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11/28/2016 9:11:51 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

fyathyrio
Over 2,000 Posts (2,649)
Savannah, GA
49, joined Nov. 2009


All I want is decent conversation with a Christian who is willing to discuss their answer to this question.

If you can believe in an eternal God that created the universe then why not just believe in an eternal universe understood as God?




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11/29/2016 10:21:54 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,029)
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from fyathyrio:
All I want is decent conversation with a Christian who is willing to discuss their answer to this question.

If you can believe in an eternal God that created the universe then why not just believe in an eternal universe understood as God?

Only a "personality" can place "value" on words/concepts/meanings. The physical universe is wholly unconcerned with love, truth, goodness and righteousness.



[Edited 11/29/2016 10:22:51 AM ]

11/29/2016 12:13:47 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Quote from fyathyrio:
All I want is decent conversation with a Christian who is willing to discuss their answer to this question.

If you can believe in an eternal God that created the universe then why not just believe in an eternal universe understood as God?


Because the universe is orderly. Therefore, it must have been designed by Someone.

11/29/2016 12:37:54 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

isna_la_wica
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,523)
Brantford, ON
63, joined Mar. 2012


Quote from fyathyrio:
All I want is decent conversation with a Christian who is willing to discuss their answer to this question.

If you can believe in an eternal God that created the universe then why not just believe in an eternal universe understood as God?


I do in a way actually.

What is "spiritual", what are the 'physics " of spirit and God?

Its something I contemplate about all the time.

And before the magic fans who think God is a white bearded man who hides in the clouds jumps me, I `ll throw in this verse:


John 4:24 Young's Literal Translation
God is a Spirit, and those worshipping Him, in spirit and truth it doth behove to worship.'

The way I envision him and what he is, is like light that has mass. And creation it self was the stretching out and expansion of that "light".

Cool question.

11/29/2016 6:51:39 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (263,629)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Because the universe is orderly. Therefore, it must have been designed by a devine hand.


Fixed it for you.

11/29/2016 7:36:32 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Everything that is, both matter and energy, are some form of vibration in their essence.
Modern String Theory states this about the fundamental building blocks of atoms.There are infinite expressions of those vibrations, both pure and amalgamated.
The simplest forms of vibration available to our perception are Light and Sound. The universal references by spiritually advanced teachers such as Jesus, Mohammed, and others to God as "Light" is not accidental. There is light within us if we look.
This light is the creation energy and also the way back to it's source.
So, yes our universe is the expression of God into physical form in essence. We are luminous consciousness, an expression of creation made of light and an imitation of our creator in our conscious awareness.

11/29/2016 8:01:52 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (263,629)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


That almost makes complete sense, A ---- it's akin to religion being a substitute for real understanding of the universe.



[Edited 11/29/2016 8:02:07 PM ]

11/29/2016 9:48:11 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

fyathyrio
Over 2,000 Posts (2,649)
Savannah, GA
49, joined Nov. 2009


Quote from asanb:
Everything that is, both matter and energy, are some form of vibration in their essence.
Modern String Theory states this about the fundamental building blocks of atoms.There are infinite expressions of those vibrations, both pure and amalgamated.
The simplest forms of vibration available to our perception are Light and Sound. The universal references by spiritually advanced teachers such as Jesus, Mohammed, and others to God as "Light" is not accidental. There is light within us if we look.
This light is the creation energy and also the way back to it's source.
So, yes our universe is the expression of God into physical form in essence. We are luminous consciousness, an expression of creation made of light and an imitation of our creator in our conscious awareness.


You have a way with words. Beautiful!

11/29/2016 9:53:35 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


It's all energy and it's all relative

11/30/2016 2:54:23 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

w6o6l6f_1
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (16,733)
Richmond, VA
39, joined May. 2014


99% of refugees in sanctuary cities are Muslim.

Christians in the Middle East are told to convert or die.

11/30/2016 5:52:56 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,632)
Saint Petersburg, FL
69, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from w6o6l6f_1:
99% of refugees in sanctuary cities are Muslim.

