Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant.

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kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	You don't know that. Its just the product of your warped mind. You no more grasp the teachings of Jesus than the murderous Pharisees. Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
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cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	Quote from ludlowlowell: God inspires the Catholic Church, yes, and God, speaking through the Catholic bishops present at Hippo in 393 a.d., decided which books would go into the Bible and which ones not. God speaks through the Catholic Church. That is why outside the Church there is no salvation. Okay, LUD, let's acquiescence and run with your theory for a change. LUD, you state that the Catholic bishops at Hippo, acting under the auspices, and at the direction of God, decided which books to include in the Bible and which to exclude. [Without going into a speechifying dither and lengthy diatribe to 'extrapolate' and what you have already stated -- answer the following question with a plain YES or NO. Am I representing your statement fairly and correctly?
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ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Yes.
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cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	Matthew 5:18 King James Version (KJV) 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Would you agree that the above is scripture; that it is God-breathed; and that it is quoted correctly?
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ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	That verse refers to the ten commandments, not the Levitical law.
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cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	*Get Ready*
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clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	"What is the Ark of the Covenant?" Answer: God made a covenant (a conditional covenant) with the children of Israel through His servant Moses. He promised good to them and their children for generations if they obeyed Him and His laws; but He always warned of despair, punishment, and dispersion if they were to disobey. As a sign of His covenant He had the Israelites make a box according to His own design, in which to place the stone tablets containing the Ten Commandments. This box, or chest, was called an “ark” and was made of acacia wood overlaid with gold. The Ark was to be housed in the inner sanctum of the tabernacle in the desert and eventually in the Temple when it was built in Jerusalem. This chest is known as the Ark of the Covenant. The real significance of the Ark of the Covenant was what took place involving the lid of the box, known as the "Mercy Seat." The term ‘mercy seat’ comes from a Hebrew word meaning “to cover, placate, appease, cleanse, cancel or make atonement for.” It was here that the high priest, only once a year (Leviticus 16), entered the Holy of Holies where the Ark was kept and atoned for his sins and the sins of the Israelites. The priest sprinkled blood of a sacrificed animal onto the Mercy Seat to appease the wrath and anger of God for past sins committed. This was the only place in the world where this atonement could take place. The Mercy Seat on the Ark was a symbolic foreshadowing of the ultimate sacrifice for all sin—the blood of Christ shed on the cross for the remission of sins. The Apostle Paul, a former Pharisee and one familiar with the Old Testament, knew this concept quite well when he wrote about Christ being our covering for sin in Romans 3:24-25: "…and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith." Just as there was only one place for atonement of sins in the Old Testament—the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant—so there is also only one place for atonement in the New Testament and current times—the cross of Jesus Christ. As Christians, we no longer look to the Ark but to the Lord Jesus Himself as the propitiation and atonement for our sins. Recommended Resource: Bible Answers for Almost all Your Questions by Elmer Towns
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clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	"What happened to the Ark of the Covenant?" Answer: What happened to the Ark of the Covenant is a question that has fascinated theologians, Bible students, and archeologists for centuries. In the eighteenth year of his reign, King Josiah of Judah ordered the caretakers of the Ark of the Covenant to return it to the temple in Jerusalem (2 Chronicles 35:1-6; cf. 2 Kings 23:21-23). That is the last time the ark’s location is mentioned in the Scriptures. Forty years later, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon captured Jerusalem and raided the temple. Less than ten years after that, he returned, took what was left in the temple, and then burnt it and the city to the ground. So what happened to the ark? Was it taken by Nebuchadnezzar? Was it destroyed with the city? Or was it removed and hidden safely away, as evidently happened when Pharaoh Shishak of Egypt raided the temple during the reign of Solomon’s son Rehoboam? (“Evidently” because, if Shishak had managed to take the Ark, why did Josiah ask the Levites to return it? If the Ark was in