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4/10/2017 9:35:54 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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Ludlow says:
"And if Jesus had had a human father, Jesus would not have been the Incarnate Son of God."
=============================================================================
Yes, Jesus would have been the Incarnate Son of God if God made Him that. Who are you to say what God can and cannot do? You don't even love God according to Jesus. You are a very sick Cathlick man.
Jesus wants to know, ""Why call ye me, [the Incarnate Son of God], and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46)
Answer Him. Say, "Jesus, the reason I refuse to obey you is because..."
Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
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4/11/2017 12:38:27 AM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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If Jesus had a human father, how did He become God?
You need to be careful about calling people "fool", KB. Jesus said that was a sin. I guess your perfect record of sinlessness is now broken, huh.
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4/11/2017 1:10:04 AM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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Ludlow says:
"If Jesus had a human father, how did He become God?"
====================================================================
Jesus was God before He came here. And it had nothing to do with the abomination that is the cathlick church.
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4/11/2017 8:38:03 AM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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Knowing the (4) original texts of the Gospel did not include the myth birth, explains the gap, when Jesus was 12 until 30 when He is getting baptized by John in Matthew and Luke.
The scriptures make better sense now.
This really irks me about the Roman pagan Catholics. Knowing now what I do, makes it difficult to see any "TRUTH", inside that epitome of hell called the Catholic sanctuary of "lies."
Just a pathetic excuse for human beings, to mislead billions of lives, from the "TRUTH" about Christ. No doubt, they will pay for this, and every soul will be held against them.
[Edited 4/11/2017 8:38:49 AM ]
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4/11/2017 8:50:43 AM |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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Iam, 2 of the 4 gospels do report the birth of Christ.
And since you believe there is something strange about the life of Jesus between 13 & 30 it means you haven't read the Bible carefully or don't understand what it says.
As soon as Jesus became of age (13) and bar mitzvah'd at the temple he began verbalizing Gods word.
If you pay attention to what he was doing on the Tuesday before Good Friday will see that Jesus was no stranger at temple.
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4/11/2017 9:51:00 AM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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There is no need to assume that, Cup. Considering, "the real factual and original scrolls from (3) of the (4) Gospels, read like Mark. So there "never" was, a birth account in Matthew or Luke ,until they added it around 325 AD. So why speculate, what Christ was doing, around ages 13 to 30? When He clearly was doing, what he had done before, on His other physical appearances as God. Which is to, just, show up.
This time around, as the Messiah, to die for us.
[Edited 4/11/2017 9:52:10 AM ]
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4/11/2017 9:56:23 AM |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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Iam, it is "food for thought" not conviction. Understand that from the git-go.
People get locked into an idea or conception and with stubborn, unbendable consideration they will die and go to their graves in ignorance.
Get them thinking, Iam, and they may begin believing the truth.
I live my God and thank him for my salvation. Never doubt that!
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4/11/2017 10:57:23 AM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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I understand
Some though, need to be challenged. It is not like anyone will lose their salvation, by, believing in the birth. I just want to reveal, how evil, the Catholic regime was. And to just get an idea of how many were deceived, all of these years.
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4/11/2017 11:40:15 AM |
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freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011
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Why?
It is God , we should be concerned about knowing and devoted to, not the characters mentioned with God.
But due to sure incompetence, the Roman "pagans" "ASSUMED", to have a God on the present scene means he had to be born, first.
Nowhere, does it mention, Melchizedek's origin. But, he was the first preacher, on the scene. Abraham's, personal preacher/teacher.
iam_resurrected,
Is your point that Jesus had an Earthly male contributor to His DNA? If you believe that, then you have no Unblemished Passover Lamb.
Are you one of those guys who believe you can and do follow Jesus' example perfectly and that will get you into heaven?
Or do you recognize your need for the blood sacrifice of the Passover Lamb? It tis the season of The Passover Lamb.
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4/11/2017 11:52:34 AM |
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freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011
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This article specifies, towards Luke, as one of the Books being tampered with by the pagan Romans. I do respect the "pagans", for not tampering, with the written accounts of the actual Disciples (John).
It is hard to add, a "myth birth", to a manuscript beginning with, Christ was in the BEGINNING as GOD the WORD.
John, puts Christ, right at the time of Genesis 1:1. After that confirmation, there are no outlets, to add myth to it.
But adding the "myth account, to two (2) of the Gospels, should make you question the account. The Gospels, are directly, about Christ. Who knew Christ, obviously better, than John? No One, and why John begins with: "In the Beginning was (CHRIST) the WORD and He is GOD", rather than, a myth birth account.
The lineage of Jesus is only accounted for in 2 gospels.
And they differ.
How many times does something have to appear in the Bible for it to be God-Breathed-Scripture?
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-genealogy.html
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4/11/2017 1:30:37 PM |
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isna_la_wica
Brantford, ON
63, joined Mar. 2012
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This is the Jewish perspective on Isiah 7: 14 :
The answer is simply. This passage in Isaiah isn’t speaking about the Messiah or a virgin birth.
Let’s begin by examining the context of the seventh chapter of Isaiah. In the same way that America and Korea were divided into North and South during their Civil wars, at this point in Jewish history the Jewish nation was divided into two kingdoms,[2] known as the Southern Kingdom of Judea and the Northern Kingdom of Israel. Each kingdom had its own capital, king and enemies.