Christians in the Middle East are told to convert or die.


What the heck!

Are you saying that we should insist that muslims convert to christianity or die?

or

Are you saying that the middle east should treat christians as we treat muslims?

Peace

11/30/2016 9:11:12 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

fyathyrio
Over 2,000 Posts (2,649)
Savannah, GA
49, joined Nov. 2009


Quote from w6o6l6f_1:
99% of refugees in sanctuary cities are Muslim.

Christians in the Middle East are told to convert or die.


Well this is precisely my point. Islam and Christianity both assert that they are the true religion. I think most religions feel they are the "true" religion. As Sam Sarris puts it, they can't all be true so all believers should expect to go to hell just based on the probability that you have chosen the wrong religion. Do you really think that this is the way its supposed to be?

When we understand God as simply what is, then there is no argument no disagreement no converting to another's belief.

11/30/2016 9:17:59 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

isna_la_wica
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,523)
Brantford, ON
63, joined Mar. 2012


Quote from asanb:
Everything that is, both matter and energy, are some form of vibration in their essence.
Modern String Theory states this about the fundamental building blocks of atoms.There are infinite expressions of those vibrations, both pure and amalgamated.
The simplest forms of vibration available to our perception are Light and Sound. The universal references by spiritually advanced teachers such as Jesus, Mohammed, and others to God as "Light" is not accidental. There is light within us if we look.
This light is the creation energy and also the way back to it's source.
So, yes our universe is the expression of God into physical form in essence. We are luminous consciousness, an expression of creation made of light and an imitation of our creator in our conscious awareness.


I like that, cool thoughts.

11/30/2016 11:37:05 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,029)
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from fyathyrio:
All I want is decent conversation with a Christian who is willing to discuss their answer to this question.

If you can believe in an eternal God that created the universe then why not just believe in an eternal universe understood as God?

Quote from kb2222:
Only a "personality" can place "value" on words/concepts/meanings. The physical universe is wholly unconcerned with love, truth, goodness and righteousness.


11/30/2016 1:54:04 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (12,292)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
online now!


*
3:6.3 All religious philosophy, sooner or later, arrives at the concept of unified universe rule, of one God. Universe causes cannot be lower than universe effects. The source of the streams of universe life and of the cosmic mind must be above the levels of their manifestation. The human mind cannot be consistently explained in terms of the lower orders of existence. Man’s mind can be truly comprehended only by recognizing the reality of higher orders of thought and purposive will. Man as a moral being is inexplicable unless the reality of the Universal Father is acknowledged.

3:6.4 The mechanistic philosopher professes to reject the idea of a universal and sovereign will, the very sovereign will whose activity in the elaboration of universe laws he so deeply reverences. What unintended homage the mechanist pays the law-Creator when he conceives such laws to be self-acting and self-explanatory! -The Urantia Book

11/30/2016 9:21:19 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from cupocheer:
That almost makes complete sense, A ---- it's akin to religion being a substitute for real understanding of the universe.

Religion is a man made interpretation of the experiences and original teachings given to the original disciples of all of the great god connected masters of the past. these intellectual concepts and dogmas are what survives the passing of a great soul, because a living disciple who wishes ascension beyond this plane must come to the feet of a living master. Discipleship is the gift of the living to the lving. Those disciples know the truth of the spiritual way back home. After that, thescholar and the inevitable ossification of truth known as a priest come to interpret the shards of truth left in the wake of such masters in ways that twist to their agenda.and obscure the truth.
Finding God is simple: look inside yourselves for the light, and if you can't find it by yourself, look to a living teacher to help you. God doesn't come from a book, or a past master who has left the body. Religion is about the past . Spirituality is about the living now.

11/30/2016 9:37:24 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from isna_la_wica:
I like that, cool thoughts.

We and everything we know are a song that is being sung. If we can stop our outward intellectual chatter and listen for a change , it is a song that draws the listener to the singer.

12/1/2016 8:45:58 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Cultivating inner silence is important, I agree.