Egypt—à la the plotline of Raiders of the Lost Ark—the Levites would not have possessed it and therefore could not have returned it.) Interestingly, Revelation 11:19 mentions the ark as being in heaven: “Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.” This verse has led some to speculate that the ark was taken up to heaven to be preserved there. But the ark that John sees in his vision of heaven is probably not the same ark that Moses constructed. We know that the articles in the tabernacle were “copies of the heavenly things” (Hebrews 9:23) and that the sanctuary itself was but “a copy and shadow of what is in heaven” (Hebrews 8:5). Revelation 11 deals with the sounding of the seventh trumpet, which ushers in a final round of judgments upon the earth. John’s glimpse of the ark is probably meant as a reminder that God has not forgotten His people, that He is present with them, and that true worship will soon be restored. The non-canonical book of 2 Maccabees reports that just prior to the Babylonian invasion, Jeremiah, “following a divine revelation, ordered that the tabernacle and the ark should accompany him and...he went off to the mountain which Moses climbed to see God's inheritance [i.e., Mt. Nebo; cf. Deuteronomy 31:1-4]. When Jeremiah arrived there, he found a room in a cave in which he put the tent, the ark, and the altar of incense; then he blocked up the entrance” (2:4-5). However, “Some of those who followed him came up intending to mark the path, but they could not find it. When Jeremiah heard of this, he reproved them: ‘The place is to remain unknown until God gathers his people together again and shows them mercy. Then the Lord will disclose these things, and the glory of the Lord will be seen in the cloud, just as it appeared in the time of Moses and when Solomon prayed that the Temple might be gloriously sanctified’” (2:6-8). It is not known if this secondhand (see 2:1) account is accurate; even if it is, we will not know until the Lord comes back, as the account itself claims. Other theories concerning the whereabouts of the lost ark include Rabbis Shlomo Goren and Yehuda Getz’s claim that it is hidden beneath the temple mount, having been buried there before Nebuchadnezzar could steal it away. Unfortunately, the temple mount is now home to the Dome of the Rock, an Islamic holy site, and the local Muslim community refuses to allow it to be excavated. So we cannot know if Rabbis Goren and Getz are correct. Explorer Vendyl Jones, among others, believes that an artifact found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, the enigmatic “Copper Scroll” of Qumran Cave 3, is actually a treasure map of sorts detailing the location of a number of precious treasures taken from the temple before the Babylonians arrived, among them the lost Ark of the Covenant. Whether or not this is true remains to be seen, as no one has yet been able to locate all of the necessary geographical landmarks listed on the scroll. Interestingly, some scholars speculate that the Copper Scroll may actually be the record referred to in 2 Maccabees 2:1 and 4, which describes Jeremiah hiding the ark. While this is an interesting speculation, it remains unsubstantiated. Former East African correspondent for “The Economist,” Graham Hanc*ck, published a book in 1992 entitled The Sign and the Seal: The Quest for the Lost Ark of the Covenant, in which he argued that the ark had been stowed away in Saint Mary of Zion's Church in Aksum, an ancient city of Ethiopia. Explorer Robert Cornuke of the B.A.S.E. Institute, also believes the Ark may now reside in Aksum. However, no one has yet found it there. Similarly, archaeologist Michael Sanders believes the ark is hidden away in an ancient Egyptian temple in the Israeli village of Djaharya, but he has yet to actually find it there. A doubtful Irish tradition maintains that the Ark is buried under the Hill of Tara in Ireland. Some scholars believe that this is the source of the Irish “pot of gold at the end of the rainbow” legend. Even less believable are the claims of Ron Wyatt and Tom Crotser, Wyatt claiming to actually have seen the lost Ark of the Covenant buried under Mt. Calvary and Crotser claiming to have seen it on Mt. Pisgah near Mt. Nebo. Both of these men are held in low esteem by the archaeological community, and neither has been able to substantiate the wild claims with any evidence. In the end, the ark remains lost to all but God. Interesting theories like the ones presented above continue to be offered, but the ark has yet to be found. The writer of 2 Maccabees may very well be right; we may not find out what happened to the lost Ark of the Covenant until the Lord Himself returns. Recommended Resource: Bible Answers for Almost all Your Questions by Elmer Towns
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ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant. The Old Ark contained the word of God, the ren commandments. The New Ark contained, in her womb, the Word of God, Jesus the Christ.
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clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	Quote from ludlowlowell: Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant. The Old Ark contained the word of God, the ren commandments. The New Ark contained, in her womb, the Word of God, Jesus the Christ. where in scripture does it say that "Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant"?
