and a man can't go through something like that without it drastically overhauling his faith in the universe. I'm probably way off the mark here, but that was just my initial reaction to him. As far as Obama's lack of experience is concerned, I heard a sound bite of a speach he was giving where he addressed that. It was basically along this line. Pretty sharp guy. although in the clip I heard, I think he said something along the lines of I do agree with your comment about Edwards "ick" factor. My biggest complaint against Hilary, and this may surprise some people, is that I think she SHOULD have divorced Clinton's ass, especially after he got out of office, but I think the old addage about how we'll never elect a single (that is not married) president, holds true. So I kind of think she may have sold her soul for political power, as ditching Bill would have lost her the vote of many religious people and chauvinist men who're still afraid that a woman in power means a lesbian man hater! I DON'T dislike her personally as I think SHE and CHELSEA were the biggest victums of all of this. Talk about your dirty laundry being cleaned in public. I also am afraid of more of the same as far as promises not kept, and she, in my opinion, is a consumate politician. She very rarely loses her composure, at least in public. I think that's the biggest draw for me with Obama, is that he genuinely seems to ponder questions and doesn't have these ready made answers. He appears very earnest and genuine. Of course, THIS could be an excellent act on his part, but if that's the case, then at the very least he should get an oscar for his efforts.
12/1/2007 5:27:25 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	I'm dying to see it come down to Obama or Rodham for the democrats side, as then at least we'll have a REAL honest to god chance of getting someone other than an old white dude in office. Some people might decry that as reverse racism, but after whatever it is 43 or so presidents? I think it's asinine to sit there and insist old white guys get a fair shake at running. I think the beauty of what we've got going here as a country is our diversity. We can pool from so many different cultural influences and outlooks. Why not tap into that?
12/2/2007 7:57:48 AM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
cottagebithec Utica, NY 70, joined Sep. 2007	Yankee and Jeanie... enjoy your posts... hard to find people (here) to talk to about progressive ideas. I totally agree with the marriage situation (we) have collectively done that. I have to tell you, it was the woman's movement that gave me strength to leave a dysfunctional marriage, so when THEY want to blame feminist too, they are probably right. There is pain in growth, whether in an individual or a society... Charlie Rose on PBS at Midnight where I live, has been talking to all the candidates running for president over the past week and that will continue. I enjoy his show. It is an hour of one on one and I'm getting a better feel for each candidate. This is such an important election. I feel so unsure of our country's economic future if we don't radically change our attitude as individuals about energy use and consumer consumption. Topic for another thread?
12/2/2007 6:08:09 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	Yankee and Jeanie... enjoy your posts... hard to find people (here) to talk to about progressive ideas. I totally agree with the marriage situation (we) have collectively done that. I have to tell you, it was the woman's movement that gave me strength to leave a dysfunctional marriage, so when THEY want to blame feminist too, they are probably right. There is pain in growth, whether in an individual or a society... Charlie Rose on PBS at Midnight where I live, has been talking to all the candidates running for president over the past week and that will continue. I enjoy his show. It is an hour of one on one and I'm getting a better feel for each candidate. This is such an important election. I feel so unsure of our country's economic future if we don't radically change our attitude as individuals about energy use and consumer consumption. Topic for another thread? Hey cottage, thanks for throwing your hat in our ring. I'm personnally surprised that more people arent' posting in here, especially with the looming election year fast approaching. I couldn't agree more with you about pain/fear in change/growth. I still remember my middle sister's (the one who had the biggest influence on me being a feminist) reaction to Rush Limba's glib little nickname of feminazis. She said, "How dare he compare the obliteration of 6,000,000 people (I typed it out there because I think sometimes we say 6 million and it doesn't even register as far as the scope of that, but I digress, as usual ) to the attempt to get equal treatment for all people regardless of gender." Of course, that is just Limba, and not reflective of all conservatives, but I think he and others like him, that have moved in to fill the void, use every dirty trick in the book to hold our culture in a perpetual stasis. I'm so glad you had the courage to leave what sounds to have been a very unhealthy situation. As far as posting on another thread is concerned, you're welcome to start one up if you like, or we can keep going on this. I will definately look into getting my hands on Charlie Rose's interviews with the candidates. Sometimes, I think it's better to have those sort of one on one situations as in group scenarios it seems to often turn into a back and forth, "tit for tat" kind of thing. I couldn't agree more about our need to drastically overhaul how we look at materialism and energy consumption. I STILL shake my head, every time I see a (warning swear word coming up) f**king Humvee driving down the street with a "support our troops" decal on the back. How do people think we are going to become truly non-dependant on OPEC nations if we keep upping the size of our gas gullers. I know they're supposed to be SAFER and all of that (although the point I make is, "safer for who? Just the people in the car. Heaven help the poor smuck that gets t-boned by one of those humvees.) but when will we learn that we're all connected. That what you do over in china affects me over in the US or Australia or Zimbabwe or where-ever. It's not an instant reaction, but it's still there. And all of those choices, I feel, are starting to pile up like so many waves coming together to form a tsunami on our coast line! People are crying out for isolationism, as if we can form a magic blanket around our borders and somehow subsist while the rest of the world goes to seed. No doubt, a lot of people on the other side of the fence have labeled me as a "tree-hugger" by now, but some nicknames that start out as taunts, can be badges of honor as far as I'm concerned. I was telling my folks just the other day, that one of my favorite quotes comes from a Native American cheif who's name sadly eludes me. I don't remember the EXACT wording but it's something along the lines of "Only when all the forests are cut down, all the rivers poisoned, and all the animals dead, only then, will you learn that money cannot be eaten."