12/2/2016 4:37:43 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

w6o6l6f_1
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (16,733)
Richmond, VA
39, joined May. 2014


Quote from sail_dancer:
What the heck!

Are you saying that we should insist that muslims convert to christianity or die?

or

Are you saying that the middle east should treat christians as we treat muslims?

Peace

You must be confused.

Saying that Muslims treat Christians like shit in their country.

99% of refugees in U.S. sanctuary cites are Muslim .
Obama has not made an effort to invite Christian refugees.

F.Y.I., I am not a Christian but think this one way street is f**ked up.

12/11/2016 5:06:27 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
funwithmusic
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (18,702)
Chapel Hill, NC
62, joined Feb. 2007


Quote from fyathyrio:
All I want is decent conversation with a Christian who is willing to discuss their answer to this question.

If you can believe in an eternal God that created the universe then why not just believe in an eternal universe understood as God?


That is PANTHEISM..and its forbidden by God to do so..

The universe is a creation..like a tree..a river..
Are trees and rivers god?


God is a person..He has feelings..He feels love for us...He feels anger when mankind does evil.

Worship what you will

Im sticking to the teachings of the BIBLE...CHRISTIANITY..the only true religion on the planet..

Christianity has brought peace and prosperity through the blessings of God to all nations that follow him..

HISTORY PROVES THIS TO BE TRUE


The Canaanite-Edomites follow us around all throughout history..THE ROB US..THEY GENOCIDE US..but they will NEVER GET RID OF US..


They know CHRISTIAN NATIONS ARE BLESSED..so they infiltrate our governments..our churches..and try to corrupt them....and try to rob us of our blessings by making marginal Christians loose their blessings due to their own ignorance about the scriptures...

And these EDOMITES also rob us of our riches ..THEY KNOW THAT GODS CHOSEN PEOPLEM THE ELECT, CHRISTIANS.. ARE BLESSED..so to them..we are like light to the moth...pollen to the honey bee

WHERE EVER WE ARE..THEY WILL COME..AND TRY TO DESTROY US..TO GENOCIDE US...they are an evil people.

THEY ARE IN YOUR GOV NOW.. but about to be expelled Thank God....

WE ARE AT WAR

AND YOU HAVE NO CLUE ..

12/14/2016 7:48:08 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from funwithmusic:
That is PANTHEISM..and its forbidden by God to do so..

The universe is a creation..like a tree..a river..
Are trees and rivers god?


God is a person..He has feelings..He feels love for us...He feels anger when mankind does evil.

Worship what you will

Im sticking to the teachings of the BIBLE...CHRISTIANITY..the only true religion on the planet..

Christianity has brought peace and prosperity through the blessings of God to all nations that follow him..

HISTORY PROVES THIS TO BE TRUE


The Canaanite-Edomites follow us around all throughout history..THE ROB US..THEY GENOCIDE US..but they will NEVER GET RID OF US..


They know CHRISTIAN NATIONS ARE BLESSED..so they infiltrate our governments..our churches..and try to corrupt them....and try to rob us of our blessings by making marginal Christians loose their blessings due to their own ignorance about the scriptures...

And these EDOMITES also rob us of our riches ..THEY KNOW THAT GODS CHOSEN PEOPLEM THE ELECT, CHRISTIANS.. ARE BLESSED..so to them..we are like light to the moth...pollen to the honey bee

WHERE EVER WE ARE..THEY WILL COME..AND TRY TO DESTROY US..TO GENOCIDE US...they are an evil people.

THEY ARE IN YOUR GOV NOW.. but about to be expelled Thank God....

WE ARE AT WAR

AND YOU HAVE NO CLUE ..


Those who separate human beings into categories to be hated based upon race, religion, or nationality demonstrate the fact that they have failed to understand the teachings of Jesus or any other great soul of the past.

12/14/2016 8:19:43 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

fyathyrio
Over 2,000 Posts (2,649)
Savannah, GA
49, joined Nov. 2009


Quote from funwithmusic:
That is PANTHEISM..and its forbidden by God to do so..

