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3/1/2016 3:16:51 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

enigmaathand
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,019)
Leavittsburg, OH
35, joined Mar. 2013


As it stands, some Feminist hens on here have previously stated, that "Women couldn't divorce", or that women's financial security would "require a man", prior to Second-Wave Feminism.

So, I was doing some fact finding.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/first-divorce-in-the-colonies

On January 5th, 1643 A.D., a woman was granted the first divorce that a woman filed for, before the United States was even its own country, amd would have been technically under British Laws, still.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this, because somewhere people have this stigma(especially Feminists), that a woman could not do this.

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3/1/2016 5:50:40 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

jjp184
Over 1,000 Posts (1,331)
Somerset, NJ
52, joined Jun. 2013


Even 400 years ago guys would pay any price to get rid of an angry heifer

3/1/2016 6:06:08 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  
mortara
Over 4,000 Posts! (7,097)
Pittsburgh, PA
62, joined Feb. 2014
online now!


Quote from jjp184:
Even 400 years ago guys would pay any price to get rid of an angry heifer


Just look at Henry VIII!!!!

3/1/2016 6:09:03 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

enigmaathand
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,019)
Leavittsburg, OH
35, joined Mar. 2013


C'mon Feminists. I can't hear your rebuttals. All the rhetoric. All the man-hating. All the bra burning. You are such "Strong, Independent" women.

Well, where is your strong arguments, now that you are being faced with FACTS? Huh?

3/1/2016 6:18:07 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

flyfish77
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,095)
Conyers, GA
51, joined Jul. 2014


no there not,,not strong...they wish..not independant..hell no..they wish..nuthins worse than one who thinks she needs no man..an starts to resemble one..

3/1/2016 8:27:38 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

driver406
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (48,502)
Saint Paul, MN
64, joined Oct. 2009


In colonial days divorce was not allowed in Virginia so the husband just disappeared with his stuff and let the b*tch go home to mommy.

Wasn't it extremely difficult in most Catholic countries as well?

3/1/2016 9:11:49 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

enigmaathand
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,019)
Leavittsburg, OH
35, joined Mar. 2013


Catholics do not allow divorce, at all. Divorce is illegal in the Vatican City, but not Italy. Divorce was never in God's plan, so Catholics(despite all the hypocrisy of their religion as a whole) uphold the command of God.

The point is, women were able to file for a divorce, well before Feminism was even thought of, yet the Feminists hens around here will constantly argue about how women couldn't do this or that, because men wouldn't allow it.

As history clearly shows, with this article, women could do those things without Feminism.

So, all these hens think they fought for something they couldn't do, like they have made some big progress in society, or something.

3/1/2016 9:36:26 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

enigmaathand
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,019)
Leavittsburg, OH
35, joined Mar. 2013


Here are some other facts about all the things WOMEN couldn't supposedly do, before Feminists came around.....


1833?US, Ohio: The first co-educational university, Oberlin College.

1855: ?US, Iowa: University of Iowa becomes the first coeducational public or state university in the United States

1860: ?US, New York: Married women granted the right to control their own earnings(i.e. Have their own bank accounts, etc)

1869: ?US: Arabella Mansfield becomes the first woman to enter the practice of law(have high-paying jobs normally only held by MEN)

1891: ?US: Marie Owens hired as a police officer in Chicago.(allowed to perform dangerous jobs normally performed only by men)

1896: ?US: The profession of lawyer opened to both sexes – already in 1869, however, the first American state allowed women to practice law.

The next event, in the US timeline is Roe vs Wade, for the right to abortion.

Now let's see when Feminism originated in the US.....

The first wave of feminism in the United States began with the Seneca Falls Convention, the first women's rights convention, held at the Wesleyan Chapel in Seneca Falls, New York, on July 19 and 20, 1848.

So, women could divorce a full 205 years PRIOR to Feminism ever coming to the US. They could go to college, in Ohio(my Feminist, p*ssy-whipped, woman-catering State), a full 10 years prior to the official start of Feminism.

So, once again, what has Feminism really created, other than hatred for men? We can clearly see that women could own property, including slaves, as early as 1839 as well. None of those laws have been abolished, so technically Feminism hasn't gotten them much of anything, they couldn't already do.

And since most of those laws apply to married women, technically since they have not been abolished, they would still apply and thus Feminism hasn't got women anything.

3/2/2016 2:30:37 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

bumblebee7
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (64,831)
Fort Payne, AL
61, joined Apr. 2011


OP....I can produce circumstantial evidence to show the black movement and women's lib were started by none other than Big Business and its Government Ally.

