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5/23/2017 3:09:11 PM |
Who/what is God`s word? | Page 2 |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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We really should have a good discussion about authority, what it is, how some things or people get it, and why we give it or don't give it. For instance, why does Ludlow give authority to his church and the pope and we do not?
"Believing on Jesus includes believing in the Church He founded and the Pope He appointed." -Ludlow
"Mary is queen of Heaven and sovereign mistress of the angels for one reason and one reason only: God appointed her to that office." -Ludlow
"Jesus called His diciples to believe in the Catholic Church. The Church compiled the Bible in the year 393 a.d. and gurantees its inspired character. So believing in the Bible is part of believing in the Church. A faith chain, so to speak: first we believe in God, then in His Son Jesus Christ, then in the Church Jesus founded, then in the Bible that Church compiled." -Ludlow
"Jesus organized the Catholic Church. He appointed Peter to be the first pope and the other apostles the first bishops. He gave the Church its chief worship service, the Mass." -Ludlow
So why don't any of us other than Ludlow believe these things, this open and shut case as presented by Ludlow?
These things are the root cause of "authority," our belief in them. When we choose to believe a particular story, like say Jonah and the Whale, we should ask say, "But why do I believe that?"
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5/23/2017 3:21:28 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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The bible, or The Urantia Book, or the Koran, etc., only have the authority that people give them, that believers give them. They do not have authority in and of themselves.
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5/23/2017 3:27:06 PM |
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kb2222
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011
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FJO writes:
Authority is not innate in any person or thing on earth, in my opinion. The era of kings is almost over. Authority has to be given. The bible cannot be an authority for me just because you say, and others shout over and over that it's "God's Word." I should give in to such shoutings and insistence and say, "OK, ok, since you have shouted that over and over and over, I guess I'll give in and give it authority too"? It's a sell job. On the other hand, no Urantia believer that I know of has ever been "sold" or convinced (the way preachers do) of the truth of The Urantia Book unless they read it for themselves and decided for themselves that it is what IT says it is. It's a whole different dynamic for coming to belief and giving it authority.
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5/23/2017 4:49:32 PM |
Who/what is God`s word? | Page 2 |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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FJO is right for once. Authority does have to be given. All authority ultimately comes from God.
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5/23/2017 6:28:06 PM |
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looptex1
Chatsworth, GA
49, joined Jun. 2008
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FJO is right for once. Authority does have to be given. All authority ultimately comes from God.
crap fjo, lud agrees with you...and we all know how much he understands. ..lol
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5/23/2017 8:24:10 PM |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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Wow! I said that ages ago!
Are you telling me Lud & FJO agree with me on something?
I'd better archive this.
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5/23/2017 8:40:40 PM |
Who/what is God`s word? | Page 2 |
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isna_la_wica
Brantford, ON
63, joined Mar. 2012
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The bible, or The Urantia Book, or the Koran, etc., only have the authority that people give them, that believers give them. They do not have authority in and of themselves.
Well, I have to go back to my first post on this
There are a couple of different words used that are translated as "word" in English.
You have "Logos":
"? 3056. logos ?
Strong's Concordance
logos: a word (as embodying an idea), a statement, a speech
Original Word: ?????, ??, ?
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: logos
Phonetic Spelling: (log'-os)
Short Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy
Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy."
As you can see it is not confined to just written words.
And then there is Rhema :
4487. rhéma ?
Strong's Concordance
rhéma: a word, by impl. a matter
Original Word: ??µa, at??, t?
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: rhéma
Phonetic Spelling: (hray'-mah)
Short Definition: a thing spoken
Definition: a thing spoken, (a) a word or saying of any kind, as command, report, promise, (b) a thing, matter, business.