The universe is a creation..like a tree..a river..
Are trees and rivers god?


God is a person..He has feelings..He feels love for us...He feels anger when mankind does evil.

Worship what you will

Im sticking to the teachings of the BIBLE...CHRISTIANITY..the only true religion on the planet..

Christianity has brought peace and prosperity through the blessings of God to all nations that follow him..

HISTORY PROVES THIS TO BE TRUE


The Canaanite-Edomites follow us around all throughout history..THE ROB US..THEY GENOCIDE US..but they will NEVER GET RID OF US..


They know CHRISTIAN NATIONS ARE BLESSED..so they infiltrate our governments..our churches..and try to corrupt them....and try to rob us of our blessings by making marginal Christians loose their blessings due to their own ignorance about the scriptures...

And these EDOMITES also rob us of our riches ..THEY KNOW THAT GODS CHOSEN PEOPLEM THE ELECT, CHRISTIANS.. ARE BLESSED..so to them..we are like light to the moth...pollen to the honey bee

WHERE EVER WE ARE..THEY WILL COME..AND TRY TO DESTROY US..TO GENOCIDE US...they are an evil people.

THEY ARE IN YOUR GOV NOW.. but about to be expelled Thank God....

WE ARE AT WAR

AND YOU HAVE NO CLUE ..




it just seems that it makes more sense to assume an eternal universe known as God than to imagine an invisible God that created it.

12/14/2016 8:26:49 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (263,629)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


OP, could you answer your lead OP question before I proceed, please?

12/14/2016 8:34:45 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

fyathyrio
Over 2,000 Posts (2,649)
Savannah, GA
49, joined Nov. 2009


Quote from cupocheer:
OP, could you answer your lead OP question before I proceed, please?


answer my own question?


not sure what you mean

12/14/2016 10:04:07 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (263,629)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


Pass

12/14/2016 10:04:18 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (263,629)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010




12/17/2016 10:03:06 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

fyathyrio
Over 2,000 Posts (2,649)
Savannah, GA
49, joined Nov. 2009


call it what you want..God, source, divine, universe....It Is!

"Man is a most insane species. He worships an invisible God while destroying a visible nature not knowing that this nature is the invisible God he worships."

I will find the name of who said that to give credit.

As far as God being a person/personality.....it seems with Christians they are not aware or simply don't care about the contradictions that come with God being understood as a person.

in as much as God is in each and every one of its fair to say God is all people, but to say God is a person.....nah
doesn't make sense

12/17/2016 5:22:49 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


People need to put God in a box so that they reduce what is beyond understanding into something that can be can conceptualized and understood. What is so silly is that God has already simplified that problem by sending himself to us many times and in many ways as another human being. We just don't notice or seek him out because he doesn't promulgate the right book, or he's the wrong race, or some other label that does not suit us.

God come into expression as the universe, but is manifest more in consciousness and is most sublime as a living saint.

12/18/2016 10:33:51 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

iam_resurrected
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,779)
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014


Quote from fyathyrio:
All I want is decent conversation with a Christian who is willing to discuss their answer to this question.

If you can believe in an eternal God that created the universe then why not just believe in an eternal universe understood as God?







that would make having a deity impersonable then.

considering the Bible (like no other manuscript) describes the deity as one with all characteristics that his ""creation"" had...(bible states in old testament God repented for His actions towards man)...this leads to the new testament where Christ comes and dwells with his "creation" and makes himself personable to humanity before dying for them.


why have a God if that God cannot be personable or can relate to you?

if we looked at God as a whole, then how is it possible to conclude you can have a personal walk with Him?

because God is personable would be why...therefore, we do not view him as the universe because ((if he really died on the ""cross"" for us))...that is beyond universal...that now becomes personable because he died for everyone (which can be deducted or ""reasoned"" he died for each one of us individually)...either way, that is personable so it would require seeing your deity as the same...not as the entire whole (which that also applies but not on a faith/personal walk with God).