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clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	Many people mistakenly believe that the Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ conception was most assuredly immaculate—that is, without the stain of sin—but the Immaculate Conception does not refer to Jesus at all. The Immaculate Conception is a doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church in regards to Mary, Jesus’ mother. The official statement of the doctrine reads, “The blessed Virgin Mary to have been, from the first instant of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of Almighty God, in view of the merits of Christ Jesus the Savior of Mankind, preserved free from all stain of original sin” (Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, December 1854). Essentially, the Immaculate Conception is the belief that Mary was protected from original sin, that Mary did not have a sin nature and was, in fact, sinless. Catholics celebrate the Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary on December 8. Within Eastern Orthodoxy, December 9 is the date of the Feast of the Conception by St. Anne of the Most Holy Theotokos. (Anne is Mary’s mother, according to tradition.) The Eastern Church does not hold to the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, although they do consider Mary “all-holy,” that is, she never committed a sin. The Immaculate Conception is not a virgin birth. Catholics believe Mary was conceived the normal way, but God made her immune from imputed or inherited sin. For as long as she’s been in existence, Mary has been free of sin. This allowed her to be the “second Eve” to give birth to the “second Adam” (see 1 Corinthians 15:45). Overshadowed by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35), Mary was a pure and holy “ark,” fit to carry the Son of God. As the ark of the Lord in Moses’ day carried the elements of the Old Covenant within it, so Mary carried the Author of the New Covenant within her. The Roman Catholic Church bases its teaching of the Immaculate Conception on tradition along with a couple passages of Scripture. One is Genesis 3:15, the protoevangelium. There, God speaks to the serpent: “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers.” Catholics point to the fact that the conflict between the serpent and the woman is equal to the conflict between the serpent and the woman’s Offspring, and they explain this by saying the woman (Mary) must be as equally sinless as her Offspring (Christ). The other passage cited by Catholics in support of the Immaculate Conception is Luke 1:28, “The angel went to her and said, ‘Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.’” The Greek word translated “highly favored” can be rendered “favored with grace”; thus, according to Catholic dogma, Mary had a superabundance of grace, rendering her sinless, and that’s why God chose her to bear His Son. The Roman Catholic Church argues that the Immaculate Conception is necessary because, without it, Jesus would have received His flesh from one who was herself a slave to the devil, whose works Jesus came to destroy (1 John 3:8). Mary, as the mother of the Redeemer, needed for her flesh to be free from the power of sin, and God gave her that privilege. From her time in the womb, Mary was sanctified because of her special role in bringing the Son of God incarnate into the world. One problem with the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is that it is not taught in the Bible. Even Catholics admit that Scripture does not directly teach the Immaculate Conception. The Bible nowhere describes Mary as anything but an ordinary human female whom God chose to be the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ. Mary was undoubtedly a godly woman (Luke 1:28). Mary was surely a wonderful wife and mother. Jesus definitely loved and cherished His mother (John 19:27). But the Bible gives us no reason to believe that Mary was sinless. In fact, the Bible gives us every reason to believe that Jesus Christ is the only Person who was not “infected” by sin and never committed a sin (see Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 John 3:5). The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is neither biblical nor necessary. Jesus was miraculously conceived inside Mary, who was a virgin at the time. That is the biblical doctrine of the virgin birth. The Bible never hints that there was anything significant about Mary’s conception. Mary is not an exception to the Bible’s statement that “all have sinned” (Romans 3:23). Mary needed a Savior just like the rest of us (Luke 1:47). Recommended Resource: Reasoning from the Scriptures with Catholics by Ron Rhodes
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ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	But Clarity, not all the doctrines of Christ are contained in the Bible! Some of His doctrines are handed down oral teachings in the Church---see 2 Thessalonians 2:15 (2:14 in some translations). See also John 21:25.