The Southern Kingdom of Judea had its capital in Jerusalem and was ruled by King Ahaz. The Northern Kingdom of Israel had its capital in Samaria and was ruled by King Pekah. To the north of both these kingdoms was a third, non-Jewish ruler, King Resin of Aram (Syria) whose capital was Damascus.
God dispatched the prophet Isaiah and one of his sons to warn King Ahaz that the northern kingdom had formed an alliance with this King Rezin They had joined forces to “wage war against Jerusalem.” Isaiah tells King Ahaz (verse 4) that he should not be afraid because God
will be with him and the invasion with fail. Additionally, within 65 years the northern kingdom will cease to exist and its 10 tribes would be led into exile by Assyria. This is where the idea of ten lost tribes originates.
Although Ahaz was an evil king, God would continue to protect Jerusalem in the merit of his righteous predecessors. When Ahaz ignores Isaiah’s warning the prophet tells him to request a sign from God. After Ahaz refuses this offer, Isaiah informs him that God will give him a sign despite his stubbornness.
He tells King Ahaz that:
“The Lord Himself will give you a sign. Behold the Almah (?????????) shall conceive and give birth to a son and she shall call his name Immanuel.” Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah 7:14 - A Virgin Birth? - Jews for Judaism
j4j.me › Articles
Then the article goes on to say that the word used simply meant, young lady.
But the Jews do not have Matthew 1:22 : "Amplified Bible (AMP)
22 All this happened in order to fulfill what the Lord had spoken through the [a]prophet [Isaiah]":
Which tells us that indeed, it was about the virgin birth .
And as for translation, whether it is simply "girl" or Virgin, my Amplified Bible adds the following foot note after the verse :
Isaiah 7:14Amplified Bible (AMP)
14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Listen carefully, the [a]virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and she will call his name Immanuel (God with us).
Footnotes:
Isaiah 7:14 This prophecy of the virgin is declared in Matt 1:22, 23 to be fulfilled in the birth of Jesus. There has been a great deal of discussion over the Hebrew word found here for virgin (almah) and the word that Matthew uses (parthenos). The latter refers unambiguously to a virgin, while the former (almah) has been said to refer to a young woman, in contrast to the Hebrew word bethulah, which is the equivalent of the Gr parthenos. It has also been noted that the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT, has parthenos here for almah, and that Matt 1:23 is taken from the Septuagint. Some have wondered why the Septuagint translators used the more specific word parthenos. It is fair to say that this question is the result of oversimplifying the vocabulary and misinterpreting the distinctions. The Hebrew words almah and bethulah can actually refer to the same kind of woman; almah is a youthful woman of marriageable age, one who has not yet had her first child, while bethulah is one who has not been touched in an intimate way. Furthermore, in the present context it would be unthinkable to infer that the woman might have had sexual relations outside of marriage. So the well-known translation of “young woman” for almah, while technically not incorrect, can be viewed as too ambiguous for the Hebrew word and the context. Parthenos was an appropriate choice in the Greek. Another word, kore (for “girl”) could have been used, but it has a wider range of meaning than the Heb almah (Mark uses a related word, korasion, to translate Jesus’ Aramaic word talitha). It should also be acknowledged from a theological perspective that when Matthew cites the verse with parthenos, he thereby authenticates it as inspired
Search Results
Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself will give - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+7%3A14
If one follows the New Testament, unlike the Jews, then its clear, the Virgin birth was prophesied in Isiah and according to Mathew and Mark, was full filled .
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4/11/2017 2:40:33 PM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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If Jesus was not born of a virgin---if Jesus had had a human for a father---He would not be the Incarnate Son of God.
Some say Jesus was only another man, albeit a perfect one, until John baptized Him, at which time He miraculously became the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. If this were true, (1) Jesus wouldn't be a begotten Son, only an adopted one like the rest of us, and (2) He would have to have become a totally different Person at that point. No, Jesus was born with God as His natural Father and Mary His natural mother, making Him 100% God and 100% man from the moment of His conception.
And Iam Resurrected, you have it backward---it is those who DO believe in the Church who are saved, and those who reject are the ones who are doomed. Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.
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4/11/2017 2:57:03 PM |
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isna_la_wica
Brantford, ON
63, joined Mar. 2012
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If Jesus was not born of a virgin---if Jesus had had a human for a father---He would not be the Incarnate Son of God.
Some say Jesus was only another man, albeit a perfect one, until John baptized Him, at which time He miraculously became the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. If this were true, (1) Jesus wouldn't be a begotten Son, only an adopted one like the rest of us, and (2) He would have to have become a totally different Person at that point. No, Jesus was born with God as His natural Father and Mary His natural mother, making Him 100% God and 100% man from the moment of His conception.
And Iam Resurrected, you have it backward---it is those who DO believe in the Church who are saved, and those who reject are the ones who are doomed. Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.
I am missing that story, in my Amplified, YLT, KJV and even Douay Rheiems .
Looking up the thief on the cross, could not find where he managed to escape and go to a church, get baptized, do confession to a priest , have holy water sprinkled on him or any thing like that.
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4/11/2017 3:16:36 PM |
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kb2222
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
And if Jesus had had a human father, Jesus would not have been the Incarnate Son of God.
God is Spirit and Jesus was both human and divine and if Joseph was indeed the father of the flesh that would not alter one bit Jesus being God in Spirit.