3/2/2016 4:36:14 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

enigmaathand
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,019)
Leavittsburg, OH
35, joined Mar. 2013


Go ahead, Bee. It is on topic with the thread. And I am one for conspiracy theory

3/2/2016 8:22:29 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  
kungfu_candy
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,176)
Alsónémedi
Hungary
27, joined Aug. 2013


I was under the impression that neither parties could divorce initially.

Once it became a thing it was still ostracized to greatly that men and women who did it received great shame.

I feel that women were psychologically trapped. They didn't want divorces because how could they survive? They were raised to be married and cared for and considered burdons on their family if they couldn't succeed in that or became widowed.

So they were better off in their sham than on their own.

Men on the other hand had an easier access to infidelity (if they were discreet about it) so they felt LESS trapped since they could just bounce and go hang with the friends and f**k a widower, mistress, youngin', or a married woman bold enough to even engage in an affair.

Eventually men were shamed but could live on, women were marked for being divorced because eventually it became consensual that it was up to the woman to hold a successful marriage. If you divorce you failed, not your husband. Men just bring home the bacon and work to the bone, meanwhile women are in charge of the household, the family, and the matrimony.

This is all of course generally speaking. That case is as rare as cases of black females being lynched in Jim Crow days.

So I'm not saying women couldn't but they had an entire institution ingrained in them that prevented them from even conceiving such a thing.

It was even carried into religions. You can find endless cases of men talking about how their fathers abused their mothers and their mothers would cover for them and not get divorces because of being raised Catholic or whatever.

3/2/2016 9:38:18 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

soulflight
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,054)
Baltimore, MD
54, joined Apr. 2014


Just because a person is legally permitted to do something doesn't mean they are "able" to do it.

the social implications of divorce, the social impact of having no viable job skills to earn a decent living and the corresponding threat of losing their children, ..even if they had some skills they were limited by social attitudes toward women working in specific fields or at all..numerous factors are involved.

Just the fact that women were raised ..by other women...to believe and accept those limitations, was limiting. nothing changes overnight. People are socialized, institutionalized....having the right to do something has little to do with being able to do it.

3/2/2016 9:45:24 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

sadlsticsienna
Over 2,000 Posts (2,973)
AñatuyaNew South Wales
Australia
23, joined Jan. 2016
online now!


I feel that women were psychologically trapped. They didn't want divorces because how could they survive? They were raised to be married and cared for and considered burdons on their family if they couldn't succeed in that or became widowed.

That is exactly what I mean. Especially in terms of when women didn't work and such. How could they possibly survive, can't work or just no experience and children they have to care for. Basically indirectly forced to stay in a relationship they aren't happy in or just isn't working because the alternative could have her and her children on the street and such.

3/2/2016 11:53:58 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  
amusicluvr
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (20,052)
Salem, OR
63, joined Nov. 2013


As long as there is life insurance, no woman is trapped in a marriage she wants out of. If she can't get a divorce, and a job, she can arrange a hunting accident for hubby.

3/2/2016 3:15:28 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

enigmaathand
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,019)
Leavittsburg, OH
35, joined Mar. 2013


Quote from kungfu_candy:
I was under the impression that neither parties could divorce initially.

Once it became a thing it was still ostracized to greatly that men and women who did it received great shame.

I feel that women were psychologically trapped. They didn't want divorces because how could they survive? They were raised to be married and cared for and considered burdons on their family if they couldn't succeed in that or became widowed.

So they were better off in their sham than on their own.

Men on the other hand had an easier access to infidelity (if they were discreet about it) so they felt LESS trapped since they could just bounce and go hang with the friends and f**k a widower, mistress, youngin', or a married woman bold enough to even engage in an affair.

Eventually men were shamed but could live on, women were marked for being divorced because eventually it became consensual that it was up to the woman to hold a successful marriage. If you divorce you failed, not your husband. Men just bring home the bacon and work to the bone, meanwhile women are in charge of the household, the family, and the matrimony.

This is all of course generally speaking. That case is as rare as cases of black females being lynched in Jim Crow days.

So I'm not saying women couldn't but they had an entire institution ingrained in them that prevented them from even conceiving such a thing.

It was even carried into religions. You can find endless cases of men talking about how their fathers abused their mothers and their mothers would cover for them and not get divorces because of being raised Catholic or whatever.
So, women were MORE CONCERNED WITH WHAT OTHERS THOUGHT ABOUT THEM? There's big surprise. Countless studies have proven this, time and time again....