John 1:1
Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
In the case of John 1:1, the word used was Logos. And this is what Mathew Henry said about it:
Commentary
Matthew Henry Commentary
1:1-5 The plainest reason why the Son of God is called the Word, seems to be, that as our words explain our minds to others, so was the Son of God sent in order to reveal his Father's mind to the world. What the evangelist says of Christ proves that he is God. He asserts, His existence in the beginning; His coexistence with the Father. The Word was with God. All things were made by him, and not as an instrument. Without him was not any thing made that was made, from the highest angel to the meanest worm.
So "word" or "Logos" means when you look at Strongs, the: embodying of an idea, or in this case, Jesus is the sum of Gods message to man.
I read where this verse sums up the "word".
Colossians 1:19 Young's Literal Translation
because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,
So, how many ways can he be manifested as the "word", or rather Logos?
-You have the written word, which can be the "Logos" with Prayer:
1 Timothy 4:5 ?
Verse
New International Version
because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
And this is supported by Jesus him self :
? John 5:39 ?
New International Version
You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
-then you have an example of when "Rhena" is used:
? Matthew 4:4 ?
New International Version
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
And God speaks to us in many ways:
-Through his Creation:
Psalm 19:1 ?
New International Version
For the director of music. A psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
- through the Holy Spirit :
? John 16:13 ?
New International Version
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
- through scripture :
Hebrews 4:12 ?
New International Version
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
- through Jesus him self
? John 14:9 ?
New International Version
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
I got much of this from here :How can Jesus and the Bible both be the Word of God? - Got Questions?
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Bible-Word-God.html
So what and who is the word of God?
Any way that God speaks to us, as "Logos logos: a word (as embodying an idea)".
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5/24/2017 2:56:15 AM |
Who/what is God`s word? | Page 2 |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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crap fjo, lud agrees with you...and we all know how much he understands. ..lol
Uh, I don't think Lud does agree with me. Lud changed the subject for his own purposes. He said, "All authority ultimately comes from God."
I never said that. Lud has an agenda.
When Lud says, "All authority ultimately comes from God," he's going some where with that. And you know where: "God gave all authority to Peter who led the Catholic church that Jesus founded, and the infallible pope, and the Hail Mary full of graces and the drinking of blood and the eating of flesh and the confession and the infink baptisms and Purgatory and so on, and on, and on." Lud is talking about the down-giving of authority from God to his church sect, and the subject here is really the up-giving of authority, how WE give things and people authority. You have given the bible authority, some version or another. I have given The Urantia Book authority. A Muslim or a Hindu or a Buddhist would not say that your book or mine has any authority. They have not given them that.
I think it's a fascinating subject, the authority WE give things and people.
Question: What does the Christianity YOU have, have in common with the so-called Christianity that Ludlow has? What does your Christianity have in common with Catholicism?
If the truth were known, I'd say The Urantia Book's teachings are probably closer to your beliefs than the Catholic church's teachings. You probably don't think about it much because they have been around for so long masquerading as Christians, truly wolves in sheep's clothing.
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5/24/2017 3:00:08 AM |
Who/what is God`s word? | Page 2 |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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*
Lud:
"Yes, I speak for God."
Ludlow actually said that.
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5/24/2017 9:20:38 AM |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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Good morning bigd9832. What did you say, dear?
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5/24/2017 9:37:06 AM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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Wow! I said that ages ago!
Are you telling me Lud & FJO agree with me on something?
I'd better archive this.
It is truly an historic moment. (Is there supposed to be a solar eclipse today?)
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5/24/2017 9:42:16 AM |
Who/what is God`s word? | Page 2 |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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Is someone getting crucified?
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5/25/2017 11:35:03 AM |
Who/what is God`s word? | Page 2 |
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freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011
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FJO writes:
Authority is not innate in any person or thing on earth, in my opinion. The era of kings is almost over. Authority has to be given. The bible cannot be an authority for me just because you say, and others shout over and over that it's "God's Word." I should give in to such shoutings and insistence and say, "OK, ok, since you have shouted that over and over and over, I guess I'll give in and give it authority too"? It's a sell job. On the other hand, no Urantia believer that I know of has ever been "sold" or convinced (the way preachers do) of the truth of The Urantia Book unless they read it for themselves and decided for themselves that it is what IT says it is. It's a whole different dynamic for coming to belief and giving it authority.