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4/11/2017 3:27:41 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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There is no need to assume that, Cup. Considering, "the real factual and original scrolls from (3) of the (4) Gospels, read like Mark. So there "never" was, a birth account in Matthew or Luke ,until they added it around 325 AD. So why speculate, what Christ was doing, around ages 13 to 30? When He clearly was doing, what he had done before, on His other physical appearances as God. Which is to, just, show up.
This time around, as the Messiah, to die for us.
By the way, Jesus' entire and complete life story as recorded at the time by God's agents, angels and such, including between the ages of 13 to 30, are in The Urantia Book.
Just sayin'.
PAPER 124 The Later Childhood of Jesus
0. The Later Childhood of Jesus
1. Jesus' Ninth Year (A.D. 3)
2. The Tenth Year (A.D. 4)
3. The Eleventh Year (A.D. 5)
4. The Twelfth Year (A.D. 6)
5. His Thirteenth Year (A.D. 7)
6. The Journey to Jerusalem
PAPER 125 Jesus at Jerusalem
0. Jesus at Jerusalem
1. Jesus Views the Temple
2. Jesus and the Passover
3. Departure of Joseph and Mary
4. First and Second Days in the Temple
5. The Third Day in the Temple
6. The Fourth Day in the Temple
PAPER 126 The Two Crucial Years
0. The Two Crucial Years
1. His Fourteenth Year (A.D. 8)
2. The Death of Joseph
3. The Fifteenth Year (A.D. 9)
4. First Sermon in the Synagogue
5. The Financial Struggle
PAPER 127 The Adolescent Years
0. The Adolescent Years
1. The Sixteenth Year (A.D. 10)
2. The Seventeenth Year (A.D. 11)
3. The Eighteenth Year (A.D. 12)
4. The Nineteenth Year (A.D. 13)
5. Rebecca, the Daughter of Ezra
6. His Twentieth Year (A.D. 14)
PAPER 128 Jesus' Early Manhood
0. Jesus' Early Manhood
1. The Twenty-First Year (A.D. 15)
2. The Twenty-Second Year (A.D. 16)
3. The Twenty-Third Year (A.D. 17)
4. The Damascus Episode
5. The Twenty-Fourth Year (A.D. 18)
6. The Twenty-Fifth Year (A.D. 19)
7. The Twenty-Sixth Year (A.D. 20)
PAPER 129 The Later Adult Life of Jesus
0. The Later Adult Life of Jesus
1. The Twenty-Seventh Year (A.D. 21)
2. The Twenty-Eighth Year (A.D. 22)
3. The Twenty-Ninth Year (A.D. 23)
4. The Human Jesus
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4/11/2017 3:34:48 PM |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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No thanks, FJO.
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4/11/2017 3:36:29 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
If Jesus was not born of a virgin---if Jesus had had a human for a father---He would not be the Incarnate Son of God.
Some say Jesus was only another man, albeit a perfect one, until John baptized Him, at which time He miraculously became the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. If this were true, (1) Jesus wouldn't be a begotten Son, only an adopted one like the rest of us, and (2) He would have to have become a totally different Person at that point. No, Jesus was born with God as His natural Father and Mary His natural mother, making Him 100% God and 100% man from the moment of His conception.
And Iam Resurrected, you have it backward---it is those who DO believe in the Church who are saved, and those who reject are the ones who are doomed. Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.
=============================================================================
You are a very sick, very ignorant Cathlick man, Lud and you savor of the Evil One. You refuse to obey Jesus, you defy Him, you contradict Him, and even your pope says you do evil.
"We Catholics have some — and not some, many — who believe they possess the absolute truth and go ahead dirtying the other with calumny, with disinformation, and doing evil. They do evil. I say this because it is my Church." [The pope] further added that "fundamentalism is more idolatry than actual religion, warning that 'ideas and false certainties' can take the place of faith, love, and God." -Pope Francis
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4/11/2017 3:38:50 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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No thanks, FJO.
Fine.
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4/11/2017 3:49:54 PM |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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FJO -- We've been over this issue for months.
Thousands and thousands of years of biblical history, in many, many forms which has not faltered, been proved erroneous, or been disproved OR changed or smothered out though it has been challenged from my Savior's birth cannot be ursurped by an upstart looking for glory by contriving a cultist rendition of the New Testament by questionable person's in Chicago in the 1950s.
My God is an awesome God.
You may believe as you choose but I dont have to conform, just respect your choice.
God will render judgement.
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4/11/2017 4:15:09 PM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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Here are the verses originally used in the Gospels.
(1)
There appeared a certain man named Jesus of about thirty years of age, who chose us.
And when he came to Capernaum, he entered into the house of Simon whose surname
is Peter, and opened his mouth and said: "As I passed the Lake of Tiberias, I chose John
and James the sons of Zebedee, and Simon and Andrew and Thaddeus and Simon the
Zealot and Judas the Iscariot, and you, Matthew, I called as you sat at the receipt of
custom, and you followed me. You, therefore, I will to be twelve apostles for a testimony
unto Israel."
(2)
It came to pass that John was baptzing; and there went out to him Pharisees and were
baptized, and all of Jerusalem.
And John had a garment of camel`s hair and a leather girdle about his loins, and
his food, as it is said, was wild honey, the taste if which was that of manna, as a cake
dipped in oil.
Thus they were resolved to pervert the truth into a lie and put a cake in the place of locusts.