[Edited 12/18/2016 10:35:19 AM ]

12/18/2016 11:56:40 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,029)
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from fyathyrio:
it just seems that it makes more sense to assume an eternal universe known as God than to imagine an invisible God that created it.

Only a "personality" can place "value" on words/concepts/meanings. The physical universe is wholly unconcerned with love, truth, goodness and righteousness.


I said this before and you didn't comment. Perhaps you will now?

12/18/2016 3:03:50 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,632)
Saint Petersburg, FL
69, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from asanb:
Those who separate human beings into categories to be hated based upon race, religion, or nationality demonstrate the fact that they have failed to understand the teachings of Jesus or any other great soul of the past.




Peace

12/18/2016 6:17:07 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (263,629)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


Quote from asanb:
People need to put God in a box so that they reduce what is beyond understanding into something that can be can conceptualized and understood. What is so silly is that God has already simplified that problem by sending himself to us many times and in many ways as another human being. We just don't notice or seek him out because he doesn't promulgate the right book, or he's the wrong race, or some other label that does not suit us.

God come into expression as the universe, but is manifest more in consciousness and is most sublime as a living saint.




God can't be put in a box!

But humanity certainly can.

Food for thought.

12/18/2016 8:11:50 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
2times2many
Over 2,000 Posts (3,233)
Greenwood Lake, NY
32, joined Jan. 2014


Quote from fyathyrio:
All I want is decent conversation with a Christian who is willing to discuss their answer to this question.

If you can believe in an eternal God that created the universe then why not just believe in an eternal universe understood as God?

Sure, i could believe it. Sounds feasible.

12/18/2016 8:36:04 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


We can't believe that, Fyathyrio, because that is not how God revealed Himself to be, to Moses and the other profits.

12/20/2016 3:51:09 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
2times2many
Over 2,000 Posts (3,233)
Greenwood Lake, NY
32, joined Jan. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
We can't believe that, Fyathyrio, because that is not how God revealed Himself to be, to Moses and the other profits.

True

12/20/2016 4:50:10 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

mistalee410
Over 1,000 Posts (1,472)
Phoenix, AZ
32, joined Jul. 2014


Im kinda curious as to when string theory became reL sciece. I mean... sure, it has its uses un explaing what quantum pbysics cannot. But thats like saying if you burn helium at a temperature of 34 weeks a month, because the shoe is blue.

12/20/2016 5:30:35 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


I guess thst should be"prophets" not "profits".

12/20/2016 11:09:27 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (263,629)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


Depends on the equation, doesn't it?

Dang, where is your folks logic?

12/23/2016 6:43:28 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
starr_baby_doll
Over 2,000 Posts (3,510)
Danville, IL
33, joined Sep. 2016


Weed is from the Earth.. That's all I came in to say

12/23/2016 7:44:21 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014




12/26/2016 8:47:34 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from cupocheer:


God can't be put in a box!

But humanity certainly can.

Food for thought.


Christianity puts God into a nice convenient box tied up with emotional logic, dogma and lots of promises and premises.
The first fallacy of Christianity is that you can become his disciple even though he has left the body.

12/26/2016 12:11:22 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


What does the phrase "God cannot be put in a box" even mean?

12/26/2016 12:25:36 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

iam_resurrected
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,779)
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014


it's typically 2 views.

1 view limits God abilities to be the all power, present, knowing God by keeping him only on a personal level.

1 view enables God to be all God claims to be but does not allow him to become personable.

if you could just see God as one who is possible to do ALL THINGS then you will see Him as ALL powerful, knowing, seeing, personal one on one FRIEND and Savior you might finally have some of the TRUE understanding of who CHRIST truthfully was. is, and yet is to come


if he is the first and the LAST then He has yet to return!!!