Yet, women feel it is ok to shame men in the same fashion, today.

So, women felt it was wrong to be "socially conditioned" to NOT divorce and it was wrong to "trap" them, and they turn around and change the "Social Conditioning" to shame men in the same fashion?

Two wrongs don't make a right, ladies.

I'm not disagreeing with you, Soul or Sienna. I am merely pointing out that BOTH forms of "Social Conditioning" are WRONG.

3/2/2016 3:35:27 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

soulflight
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,054)
Baltimore, MD
54, joined Apr. 2014


You are missing an important piece...it's not that they were simply worried about what people would think, it's the psychological threat of being removed from their childrens lives, of losing their children and any semblance of life in the only society they knew. It was a mans world, period.
I'm not sure what 2 wrongs you are talking about...

And the women you mentioned, the "firsts"...were few and far between, often not recognized or respected during their lives for their unorthodox paths. Seen as terrible, wicked women by men AND women regardless of their acheivements. atleast now, they are recognized as the brave, strong- willed women they were.

it's interesting...many yrs passed between the first female lawyer and the first female appointed to SCOTUS.

now having said all that...the fact still remains...marriage/divorce is ultimately between the two people involved and none of the stats have a damn thing to do with your or my success in relationships.

3/2/2016 3:46:51 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

enigmaathand
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,019)
Leavittsburg, OH
35, joined Mar. 2013


Men are often publicly shamed for divorce.

We are accused of walking out on her and the kids.

We are called "Deadbeats".

We are financially extorted, if we walk.

Society uses all this as "fear tactics" to make men stay in bad relationships, where they are potentially abused and criticized continuously.

No, it may not affect me, directly.

It is an issue that affects many. It is turning into a WOMAN'S world.

Well, by your own words: It WAS A MAN'S WORLD, and women felt THAT was wrong.

So, now, WOMEN are doing EXACTLY what the men they resented did.

THAT is the "Two Wrongs".

Put away the Feminism and return to being the intelligent person, that I know you are. Our debates are much more productive, that way.

3/2/2016 4:14:39 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

soulflight
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,054)
Baltimore, MD
54, joined Apr. 2014


Lol..I'm no feminist and this is not a womans world anymore than it is a mans world anymore..atleast not here in America and some other developed countries.

If you want to go back to spitting insults because I recognize historic events..that's your choice.

I never have seen any value in playing the blame game for the quality of my life and relationships. I don't blame men or women or feminists or misogynists. I don't see any value in continually railing against women and/or feminists.

You have been very clear, no pre-made family for you. Cool. Limiting at your age but your choice. Regardless of why you haven't found the right woman for you, what is the value in going on and on about evil feminists , creating thread after thread to say the same thing over and over....? I just don't get it. As you yourself have stated...it's just like Medusa but the opposite side of the coin....

You are both intelligent people who for some reason never miss an opportunity to repeat your rant, turn every conversation into an opportonity to spew yet again. it's just baffling to me...a real waste of energy and a self-fullfilling prophecy.

I just think you are both better than that.

3/2/2016 5:26:10 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

enigmaathand
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,019)
Leavittsburg, OH
35, joined Mar. 2013


Well, for what it is worth, I am sincerely sorry for ever attacking your current marriage and you in the beginning.

You, specifically, are nit as much of a threat to me or men, as I once thought.

That is why you see me going on and on. Feminism, to me and many men, is threatening to us. Human capacity and tolerance is inversely proportional to the amount of harm perceived.

This does not change my perceived level of threat, for what Feminism is actually doing in society(not what it stand for by dictionary definition).

It just means that I seen you as more of a threat than you actually are and I'm sorry for that misjudgment.

3/2/2016 7:34:30 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

soulflight
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,054)
Baltimore, MD
54, joined Apr. 2014


@ enig

Thank you, it's always rewarding to actually be "heard and somewhat...understood".,atleast not completely MISunderstood

we need not agree to be respectful..

3/3/2016 2:13:21 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

testsignup
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,722)
Springfield, VA
62, joined Sep. 2009


If you want to know the ACTUAL history of anything to do with human rights and how life was and was not, and you don't want to be taken in by the all-too- common hostility driven propaganda versions of the past, the thing to do is to look NOT at what the declared overall RULES were, rather look at the detailed MECHANISMS of actually following the rules.

After all, in places such as the Soviet Union, it was the RULES that everyone
"voted." The translated name of their dictatorships always included the word "democratic."