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clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	The ability to trace one's church back to the “first church” through apostolic succession is an argument used by a number of different churches to assert that their church is the “one true church.” The Roman Catholic Church makes this claim. The Greek Orthodox Church makes this claim. Some Protestant denominations make this claim. Some of the “Christian” cults make this claim. How do we know which church is correct? The biblical answer is – it does not matter! The first church, its growth, doctrine, and practices, were recorded for us in the New Testament. Jesus, as well as His apostles, foretold that false teachers would arise, and indeed it is apparent from some of the New Testament epistles that these apostles had to fight against false teachers early on. Having a pedigree of apostolic succession or being able to trace a church's roots back to the "first church" is nowhere in Scripture given as a test for being the true church. What is given is repeated comparisons between what false teachers teach and what the first church taught, as recorded in Scripture. Whether a church is the "true church" or not is determined by comparing its teachings and practices to that of the New Testament church, as recorded in Scripture. For instance, in Acts 20:17-38, the Apostle Paul has an opportunity to talk to the church leaders in the large city of Ephesus one last time face to face. In that passage, he tells them that false teachers will not only come among them but will come FROM them (vv. 29-30). Paul does not set forth the teaching that they were to follow the "first" organized church as a safeguard for the truth. Rather, he commits them to the safekeeping of "God and to the word of His grace" (v. 32). Thus, truth could be determined by depending upon God and "the word of His grace" (i.e., Scripture, see John 10:35). This dependence upon the Word of God, rather than following certain individual "founders" is seen again in Galatians 1:8-9, in which Paul states, "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed." Thus, the basis for determining truth from error is not based upon even WHO it is that is teaching it, “we or an angel from heaven,” but whether it is the same gospel that they had already received – and this gospel is recorded in Scripture. Another example of this dependence upon the Word of God is found in 2 Peter. In this epistle, the Apostle Peter is fighting against false teachers. In doing so, Peter begins by mentioning that we have a "more sure word" to depend upon than even hearing the voice of God from heaven as they did at Jesus' transfiguration (2 Peter 1:16-21). This “more sure word” is the written Word of God. Peter later tells them again to be mindful of "the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets and the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Savior" (2 Peter 3:2). Both the words of the holy prophets and the commandments Jesus gave to the apostles are recorded in Scripture. How do we determine whether a church is teaching correct doctrine or not? The only infallible standard that Scripture says that we have is the Bible (Isaiah 8:20; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Matthew 5:18; John 10:35; Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 2:25; Galatians 1:6-9). Tradition is a part of every church, and that tradition must be compared to God's Word, lest it go against what is true (Mark 7:1-13). It is true that the cults and sometimes orthodox churches twist the interpretation of Scripture to support their practices; nonetheless, Scripture, when taken in context and faithfully studied, is able to guide one to the truth. The “first church” is the church that is recorded in the New Testament, especially in the Book of Acts and the Epistles of Paul. The New Testament church is the “original church” and the “one true church.” We can know this because it is described, in great detail, in Scripture. The church, as recorded in the New Testament, is God’s pattern and foundation for His church. On this basis, let’s examine the Roman Catholic claim that it is the “first church.” Nowhere in the New Testament will you find the “one true church” doing any of the following: praying to Mary, praying to the saints, venerating Mary, submitting to a pope, having a select priesthood, baptizing an infant, observing the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s Supper as sacraments, or passing on apostolic authority to successors of the apostles. All of these are core elements of the Roman Catholic faith. If most of the core elements of the Roman Catholic Church were not practiced by the New Testament Church (the first church and one true church), how then can the Roman Catholic Church be the first church? A study of the New Testament will clearly reveal that the Roman Catholic Church is not the same church as the church that is described in the New Testament.
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clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	The New Testament records the history of the church from approximately A.D. 30 to approximately A.D. 90. In the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries, history records several Roman Catholic doctrines and practices among early Christians. Is it not logical that the earliest Christians would be more likely to understand what the Apostles truly meant? Yes, it is logical, but there is one problem. Christians in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries were not the earliest Christians. Again, the New Testament records the doctrine and practice of the earliest Christians…and, the New Testament does not teach Roman Catholicism. What is the explanation for why the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century church began to exhibit signs of Roman Catholicism? The answer is simple – the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century (and following) church did not have the complete New Testament. Churches had portions of the New Testament, but the New Testament (and the full Bible) were not commonly available until after the invention of the printing press in A.D. 1440. The early church did its best in passing on the teachings of the apostles through oral tradition, and through extremely limited availability to the Word in written form. At the same time, it is easy to see how false doctrine could creep into a church that only had access to the Book of Galatians, for example. It is very interesting to note that the Protestant Reformation followed very closely after the invention of the printing press and the translation of the Bible into the common languages of the people. Once people began to study the Bible for themselves, it became very clear how far the Roman Catholic Church had departed from the church that is described in the New Testament. Scripture never mentions using "which church came first" as the basis for determining which is the "true" church. What it does teach is that one is to use Scripture as the determining factor as to which church is preaching the truth and thus is true to the first church. It is especially important to compare Scripture with a church's teaching on such core issues as the full deity and humanity of Christ, the atonement for sin through His blood on Calvary, salvation from sin by grace through faith, and the infallibility of the Scriptures. The “first church” and “one true church” is recorded in the New Testament. That is the church that all churches are to follow, emulate, and model themselves after. Recommended Resource: The Gospel According to Rome: Comparing Catholic Tradition and The Word of God by James McCarthy
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ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Clarity, there is no point in believing in the Bible if you don't believe in the Catholic Church, because it was the Catholic Church that put the Bible together in the first place.