(3)
It came to pass in the days of Herod the king of Judaea, when Caiaphas was high priest,
that there came one, John by name, and baptized with the baptism of repentance in
the river Jordan. It was said of him that he was of the lineage of Aaron the priest, a
son of Zacharias and Elisabeth : and all went out to him.
(4)
When the people were baptized, Jesus also came and was baptized by John.
And as he came up from the water, the heavens was opened and he saw the
Holy Spirit in the form of a dove that descended and entered into him.
And a voice sounded from Heaven that said:
"You are my beloved Son, in you I am well pleased. "
And again: " I have this day begotten you".
And immediately a great light shone round about the place.
When John saw this, it is said, he said unto him :
"Who are you, Lord?"
And again a voice from Heaven rang out to him:
"This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."
And then, it is said, John fell down before him and said:
"I beseech you, Lord, baptize me."
But he prevented him and said:
"Suffer it; for thus it is fitting that everything should be fulfilled."
(5)
"Behold, your mother and your brethren stand without." namely:
"Who is my mother and who are my brethren?"
And he stretched his hand towards his disciples and said:
"These are my brethren and mother and sisters, who do the will of my Father."
(6)
"I am come to do away with sacrfices, and if you cease not sacrificing,
the wrath of God will not cease from you."
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4/11/2017 4:25:03 PM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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"For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts."
--Malachi 1:11
This is an Old Testament prophecy of the coming of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which would be offered all over the world. At any given time of day somewhere in the world a Mass is being offered.
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4/11/2017 4:28:10 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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FJO -- We've been over this issue for months.
Thousands and thousands of years of biblical history, in many, many forms which has not faltered, been proved erroneous, or been disproved OR changed or smothered out though it has been challenged from my Savior's birth cannot be ursurped by an upstart looking for glory by contriving a cultist rendition of the New Testament by questionable person's in Chicago in the 1950s.
My God is an awesome God.
You may believe as you choose but I dont have to conform, just respect your choice.
God will render judgement.
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
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4/11/2017 4:31:03 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
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4/12/2017 12:16:54 PM |
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kb2222
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011
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*
Quote from ludlowlowell:
And if Jesus had had a human father, Jesus would not have been the Incarnate Son of God.
God is Spirit and Jesus was both human and divine and if Joseph was indeed the father of the flesh that would not alter one bit Jesus being God in Spirit.
And you say what, Ludlow?
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4/12/2017 12:46:08 PM |
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freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011
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Here are the verses originally used in the Gospels.
...
(6)
"I am come to do away with sacrfices, and if you cease not sacrificing,
the wrath of God will not cease from you."
iam_resurrected,
Speaking of sacrifices:
Unblemished Passover Lamb (Page 5 4/11/2017 11:40:15 AM)
and
Jesus' Two Lineages (Page 5 4/11/2017 11:52:34 AM)
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4/12/2017 4:15:38 PM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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Why is it hard for people to believe in the virgin birth of Christ? Is not God powerful enough to accomplish this?
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4/12/2017 4:57:53 PM |
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kb2222
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011
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*
*
Quote from ludlowlowell:
And if Jesus had had a human father, Jesus would not have been the Incarnate Son of God.
God is Spirit and Jesus was both human and divine and if Joseph was indeed the father of the flesh that would not alter one bit Jesus being God in Spirit.
And you say what, Ludlow?
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4/12/2017 5:03:07 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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Ludlow says:
"Why is it hard for people to believe in the virgin birth of Christ? Is not God powerful enough to accomplish this?"
====================================================================================
Why is it hard for Ludlow to believe Joseph and Mary were normal people, who married normally, had normal sexual relations, and conceived Jesus normally? Is not God powerful enough to accomplish this?
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4/12/2017 5:26:11 PM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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Do you know who was Constantine's personal deity? Apollo
We know Constantine's mother was a pagan priestess.
What does the bible say about Constantine's deity, Apollo?
Revelation 9:11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
11
They have a king over them-the messenger of the submerged chaos. His Hebrew name is Abaddon, and in Greek he has the name Apollyon."
SO the man controlling the council in 325 AD overseeing the version of the bible we use, was in FACT, worshipping a DEMON KING as his personal God and Savior.
GUESS WHAT?
Apollo was born of a "VIRGIN BIRTH"!! (GREEK MYTH)
IMAGINE THAT:
Constantine put Christ equal to a DEMON KING, of the BOTTOMLESS PIT!!
IF you are not angry over that, you need to recheck your personal walk in GOD Yahshua!!
[Edited 4/12/2017 5:29:37 PM ]
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4/12/2017 5:30:47 PM |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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I have a couple of legitimate questions.
If Jesus was born of a human virgin who was born with the stain of sin upon her, even with God being Jesus' biological father, then Jesus was born as a human with the stain of sin upon him, also?
So, if Jesus was born with the stain of sin upon him (and we know that he did as evidenced by his baptism by John and the Holy Spirit descending upon him) [All we born again Christians know the Holy Spirit does not enter into our human temple of God until we have confessed our sins and been cleansed by the grace of God, so it could have been no different for Jesus] how could he have been born "sinless"?
Jesus couldn't have been born sinless as a human and have been able to experience life as an earthly human soul so that people would accept him and follow his teachings. Jesus had to have been born in sin, also?
Is that why Mary was an unmarried female who gave birth to a bastard child?
Is this a story of acceptance of children born out-of-wedlock and is following the concept of four previous biblical women who had birthed children out-of-wedlock?