However, because of the exact mechanisms of the "voting," wherein they were not allowed to have a say in who was available to vote FOR, and because neither opposition parties nor functional free speech were allowed to exist, the so-called "democratic republics" were neither.

Just because people are officially ALLOWED to "divorce," doesn't mean that they have FUNCTIONAL equality under the law.

After all, we didn't even allow most women to have equal voting rights in this country, until after the 19th Amendment was passed, and even after that, local areas had to be forced to comply.

Even today, there are people who are actively trying to take rights AWAY from other people, usually in the guise of "defending the rights" of some other subgroup.

3/3/2016 5:16:14 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

lucky_1million
Over 1,000 Posts (1,305)
Pewaukee, WI
49, joined Jun. 2013


It seems to me that the right for women and men to divorce has been around since the time of Moses.

Mark 10:11-12 implies this.

"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man she commits adultery."

Of course different versions use the word "leave" instead of divorce.




Unless you are chained in someone's basement everyone has the freedom to leave regardless of the granting of a divorce.

3/3/2016 5:53:27 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

soulflight
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,054)
Baltimore, MD
54, joined Apr. 2014


Chains and basements exist in many forms. I would not presume to evaluate anothers circumstances so broadly.

3/3/2016 5:59:56 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

lucky_1million
Over 1,000 Posts (1,305)
Pewaukee, WI
49, joined Jun. 2013


Oh sorry. My sense of humor isn't always funny.

3/3/2016 6:21:25 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

enigmaathand
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,019)
Leavittsburg, OH
35, joined Mar. 2013


Quote from testsignup:
If you want to know the ACTUAL history of anything to do with human rights and how life was and was not, and you don't want to be taken in by the all-too- common hostility driven propaganda versions of the past, the thing to do is to look NOT at what the declared overall RULES were, rather look at the detailed MECHANISMS of actually following the rules.

After all, in places such as the Soviet Union, it was the RULES that everyone
"voted." The translated name of their dictatorships always included the word "democratic."

However, because of the exact mechanisms of the "voting," wherein they were not allowed to have a say in who was available to vote FOR, and because neither opposition parties nor functional free speech were allowed to exist, the so-called "democratic republics" were neither.

Just because people are officially ALLOWED to "divorce," doesn't mean that they have FUNCTIONAL equality under the law.

After all, we didn't even allow most women to have equal voting rights in this country, until after the 19th Amendment was passed, and even after that, local areas had to be forced to comply.

Even today, there are people who are actively trying to take rights AWAY from other people, usually in the guise of "defending the rights" of some other subgroup.
Very interesting point, Test. And yes, you are very accurate in your observations.

What I also noticed was the last part, about people taking rights away from another subgroup? Kinda like the way Feminists fight to strip mem away of their rights.

3/3/2016 6:21:59 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

enigmaathand
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,019)
Leavittsburg, OH
35, joined Mar. 2013


Quote from lucky_1million:
Oh sorry. My sense of humor isn't always funny.
I got what you were trying to say, Lucky.

3/3/2016 9:54:03 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

soulflight
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,054)
Baltimore, MD
54, joined Apr. 2014


Quote from lucky_1million:
Oh sorry. My sense of humor isn't always funny.


understood..subtelty is often lost in chat/fora....emoticons help

3/3/2016 10:19:02 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

mylegsarecold
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (12,802)
Gainesville, FL
54, joined May. 2011


Quote from lucky_1million:
Oh sorry. My sense of humor isn't always funny.

Your sense of freedom is a little awkward too.

You have the freedom to divorce but all it costs is eternity in hell?

3/3/2016 10:41:39 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

soulflight
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,054)
Baltimore, MD
54, joined Apr. 2014




3/3/2016 11:59:40 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

enigmaathand
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,019)
Leavittsburg, OH
35, joined Mar. 2013


Marriage is actually the eternity in Hell.....

3/3/2016 5:52:19 PM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  

lucky_1million
Over 1,000 Posts (1,305)
Pewaukee, WI
49, joined Jun. 2013


Quote from mylegsarecold:
Your sense of freedom is a little awkward too.

You have the freedom to divorce but all it costs is eternity in hell?



Hey! I didn't write these things.

Don't blame the messenger.



If you leave, just don't get married again.

All hell is avoided.



3/4/2016 5:39:37 AM Women Have Always Been Allowed to Divorce  
stregaleonora
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,661)
Atlanta, GA
40, joined Jun. 2014


..if you exclude the countries where they stone them.