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clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	ludlow... did you even read any of what i have posted? i do believe in the HOLY SCRIPTURE as the WORD of GOD. YOU are the one who obviously does not believe because nowhere in scripture is the 'catholic church' ordained by GOD in any way shape or form.
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cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	LUD, Stop that! You destroy the action of the Holy Spirit moving within a person when you tell your lies and confuse a person seeking Gods truth. What you're trying to do is watch onto potential searching souls and try to "convert" them before they are committed. You need to stop that shit! You ate driving souls away from God instead of gathering them to God. Even the Western Catholic Church doesn't seem converts by the tactics you are attempting to employ. You are not a Christian, LUD. You are a heretic and false prophet and the more you post your ridiculous "fake doctrine" crap the more you prove my charge. The Roman Catholic Church is a Christian faith, LUD. You are hurting the very church you malign.
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ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	I did read what you posted, Clatity, and I'm glad you believe that the Bible is the word of God. What I want to know is WHY you believe it. The only way we know that the Bible is the word of God is that the Catholic Church, with the teaching authority Jesus gave it, says so. First came Jesus, then came the Church, then came the Bible. Without tge authority of the Church guaranteeing the inspired nature of the Bible, the Bible is just another book, just another collection of history stories that may or may not be true.
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kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	Jesus didn't found the Catholic church and He didn't make popes infallible teachers which any sane person should be able to see for it was dozens of popes who taught that it was righteous and just to torture and burn to death at the stake untold thousands of their brethren calling them witches and heretics for a THOUSAND years.. AND Jesus didn't instruct His followers to unquestionably accept any book later compiled by the RCC. Indeed, Jesus sent into the world the Holy Spirit of truth, the spirit of the son as His REPLACEMENT TEACHER which you "Christians" ignore when the voice that speaks within conflicts with church dogma about the book they compiled. And this is exactly why you so-called Christians to this day PRETEND not to know it is horrible inhuman wickedness to stone and burn your brethren to death at the stake if they don't agree with you. The teachings of the church bind the mind of man to the book the church compiled and proclaimed to be all Gods inspired inerrant word/truth no matter what it says or what Jesus taught. Jesus revealed Gods true loving and caring nature and it should be obvious to all God/Jesus loving and sane people on this site that it is inhumane wickedness to stone and burn people to death at the stake for all sorts of absurd reasons and to slaughter men, women, children, infants and even animals in the name of God. That's not the nature of God that Jesus came into the world and revealed and if you professed Christians can't accept what Jesus revealed you most certainly are NOT His true followers. Christians should be striving to believe as Jesus believed and thus to become more like Him and this cannot be done without rejecting all scripture that is incompatible with His teachings. So long as you professed "Christians" accept the false church doctrine of the perfection of scripture you will remain morally confused and spiritually stagnant.
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slowpoke7 Hendersonville, TN 76, joined Feb. 2011	THANK YOU JESUS
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ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Quote from kb2222: Jesus didn't found the Catholic church and He didn't make popes infallible teachers which any sane person should be able to see for it was dozens of popes who taught that it was righteous and just to torture and burn to death at the stake untold thousands of their brethren calling them witches and heretics for a THOUSAND years.. AND Jesus didn't instruct His followers to unquestionably accept any book later compiled by the RCC. Indeed, Jesus sent into the world the Holy Spirit of truth, the spirit of the son as His REPLACEMENT TEACHER which you "Christians" ignore when the voice that speaks within conflicts with church dogma about the book they compiled. And this is exactly why you so-called Christians to this day PRETEND not to know it is horrible inhuman wickedness to stone and burn your brethren to death at the stake if they don't agree with you. The teachings of the church bind the mind of man to the book the church compiled and proclaimed to be all Gods inspired inerrant word/truth no matter what it says or what Jesus taught. Jesus revealed Gods true loving and caring nature and it should be obvious to all God/Jesus loving and sane people on this site that it is inhumane wickedness to stone and burn people to death at the stake for all sorts of absurd reasons and to slaughter men, women, children, infants and even animals in the name of God. That's not the nature of God that Jesus came into the world and revealed and if you professed Christians can't accept what Jesus revealed you most certainly are NOT His true followers. Christians should be striving to believe as Jesus believed and thus to become more like Him and this cannot be done without rejecting all scripture that is incompatible with His teachings. So long as you professed "Christians" accept the false church doctrine of the perfection of scripture you will remain morally confused and spiritually stagnant. Jesus founded the Catholic Church, appointed Peter its first pope, the apostles its first bishops, and gave the Church the Mass and the Holy Eucharist. If Jesus didn't found the Catholic Church, who did, when and where?