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4/12/2017 5:30:56 PM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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If Nesus was not born to a virgin then He is nust another human being, not God Incarnate. Isaiah prophesied that Jesus would be born to a virgin, and He was.
Bible! Bible! Bible! cry the Protestants. Those nasty old Catholics won't go by the Bible! But the Bible clearly says, in three different books, that Jesus was born of a virgin.
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4/12/2017 5:38:03 PM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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the view of the "original Gospels" begin with, Herod being king and John baptizing Christ just after he picked His 12 Disciples. Why does Christ have to be like all of the "myth deities" with a birth or specifically PAGAN "virgin birth?"
Why would God want to be in the same category as 1,000 other gods?
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4/12/2017 5:39:01 PM |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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LUD, in Isiah, who was that unmarried woman who birthed a child out-of-wedlock?
And those 3 NT books you cite, Lud, are repitiously copied from one scribe to another -- wouldn't that make them a continuation of 1 book?
And those book(s) don't use a Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic word for VIRGIN ---- they use the the word definingba YOUNG WOMAN.
Miriam (Mary) was 13 (age of womanhood for a Jewish female) when she became impregnated.
So Mary was a young woman.
The word denoting a VIRGIN didnt come into account until Roman Catholic Church translated scripture into Latin, isn't that correct?
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4/12/2017 7:09:53 PM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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Cup, according to Luke, when the angel Gabriel told Mary she was going to give birth to the messiah/savior, she said, how can this be, I know not man.
That settles that.
Women in most cultures of the world, past and present, marry in their early teens, and it is reasonable to assume Mary was age 13 to 16. But even if she were 30 or 35 the scripture is clear that Mary was a virgin when she bore Jesus. Are there stories of virgin births in paganism? Of course---the devil knew, because of Isaiah, that the Messiah would be born to a virgin, so he inspired all jinds of virgin birth stories among the pagans. The devil also must have deduced that the Messiah would give his flesh and blood to be ate and drank, so that's why inspired pagans to become cannibals. That's what the devil does---he mocks things that are holy.
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4/12/2017 8:32:23 PM |
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blake6972
Bunker Hill, WV
45, joined Jul. 2013
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I don't have time to read through all this thread, but I will say this...
Without the virgin birth there is NO SALVATION.
No redemption.
Of course the virgin birth was real.
Duh.
Anyone who says it is a myth doesn't know The Word of God .
God is NOT the author of confusion.
Satan is the father of lies.
He ain't nothing but a foot stool.
It is FINISHED!!!
The moment the hammer hit the first nail he knew he was truly defeated.
But, he wants to destroy as many lives as possible before he goes to that bottomless pit.
Hence stupid stories about how the virgin birth isn't true.
It is to be expected though, and some.
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4/12/2017 8:32:43 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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Ludlow says:
"Cup, according to Luke, when the angel Gabriel told Mary she was going to give birth to the messiah/savior, she said, how can this be, I know not man. That settles that."
==================================================================================
But it doesn't settle anything. The flaw is in the statement, "according to Luke." Whoever it was who wrote that "gospel" simply added that in.
You don't even believe Jesus or love God enough to obey Him, so how is it that you believe everything Luke supposedly said?
The only reason you push this is because you would defy your church if you didn't try to defend what they push.
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4/12/2017 9:26:54 PM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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hahahahahaha LUD knows that the Cathlicks pulled a demonic tussle with the bible, and he is still trying to justify their Satanic works.
Just pitiful
Brainwashed. is not a sincere walk in God. That is what you call, stupidity under mind control.
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4/12/2017 10:17:10 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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hahahahahaha LUD knows that the Cathlicks pulled a demonic tussle with the bible, and he is still trying to justify their Satanic works.
Just pitiful
Brainwashed. is not a sincere walk in God. That is what you call, stupidity under mind control.
Agreed.
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4/12/2017 10:33:29 PM |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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4/13/2017 10:28:21 AM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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Iam, if tge Catholic Church pulled a demonic tussle with the Bible, why do you believe in the Bible at all?
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4/13/2017 10:35:56 AM |
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kb2222
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Without the interpretations of the Catholic Church, the entity that put the Bible together in the first place, the Bible is a hodgepodge of real and apparent contradictions that can be made to say anything anybody wants it to say, and can be made to support any ism under the sun.
And that's exactly what the Catholic church does.
Jesus didn't found the Catholic church and He didn't make popes infallible teachers which any sane person should be able to see for it was dozens of popes who taught that it was righteous and just to torture and burn to death at the stake untold thousands of their brethren calling them witches and heretics for a THOUSAND years for as you say because they wouldn't accept the "peace and love" of the Catholic church.
Jesus didn't instruct His followers to unquestionably accept any book later compiled by the RCC. Indeed, Jesus sent into the world the Holy Spirit of truth, the spirit of the son as His REPLACEMENT TEACHER WHICH YOU AND THOSE LIKE YOU REJECT when the voice that speaks within conflicts with church dogma about the book they compiled. And that is exactly why you so-called Christians to this day PRETEND not to know it is horrible inhuman wickedness to stone and burn your brethren to death at the stake if they don't agree with you.
Ludlow, you don't know as you claim that Jesus "sends thousands of people to Hell every day without batting an eye" Ludlow. You don't know or don't care whether actions are righteous or wicked as long as they are attributed to God/Jesus in the book the church compiled. For you and your corrupt church to still be teaching that it was righteous and just to stone and burn people to death at the stake for all those absurd reasons and that is what Jesus ordered man to do is nothing but sick inexcusable blasphemous satanic teaching and its utterly despicable that you and your historically murderous Catholic church continue to do so unashamedly.