12/3/2007 3:58:46 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	You're always welcome to keep moving on down the line photo/slinky.
12/3/2007 10:31:50 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
jeannie1952 Warrensburg, MO 65, joined Oct. 2007	You know Cottage, you hit the nail on the head. I think we as a country or maybe the world are going through a lot of changes these days. Maybe it's all part of growth and yes that is almost always painful. Thanks for the info about Charlie Rose. Sometimes I forget about pbs, isn't that awful. Here's how much smarter you are than me. I usually watch The Daily Show. Isn't he the funniest thing on the planet? And, often correct in what he says. Has Charlie done very many candidates yet? I'll look for him tonight. Yankee, you are just to smart for your age, do you have a PHD yet? Ha! We do suffer from mindless consumption, the number of SUVs stand testiment to that. Are there really that many people hauling stuff? I'm a little excited about the hybrid cars...too expensive today but that should come down a little soon. Sure hope they pan out!
12/3/2007 11:32:42 PM	What if Ken Starr had never been born?
yankeeluvspeach Athens, GA 39, joined Aug. 2007	The first paragraph is directed at photo only. If you'd like to skip down to the line, be my guest, as I've nothing to hide. Oh photo/slinky, I don't have a problem with this thread or anyone else here. Just you. Glad to see Dustin doesn't care if people pass themselves off as multiple people to inflate their egos or whatever the reason was that you did it. I really could care less at this point. In fact, I'm willing to offer you a truce. You don't post in any threads I've started posting in (hint: under either name or any others you want to conjure up) and I'll respect yours in the same. Course, if I'm at all a judge of character, I know you'll refuse this as you seem to like to pick fights, but be my guest if that's your wish. You'll find I'm not going anywhere either. Shame really as I actually liked you at first, but I make it a general policy not to waste too much time with people who use racial slurs (and I'm sorry but changing an 'er' to an 'a' Oh... that makes it ok? umm.. yeah...) Also, I'm sure most women here will be really impressed by you calling stella a cnt. That ... That was a mark of real class on your part. It's ok though because even though dustin's decided to keep you around, at least I and a few other people KNOW what you are, which is a liar and a bully. A hurt little bully that likes to throw his online weight around. I feel sad for you really. I just hope your life or the life of someone you "care" about never comes to depend on someone who's black or female.. or heaven forbid a black woman. Best of luck. Beleive it or not, I hold no ill will towards you. I honestly hope you experience some kind of enlightening/life changing experience so you can make some kind of mid-course correction, although ultimately it'll be entirely up to you for that. I do hope not to see you again, though you'll pardon me if I don't hold my breath. Also,(** warning, turn your heads if you're easily offended) you'll pardon me if I don't bow down and suck your d*ck for your new little self appointed "group thread integrity" hall monitor roll that you've assigned yourself. See, I can be profane too.. really doesn't impress me. Take care. _____________________________________________________________________ hey jeannie, I know what you mean. My parents both bought hybrids over the past couple of years and they ROCK! The $20,000 tax deductable is a good start but they're still out of most people's (myself included) price range. There was a documentary that came out last year some time, that I think was narrated by Martin Sheen, called "Who killed the Electric Car?" Pretty interesting. It shows how even the consumer is partly to blame. [Edited 12/4/2007 2:26:39 AM ]

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