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clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	Quote from ludlowlowell: I did read what you posted, Clatity, and I'm glad you believe that the Bible is the word of God. What I want to know is WHY you believe it. The only way we know that the Bible is the word of God is that the Catholic Church, with the teaching authority Jesus gave it, says so. First came Jesus, then came the Church, then came the Bible. Without tge authority of the Church guaranteeing the inspired nature of the Bible, the Bible is just another book, just another collection of history stories that may or may not be true. wrong again.... first came creation by our CREATOR, then came sin, then came CHRIST, then the crucifixion for our salvation. nothing and noone in between matters
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kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: Jesus founded the Catholic Church, appointed Peter its first pope, the apostles its first bishops, and gave the Church the Mass and the Holy Eucharist. If Jesus didn't found the Catholic Church, who did, when and where? The early self professed "priests" founded the Catholic church and Peter was not their first pope. Jesus didn't found the Catholic church and He didn't make popes infallible teachers which any sane person should be able to see for it was dozens of popes who taught that it was righteous and just to torture and burn to death at the stake untold thousands of their brethren calling them witches and heretics for a THOUSAND years. AND Jesus didn't instruct His followers to unquestionably accept any book later compiled by the RCC. Indeed, Jesus sent into the world the Holy Spirit of truth, the spirit of the son as His REPLACEMENT TEACHER which you "Christians" ignore when the voice that speaks within conflicts with church dogma about the book they compiled. And this is exactly why you so-called Christians to this day PRETEND not to know it is horrible inhuman wickedness to stone and burn your brethren to death at the stake if they don't agree with you.
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ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Do you really think the Holy Spirit teaches that some strains of human beings are better than others, or that there are 700,000 gods? If so, why did the Holy Spirit wait until 1955 to teach this?
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kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	Your fall back position of reasserting what has been discussed many times as a DISTRACTION from my post comments is dishonest and deplorable. You are a deceitful man who obviously enjoys your perverted thinking, Ludlow.
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ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Did you ever notice that a lot of people who claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit sometimes come up with the most non-Christian, unjust, stuff imaginable?
3/17/2017 7:15:12 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	Yes, and the Catholic church with their barbarism towards humanity comes immediately to mind.
3/17/2017 7:29:22 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	No organization in the history of the world has done more work for the poor and suffering than the Catholic Church. Have you ever heard of Father Damian of Molokai?
3/17/2017 7:46:52 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	Are you going to reply to the substance of my post or keep deceitfully evading it, Ludlow? The early self professed "priests" founded the Catholic church and Peter was not their first pope. Jesus didn't found the Catholic church and He didn't make popes infallible teachers which any sane person should be able to see for it was dozens of popes who taught that it was righteous and just to torture and burn to death at the stake untold thousands of their brethren calling them witches and heretics for a THOUSAND years. AND Jesus didn't instruct His followers to unquestionably accept any book later compiled by the RCC. Indeed, Jesus sent into the world the Holy Spirit of truth, the spirit of the son as His REPLACEMENT TEACHER which you "Christians" ignore when the voice that speaks within conflicts with church dogma about the book they compiled. And this is exactly why you so-called Christians to this day PRETEND not to know it is horrible inhuman wickedness to stone and burn your brethren to death at the stake if they don't agree with you. The teachings of the church bind the mind of man to the book the church compiled and proclaimed to be all Gods inspired inerrant word/truth no matter what it says or what Jesus taught. Jesus revealed Gods true loving and caring nature and it should be obvious to all God/Jesus loving and sane people on this site that it is inhumane wickedness to stone and burn people to death at the stake for all sorts of absurd reasons and to slaughter men, women, children, infants and even animals in the name of God. That's not the nature of God that Jesus came into the world and revealed and if you professed Christians can't accept what Jesus revealed you most certainly are NOT His true followers. Christians should be striving to believe as Jesus believed and thus to become more like Him and this cannot be done without rejecting all scripture that is incompatible with His teachings. So long as you professed "Christians" accept the false church doctrine of the perfection of scripture you will remain morally confused and spiritually stagnant.