You and the RCC do Satan's work of deceiving your brethren, Ludlow.
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4/13/2017 10:37:42 AM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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The Holy Spirit leads all who are listening into the Catholic Church.
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4/13/2017 10:44:48 AM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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Iam, if tge Catholic Church pulled a demonic tussle with the Bible, why do you believe in the Bible at all?
My grandfather (who was being groomed for the Catholic priesthood), wrote the many differences between the Catholic version of scripture and the KJV. He found many places where he knew, the KJV had been bastardized by the influence of the Catholics. We observed scripture and did so with an understanding "God will reveal the hidden "TRUTHS" one day".
It LOOKS as if that "day" has arrived knowing the original bible compared to the bastard version by the Catholic pagans.
I was raised in this, Lud. But I was raised with knowing there were many questions that "one day" would be revealed. It would appear that "one day" has finally arrived.
After knowing there was (foul play) involved, from my grandfather instruction concerning the Catholics. Led me to a better understanding of what was "important and not". But like in ALL THINGS my God is faithful, just, and provides those answers "WE SEEK" about.
And it would appear that this "NEW INFORMATION" about the evilness and corruption of the Catholic pagan church is GODs way of CLEANSING those people "who have been ROBBED" from the Catholics.
AND, this information is God separating Himself from DEMONIC FORCES (Catholic Church)!!
This no doubt means, God is close to returning and he is separating the "WHEAT" from the "TARES!!"
[Edited 4/13/2017 10:46:19 AM ]
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4/13/2017 10:54:20 AM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
Iam, if tge Catholic Church pulled a demonic tussle with the Bible, why do you believe in the Bible at all?
=================================================================================
The above is another ludlow non-sequitur. The bible is not the Cathlick church and if the early Christians hadn't put the bible together, someone would have, sooner or later, put together something like it.
This quote from Lud is a measure of how messed up he is:
"Jesus IS the Church, and the Church is Jesus.
Jesus=Church
Church=Jesus
Jesus=Church
Church=Jesus
Jesus=Church
Church=Jesus"
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4/13/2017 10:57:16 AM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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Iam, if even the Protestant King James version (which by the way affirms Jesus' virgin birth) is bastardized, why do you believe in the Bible? What translation do you recommend for English-speaking Christians?
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4/13/2017 10:57:56 AM |
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kb2222
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011
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The Holy Spirit leads all who are listening into the Catholic Church.
You and the RCC do Satan's work of deceiving your brethren, Ludlow.
Jesus didn't found the Catholic church and He didn't make popes infallible teachers which any sane person should be able to see for it was dozens of popes who taught that it was righteous and just to torture and burn to death at the stake untold thousands of their brethren calling them witches and heretics for a THOUSAND years for as you say because they wouldn't accept the "peace and love" of the Catholic church.
Jesus didn't instruct His followers to unquestionably accept any book later compiled by the RCC. Indeed, Jesus sent into the world the Holy Spirit of truth, the spirit of the son as His REPLACEMENT TEACHER WHICH YOU AND THOSE LIKE YOU REJECT when the voice that speaks within conflicts with church dogma about the book they compiled. And that is exactly why you so-called Christians to this day PRETEND not to know it is horrible inhuman wickedness to stone and burn your brethren to death at the stake if they don't agree with you.
Ludlow, you don't know as you claim that Jesus "sends thousands of people to Hell every day without batting an eye" Ludlow. You don't know or don't care whether actions are righteous or wicked as long as they are attributed to God/Jesus in the book the church compiled. For you and your corrupt church to still be teaching that it was righteous and just to stone and burn people to death at the stake for all those absurd reasons and that is what Jesus ordered man to do is nothing but sick inexcusable blasphemous satanic teaching and its utterly despicable that you and your historically murderous Catholic church continue to do so unashamedly.
You and the RCC do Satan's work of deceiving your brethren, Ludlow.
[Edited 4/13/2017 10:59:47 AM ]
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4/13/2017 11:08:02 AM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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There is not much choice for us to choose from, now is there LUD? And why? Thanks to your Demonic origins of a wanna be church, we, all have to read the BIBLE knowing your leaders BASTARDIZED IT!!
The real clue is simple, LUD!! What ties Christ with all other "virgin born" myth gods? Why change the "no birth story" of Christ, from "original scripture" to Christ with "virgin birth" (the same as all 1,000 other gods)?
Constantine WORSHIPPED Apollo!! The KING DEMON holding keys to the "BOTTOMLESS PIT," where SATAN will be bound for 1,000 years during New Jerusalem (remember: Satan was cast to earth but never bound yet-still unfulfilled prophecy)!!
Do you think this KING DEMON, whom in Greek Myth, is born of a virgin mother. DID NOT influence, Constantine?
WHY did Constantine make Yahshua EQUAL to the KING DEMON and other 1,000 mythical gods?
Do YOU want to serve a GOD "separate" or the same as other gods, LUD?
Because it appears you are in love with the DECEIVER, not the ONE, who died for YOU!!