When I read it, it said it is the book of comedy and damnation. So I agree with KB.
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5/25/2017 11:40:06 AM |
Who/what is God`s word? | Page 2 |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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The Catholic Church, with the authority Jesus granted it at Matthew 16:19, solemnly teaches that the 73 books the Council of Hippo put into the Bible are all inspired by God, and do carry authority from God.
All authority does come from God. Unless one's authority directly or indirectly comes from God it is no authority at all.
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5/25/2017 12:49:18 PM |
Who/what is God`s word? | Page 2 |
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kb2222
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011
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Matthew 16:19 pertains to Peter. It gives no authority to the then non-existent Catholic church. A church whose early and subsequent leaders went on for more than a thousand years horribly torturing and burning their brethren to death at the stake calling them witches and heretics. You are a deceiver and do the work of Satan with your false self-serving teachings and you do this deliberately and determinedly as if you could care less about the truth, Ludlow. You are truly a unashamed deceiver, Ludlow, and I believe you shall have your just reward.
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5/26/2017 9:55:49 AM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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Do you think the Catholic Church was tough on witches and heretics? Wait'll you see Jesus in action on Judgment Day.
[Edited 5/26/2017 9:56:09 AM ]
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5/26/2017 10:16:47 AM |
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kb2222
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011
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What a SICK, SICK, SICK, SICK dismissal of the truth of my post, Ludlow. You are such a perverted corrupt man to excuse/dismiss the horrible atrocities carried out by the Catholic Church upon humanity for over a thousand years by asserting Jesus will do much worse.
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5/26/2017 10:56:42 AM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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How long does it take to burn a heretic at the stake until the heretic dies? An hour, two hours maybe? How long does Jesus burn unrepentant heretics in Hell? For all eternity.
Sonething to think about.
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5/26/2017 11:11:22 AM |
Who/what is God`s word? | Page 2 |
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kb2222
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011
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What a SICK, SICK, SICK, SICK dismissal of the truth of my post, Ludlow. You are such a perverted corrupt man to excuse/dismiss the horrible atrocities carried out by the Catholic Church upon humanity for over a thousand years by asserting Jesus will do much worse.
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5/26/2017 11:17:52 AM |
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ludlowlowell
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008
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What a SICK, SICK, SICK, SICK dismissal of the truth of my post, Ludlow. You are such a perverted corrupt man to excuse/dismiss the horrible atrocities carried out by the Catholic Church upon humanity for over a thousand years by asserting Jesus will do much worse.
But Jesus DOES do much worse.
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5/26/2017 11:26:16 AM |
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kb2222
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011
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But Jesus DOES do much worse.
That's your SICK perverted and BLASPHEMOUS belief and if that's what you want to go to the grave and to judgment believing and teaching no one is going to stop you, Ludlow.
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5/26/2017 2:05:54 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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*
Ludlow, regarding burning people at the stake as his sect used to do, says:
"But Jesus DOES do much worse."
Ludlow is mouth-piecing for Satan.
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5/27/2017 3:11:58 PM |
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followjesusonly
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
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*
Ludlow, regarding burning people at the stake as his sect used to do, says:
"But Jesus DOES do much worse."
This is pure evil. It's pure blasphemy against God and Jesus. It's a sign you do not know God and you do not love Him.
I'm sure this is not Catholic doctrine. This is your own sickness speaking. If there is any hope left for you, you should go to a priest and tell him your theories about how Jesus "does do much worse" things that torturing and burning people at the stake as your sect has done. Tell a priest your theories.
Psa_145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
I am sure a priest would rebuke you.
[Edited 5/27/2017 3:13:05 PM ]
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5/30/2017 8:38:02 AM |
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cupocheer
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010
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