3/18/2017 3:35:16 AM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	I don't see a question in any of that statement, KB.
3/18/2017 10:35:09 AM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	That's because I didn't ask any question, Ludlow. For once in your many years on this forum will you please honestly state whatever disagreement you have with each statement contained in my post? Here I will make it easier for you by re-posting what I said so that when you press the quote button what I said will be in this post and you can then post your comments to each statement in bold. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The early self professed "priests" founded the Catholic church and Peter was not their first pope. Jesus didn't found the Catholic church and He didn't make popes infallible teachers which any sane person should be able to see for it was dozens of popes who taught that it was righteous and just to torture and burn to death at the stake untold thousands of their brethren calling them witches and heretics for a THOUSAND years. AND Jesus didn't instruct His followers to unquestionably accept any book later compiled by the RCC. Indeed, Jesus sent into the world the Holy Spirit of truth, the spirit of the son as His REPLACEMENT TEACHER which you "Christians" ignore when the voice that speaks within conflicts with church dogma about the book they compiled. And this is exactly why you so-called Christians to this day PRETEND not to know it is horrible inhuman wickedness to stone and burn your brethren to death at the stake if they don't agree with you. The teachings of the church bind the mind of man to the book the church compiled and proclaimed to be all Gods inspired inerrant word/truth no matter what it says or what Jesus taught. Jesus revealed Gods true loving and caring nature and it should be obvious to all God/Jesus loving and sane people on this site that it is inhumane wickedness to stone and burn people to death at the stake for all sorts of absurd reasons and to slaughter men, women, children, infants and even animals in the name of God. That's not the nature of God that Jesus came into the world and revealed and if you professed Christians can't accept what Jesus revealed you most certainly are NOT His true followers. Christians should be striving to believe as Jesus believed and thus to become more like Him and this cannot be done without rejecting all scripture that is incompatible with His teachings. So long as you professed "Christians" accept the false church doctrine of the perfection of scripture you will remain morally confused and spiritually stagnant.
3/18/2017 10:37:54 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	So when Jesus walked the earth, He taught that there were 699,999 other gods just like Him, and that some strains of people were inferior and degenerate, and after two or three generations some of the Christian leaders started calling themselves priests, and they corrupted tge original pure gospel and started teaching that there is only one God, only one Son of God, and that the races are equal. Is that what you're saying happened?
3/19/2017 9:21:06 AM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	For once in your many years on this forum will you please honestly state whatever disagreement you have with each statement contained in my post, Ludlow? Why is it you can't bring yourself to honestly respond, Ludlow?
3/19/2017 1:06:31 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	All non-Catholic Christians say that their particular brand of Christianity is the original, "pure" Christianity, but those mean old bad old early bishops and priests corrupted it into Catholicism. When shown that as early as 110 a.d. (the writings of Sts. Polycarp and Ignatius of Antioch, both of whom knew Peter and John personally) that the early Christians believed all the things Catholics do today, they say, oh, those mean old bad old bishops and priests corrupted the Christian faith within the first generation. Never mind that Jesus promised to stay with the Church until the end of the world. Never mind that the Christians, leaders and laypeople, were proving their love for their Savior with their blood (the martyrs, including the above-mentioned Polycarp and Ignatius of Antioch). But the position of the Urantia believers is particularly ridiculous. The Urantia believers want us to believe that Jesus taught there were 700,000 "creator sons" (pagan gods), and mean old bad old bishops corrupted that belief, in the very first generation of Christians, into the belief that there is only one God, and only one begotten Son of God, and that they were willing to suffer horrible torture and death for this invented belief. And the Urantia believers want us to believe that the Good Lord Jesus Christ went around teaching eugenics, teaching that "inferior" and "degenerate" people, like dark-skinned people and handicapped people, should be sterilized so they can't reproduce, and those mean old bad old first generation bishops and priests corrupted this into the belief that all peoples, of whatever race or physical deformity, were welcomed into the Kingdom of God. Think about it, KB. It's utterly absurd!