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4/13/2017 11:08:38 AM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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Well guys and gals, if we are going to reject the virgin birth of Christ we have a real problem with the Bible. Practically every Bible, ancient or modern, Catholic or Protestant, English, Latin, Greek, or any other language, describes the annunciation of Gabriel to Mary and the virgin birth of Christ in great detail. If we reject the birgin birth of Christ we might as well throw all our Bibles in the garbage. If the Bible gets this extremely important thing wrong it most probably gets a lot of things wrong, and it becomes completely useless.
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4/13/2017 11:22:59 AM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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Tell me this, LUD.
Why did the Catholics bastardized the "original bible" and then, turn around and make another bible version only for Catholics?
Not only did they "bastardized the TRUTH about God with His Original Scripture, then they made a COMPLETE FABRICATION, of the entire Holy Bible with the Catholic version of DEMONINC LIES!!
IF there ever was an example of BLASPHEMY ever committed documented in history. It definitely involved the Catholic Pagan Church of Demons and Liars!!
Go pray to another statue instead of GOD!!
paganism at its very finest, in a assembly called the "temple of God." Talk about BLASPHEMY!!
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4/13/2017 12:12:44 PM |
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freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011
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I have a couple of legitimate questions.
If Jesus was born of a human virgin who was born with the stain of sin upon her, even with God being Jesus' biological father, then Jesus was born as a human with the stain of sin upon him, also?
So, if Jesus was born with the stain of sin upon him (and we know that he did as evidenced by his baptism by John and the Holy Spirit descending upon him) [All we born again Christians know the Holy Spirit does not enter into our human temple of God until we have confessed our sins and been cleansed by the grace of God, so it could have been no different for Jesus] how could he have been born "sinless"?
Jesus couldn't have been born sinless as a human and have been able to experience life as an earthly human soul so that people would accept him and follow his teachings. Jesus had to have been born in sin, also?
Is that why Mary was an unmarried female who gave birth to a bastard child?
Is this a story of acceptance of children born out-of-wedlock and is following the concept of four previous biblical women who had birthed children out-of-wedlock?
Romans 5:12 says sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve.
Interestingly, Jewish tradition seems to follow the matrilineal descent.
I'll stick with Romans 5.
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4/13/2017 12:16:53 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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Ludlow says:
"Well guys and gals, if we are going to reject the virgin birth of Christ we have a real problem with the Bible. Practically every Bible, ancient or modern, Catholic or Protestant, English, Latin, Greek, or any other language, describes the annunciation of Gabriel to Mary and the virgin birth of Christ in great detail. If we reject the birgin birth of Christ we might as well throw all our Bibles in the garbage. If the Bible gets this extremely important thing wrong it most probably gets a lot of things wrong, and it becomes completely useless."
==============================================================================
You make some good points, Lud, about the bible possibly being useless.
Here's what really happened at the annunciation:
GABRIEL’S ANNOUNCEMENT TO MARY
122:3.1 One evening about sundown, before Joseph had returned home, Gabriel appeared to Mary by the side of a low stone table and, after she had recovered her composure, said: “I come at the bidding of one who is my Master and whom you shall love and nurture. To you, Mary, I bring glad tidings when I announce that the conception within you is ordained by heaven, and that in due time you will become the mother of a son; you shall call him Joshua, and he shall inaugurate the kingdom of heaven on earth and among men. Speak not of this matter save to Joseph and to Elizabeth, your kinswoman, to whom I have also appeared, and who shall presently also bear a son, whose name shall be John, and who will prepare the way for the message of deliverance which your son shall proclaim to men with great power and deep conviction. And doubt not my word, Mary, for this home has been chosen as the mortal habitat of the child of destiny. My benediction rests upon you, the power of the Most Highs will strengthen you, and the Lord of all the earth shall overshadow you.”
122:3.2 Mary pondered this visitation secretly in her heart for many weeks until of a certainty she knew she was with child, before she dared to disclose these unusual events to her husband. When Joseph heard all about this, although he had great confidence in Mary, he was much troubled and could not sleep for many nights. At first Joseph had doubts about the Gabriel visitation. Then when he became well-nigh persuaded that Mary had really heard the voice and beheld the form of the divine messenger, he was torn in mind as he pondered how such things could be. How could the offspring of human beings be a child of divine destiny? Never could Joseph reconcile these conflicting ideas until, after several weeks of thought, both he and Mary reached the conclusion that they had been chosen to become the parents of the Messiah, though it had hardly been the Jewish concept that the expected deliverer was to be of divine nature. Upon arriving at this momentous conclusion, Mary hastened to depart for a visit with Elizabeth.
122:3.3 Upon her return, Mary went to visit her parents, Joachim and Hannah. Her two brothers and two sisters, as well as her parents, were always very skeptical about the divine mission of Jesus, though, of course, at this time they knew nothing of the Gabriel visitation. But Mary did confide to her sister Salome that she thought her son was destined to become a great teacher.
122:3.4 Gabriel’s announcement to Mary was made the day following the conception of Jesus and was the only event of supernatural occurrence connected with her entire experience of carrying and bearing the child of promise. -The Urantia Book
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4/13/2017 12:45:26 PM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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Romans 5:12 says sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve.
Interestingly, Jewish tradition seems to follow the matrilineal descent.
I'll stick with Romans 5.
Eve did come from Adam. Adam is the first of our kind.
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4/13/2017 1:44:26 PM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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Tell me this, LUD.
Why did the Catholics bastardized the "original bible" and then, turn around and make another bible version only for Catholics?