12/26/2016 4:50:35 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Box-
Defining the undefinable, and ascribing human characteristics to that definition. limiting the limitless. Creating narrow understandings and "rules' for a relationship with this imaginary friend.
Naming Jesus or some other persona of the past as the sole gatekeeper to this imaginary friend.
Adopting intellectual and emotional constructs, inventions of the mind, and worshipping them as "God"

12/26/2016 4:55:11 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Why is God necessarily undefinable, and why is it impossible for Hod to have some characteristics He shares with His creatures, andvwhy can't Jesus, God's Incarnate Son, be Heaven's Gatekeeper?

12/26/2016 6:59:31 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

iam_resurrected
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,779)
Reno, NV
46, joined Jul. 2014


Quote from asanb:
Box-
Defining the undefinable, and ascribing human characteristics to that definition. limiting the limitless. Creating narrow understandings and "rules' for a relationship with this imaginary friend.
Naming Jesus or some other persona of the past as the sole gatekeeper to this imaginary friend.
Adopting intellectual and emotional constructs, inventions of the mind, and worshipping them as "God"




if the scriptures were in fact God Breathed (inspired), then we are not limiting him by defining him since he limited Himself and defined Himself for us.

he said he was the first and last and his knowledge was beyond ours.

he said he was as close to us as a brother and that no matter what he is ALWAYS with us.

so, he limits himself to our understanding.

yes of course I would believe I am totally incapable of knowing anything about HIM outside what he gave to us through HIS WORD.


but then again, all paths have a way to their own ways to achieve what those in Christ hope to achieve.
so all of them define and limit by their own humanity.

so to believe in Christ I see him as he said to see him
Remove the body of Jesus and you have CHRIST the Anointed (invisible God).
Colossians says CHRIST Jesus (Body) is the image of the (invisible God).
How can a body be image to something invisible?
remove the flesh of (Jesus) you have LEFT is Christ (at His death and Resurrection) he says do not touch me you cannot touch me.
he is the invisible God here as CHRIST the Anointed.

So, when Christ said if you SEE my Father you SEE Me, and when you SEE Me you SEE my Father and WE ARE ONE AND THE SAME...it means CHRIST the Anointed and Jehova are the SAME and Jesus the body is the physical appearance of God.


makes sense since in John 8 they ask Jesus, who art thou.
Jesus replies, I Am before Abram, I AM THAT I AM (burning bush Moses I AM THAT I AM) (he tells Moses remove your shoes for this is holy ground I am (THE ONE TO BE)(Moses knew Him as JEHOVA)(CHRIST CLAIMS he was I AM THAT I AM).

that makes Christ making HIMSELF JEHOVA.

if he tells me how to define Himself then I shall be fine with just that



[Edited 12/26/2016 7:01:40 PM ]

12/26/2016 8:51:22 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Well said, Iam. I agree completely.

12/26/2016 10:42:01 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from iam_resurrected:
if the scriptures were in fact God Breathed (inspired), then we are not limiting him by defining him since he limited Himself and defined Himself for us.


And that, my friend, is the crux of the question.
The best minds and faithful theologians question the veracity of the KJV and it's derivative authorship. Why are there entire gospels that are unpublished? what institutional influence is present in the transcriptions and translations?
Who really wrote that book, and what did they have in mind?

Forming a religion is just an easy set of editorial influences between the real words of the living master and the institutions that gain from a "guided " version of thier words.



he said he was the first and last and his knowledge was beyond ours.

he said he was as close to us as a brother and that no matter what he is ALWAYS with us.

so, he limits himself to our understanding.

All of the god men of the past have said the same, but we are deprived of their teachings by the jealous Church. Exclusivity is a trademark of institutional weakness. The claim of exclusive truth is an invitation to willful ignorance.


yes of course I would believe I am totally incapable of knowing anything about HIM outside what he gave to us through HIS WORD.


but then again, all paths have a way to their own ways to achieve what those in Christ hope to achieve.
so all of them define and limit by their own humanity.

so to believe in Christ I see him as he said to see him
Remove the body of Jesus and you have CHRIST the Anointed (invisible God).
Colossians says CHRIST Jesus (Body) is the image of the (invisible God).
How can a body be image to something invisible?
remove the flesh of (Jesus) you have LEFT is Christ (at His death and Resurrection) he says do not touch me you cannot touch me.
he is the invisible God here as CHRIST the Anointed.