3/19/2017 1:18:04 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	For once in your many years on this forum will you please honestly state whatever disagreement you have with each statement contained in my post, Ludlow? Why is it you can't bring yourself to honestly respond, Ludlow?
3/19/2017 3:47:14 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
slowpoke7 Hendersonville, TN 76, joined Feb. 2011	THANK YOU JESUS
3/20/2017 3:28:42 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	For once in your many years on this forum will you please honestly state whatever disagreement you have with each statement contained in my post, Ludlow? Why is it you can't bring yourself to honestly respond, Ludlow?
3/20/2017 3:58:03 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	This is my response, KB, the response I have always given you: Jesus did found the Catholic Church and this is an historical fact. The New Testament Church had a pope (Peter), bishops (the apostles), priests, deacons, Mass, Communion, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, one God only (not 700,000 gods), the equality of the races (no talk of eugenics or of sterilizing "inferior" or "degenerate" people), Confession, prayer to the saints, prayers for the dead, belief in the necessity of good works, and a belief in the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. Jesus did send the Holy Spirit, not to replace His teachings, not to replace the teaching authority of the Church, but so that we could understand these teachings. Do you feel drawn to the Catholic Church? The Holy Spirit is speaking to you. Do you feel repelled by the Catholic Church? The Holy Spirit is not speaking to you. In all cases pray for His guidance and wisdom.
3/20/2017 4:46:21 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	Anyone such as you, Ludlow, who asserts it was righteous and just to stone and burn your brethren to death at the stake if they don't believe like you want them to do and that is what Jesus ordered man to do is a blasphemous fool and that's why you refuse to respond as requested to my post. your corrupt Catholic church after compiling the Bible went on horribly torturing and burning untold thousands of their brethren to death at the stake for what you have exclaimed refusing to accept the "peace and love" of the Catholic Church as if you are so corrupt you are unable to distinguish between righteousness and wickedness or you just don't care. You are a corrupt man, Ludlow, and from all the constant lies and false claims in your posts you seem to enjoy it. You do Satan's work not Gods, Ludlow.
3/20/2017 6:53:31 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Would it be okay to torture people if they were of an inferior or degenerate strain?
3/20/2017 7:33:08 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: Would it be okay to torture people if they were of an inferior or degenerate strain? This is just your satanic way of avoiding the truth of my post and like Satan you don't really like truth, indeed, show contempt for truth, if it doesn't serve your corrupt mind.
3/21/2017 5:35:00 AM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	You don't consider racist eugenics to be satanic and corrupt?
3/21/2017 10:31:36 AM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: You don't consider racist eugenics to be satanic and corrupt? You just spew out crap like this because you can't honestly refute what I said in my post about you and your historically murderous self-serving Catholic church. You are so corrupt and such a hypocrite. What is this that you call "racist eugenics? Define it, Ludlow. Whatever you think it is how does it in your mind bother you when you believe it is righteous and just to stone and burn people to death at the stake if they don't believe as you do? The UB does not advocate anything remotely similar to what I think you mean by racist eugenics. The UB advocates "racial improvement" in a humane manner not racists eugenics and it leaves the matter solely in the hands of mankind to resolve. You are a sick and corrupt man, Ludlow, and if you think you are not then honestly refute what I said in my post herewith repeated... Anyone such as you, Ludlow, who asserts it was righteous and just to stone and burn your brethren to death at the stake if they don't believe like you want them to do and that is what Jesus ordered man to do is a blasphemous fool and that's why you refuse to respond as requested to my post. your corrupt Catholic church after compiling the Bible went on horribly torturing and burning untold thousands of their brethren to death at the stake for what you have exclaimed refusing to accept the "peace and love" of the Catholic Church as if you are so corrupt you are unable to distinguish between righteousness and wickedness or you just don't care. You are a corrupt man, Ludlow, and from all the constant lies and false claims in your posts you seem to enjoy it. You do Satan's work not Gods, Ludlow.
3/21/2017 11:12:05 AM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 64, joined Feb. 2008	Was it moral for whitey Sheriff Billy Bob to lynch black people? After all, according to William Sadler and the Kellogg family, black people are inferior and degenerate.
3/21/2017 5:18:13 PM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 76, joined Apr. 2011	You are pathetically corrupt and shameless, Ludlow.
5/30/2017 8:48:30 AM	Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. \| Page 6
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Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant. | Page 6