Not only did they "bastardized the TRUTH about God with His Original Scripture, then they made a COMPLETE FABRICATION, of the entire Holy Bible with the Catholic version of DEMONINC LIES!!
IF there ever was an example of BLASPHEMY ever committed documented in history. It definitely involved the Catholic Pagan Church of Demons and Liars!!
Go pray to another statue instead of GOD!!
paganism at its very finest, in a assembly called the "temple of God." Talk about BLASPHEMY!!
The Catholic Church did not bastardize the Bible. In fact it was the Catholic Church that put the Bible together in the first place, at the Council of Hippo in the year 393. The Catholic Church never put out any translation for Catholics only. All translations the Catholic Church issued have always been available to the general public.
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4/13/2017 2:03:12 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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Romans 5:12 says sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve.
Interestingly, Jewish tradition seems to follow the matrilineal descent.
I'll stick with Romans 5.
Eve did come from Adam. Adam is the first of our kind.
ADAM AND EVE arrived on [Earth], from the year A.D. 1934, 37,848 years ago. It was in midseason when the Garden was in the height of bloom that they arrived. At high noon and unannounced, the two seraphic transports, accompanied by the Jerusem personnel intrusted with the transportation of the biologic uplifters to [Earth], settled slowly to the surface of the revolving planet in the vicinity of the temple of the Universal Father. All the work of rematerializing the bodies of Adam and Eve was carried on within the precincts of this newly created shrine. And from the time of their arrival ten days passed before they were re-created in dual human form for presentation as the world’s new rulers. They regained consciousness simultaneously. The Material Sons and Daughters always serve together. It is the essence of their service at all times and in all places never to be separated. -The Urantia Book
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4/13/2017 2:12:59 PM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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The Catholic Church did not bastardize the Bible. In fact it was the Catholic Church that put the Bible together in the first place, at the Council of Hippo in the year 393. The Catholic Church never put out any translation for Catholics only. All translations the Catholic Church issued have always been available to the general public.
PSALMS 23"
1
(A Psalm of David.) The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
DOES NOT READ THIS WAY IN THE CATHOLIC VERSION:
1
A psalm of David.
I
The LORD is my shepherd;*
there is nothing I lack.
2
In green pastures he makes me lie down;
to still waters he leads me;
3
he restores my soul.
He guides me along right paths*
for the sake of his name.
4
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil, for you are with me;
your rod and your staff comfort me.
II
5
*You set a table before me
in front of my enemies;*
You anoint my head with oil;*d
my cup overflows.
6
Indeed, goodness and mercy* will pursue me
all the days of my life;
I will dwell in the house of the LORD
for endless days.
What do you mean?
THERE "is not" a Catholic Version DIFFERENT from the ORIGINAL HOLY BIBLE in which they "also" BASTARDIZED that.
Dude, do you even know who your church is?
CLEARLY, you are BLIND and CLUELESS!!
[Edited 4/13/2017 2:14:10 PM ]
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4/13/2017 2:19:25 PM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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Did you quote the King James and Douay Rheims translations? News flash---the Douay Rheims translation came out first. And it wasn't for Catholics only, anyone could have read it, except you had to go to France to read it, because the Protestant king of England made Douay Rheims Bibles illegal in England and Ireland.
And what essential differences do you find in these two translations?
[Edited 4/13/2017 2:21:28 PM ]
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4/13/2017 3:30:43 PM |
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iam_resurrected
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014
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Did you quote the King James and Douay Rheims translations? News flash---the Douay Rheims translation came out first. And it wasn't for Catholics only, anyone could have read it, except you had to go to France to read it, because the Protestant king of England made Douay Rheims Bibles illegal in England and Ireland.
And what essential differences do you find in these two translations?
You just admitted the differences were both done by the same church system.
You also admitted that both versions you mention DIFFER from the original manuscript of the Gospels.
So you admitted to understanding forgery has taken place within house of the Catholic regime.
Either by "first hand participation" or by second hand changing the altered version of the original into another completely version.
So the original was bastardized twice in a row.
Now Lud,
Knowing this much. How do you still find the Catholic church to be FACT?
You provided 2 versions that are BOTH bastardized from the "Original Bible!!"
How does a Second Hand Bastardized Bible hold more truth that the First Bastardized version or better yet, the Original Bible?
Christ, was NOT BORN from a VIRGIN. Your (church) LIED to YOU!!
GET OVER IT!!
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4/13/2017 5:45:22 PM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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"Oh, the original manuscripts in Greek say..."
Whenever we hear this kind of talk, beware, because we do not have ANY original biblical manuscripts. All we have are copies of copies, including the oldest ones. This is why over-reliance on scripture leads to all kinds of errors---this is why we need the teaching authority of our holy mother the Catholic Church, the "pillar and ground of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15).
The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus was born of a virgin, just like Isaiah, Matthew, and Luke say.
Oh, how many errors we commit when we stray from Catholic truth.
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4/13/2017 6:05:55 PM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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Sometimes the ancient manuscripts disagree with each other. Some will be missing some parables that others retain. St. Jerome combed over all existing manuscripts circa 400 a.d., including manuscripts we no longer have, and came up with the best translation humanly possible---the Latin Vulgate. Until the last fifty years Holy Mother the Catholic required that all translations approved by the Church, or read at Mass, had to be translated directly from the Latin Vulgate.
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4/13/2017 7:26:28 PM |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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The best translation was the original translation which came from closer to the root source. Hebrew.
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