So, when Christ said if you SEE my Father you SEE Me, and when you SEE Me you SEE my Father and WE ARE ONE AND THE SAME...it means CHRIST the Anointed and Jehova are the SAME and Jesus the body is the physical appearance of God.


makes sense since in John 8 they ask Jesus, who art thou.
Jesus replies, I Am before Abram, I AM THAT I AM (burning bush Moses I AM THAT I AM) (he tells Moses remove your shoes for this is holy ground I am (THE ONE TO BE)(Moses knew Him as JEHOVA)(CHRIST CLAIMS he was I AM THAT I AM).

that makes Christ making HIMSELF JEHOVA.

if he tells me how to define Himself then I shall be fine with just that


According to an interpretation of the Bible, a book that is in reality a collection of "news" from various places and times.

The old testament was intended to be a morality play for the faithful in order to convey a value. The new Testament is a collection of "news" from various authors. Most of them were not first hand witnesses.


There is a difference between "Christ is God" and "The Christ power is a manifestation of God". Christ was before and after Jesus, and came in many forms and names. The Word has been made flesh many times and with many names.
It is valid that you quote the importance of SEEING, rather than Believing. One can SEE the God within themselves without the crutch of "belief", church, or even an anecdotal knowledge of the life of the legendary Jesus of Nazareth. How unfortunate for the clergy, the church, and the zealot.

12/27/2016 2:58:59 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Nonbeliever: Teach us about God.

Believer: God has revealed Himself, theough all the Old Testament prophets, and through the Divine Prophet Jesus Christ in the New Testament, to be a certain way, and to have certain characteristics.

Nonbeliever: Oh, horrors! By teaching us about God, you are putting God in a box!

Maybe the nonbeliever did not really want to learn about God?

12/27/2016 3:33:28 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from asanb:
According to an interpretation of the Bible, a book that is in reality a collection of "news" from various places and times.

The old testament was intended to be a morality play for the faithful in order to convey a value. The new Testament is a collection of "news" from various authors. Most of them were not first hand witnesses.


There is a difference between "Christ is God" and "The Christ power is a manifestation of God". Christ was before and after Jesus, and came in many forms and names. The Word has been made flesh many times and with many names.
It is valid that you quote the importance of SEEING, rather than Believing. One can SEE the God within themselves without the crutch of "belief", church, or even an anecdotal knowledge of the life of the legendary Jesus of Nazareth. How unfortunate for the clergy, the church, and the zealot.




12/27/2016 5:23:13 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Jesus could have been merely a manifestation of God's power. Any human being, or anything God has created, is a manifestation of His power and goodness. But Jesus is more than this---Jesus is God Incarnate. See John 1:1-14.

12/28/2016 7:13:38 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Jesus could have been merely a manifestation of God's power. Any human being, or anything God has created, is a manifestation of His power and goodness. But Jesus is more than this---Jesus is God Incarnate. See John 1:1-14.

No, don't quote me verses of "The Bible", it is the least understood and most misinterpreted book in western culture.
Without the analysis of an elevated soul who understands the real references and their import, the bible is a road-map to ignorance.

All God-men who have come into this world are God incarnate

12/28/2016 7:18:54 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Nonbeliever: Teach us about God.

Believer: God has revealed Himself, theough all the Old Testament prophets, and through the Divine Prophet Jesus Christ in the New Testament, to be a certain way, and to have certain characteristics.

Nonbeliever: Oh my, I thought God was a living reality that I could experience and comune with. By defining God as someone else's revelation from a book, you have put God in a box.


12/28/2016 7:57:22 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Quote from asanb:


I didn't say that, Asanb. I didn't think you were so dishonest that you would tell an out-and-out lie.

Asanb, we seldom agreed, but I had always thought of you at least as a sincere seeker of truth. Now I know different.

12/28/2016 8:21:33 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Nonbeliever: Teach us about God.

Believer: God has revealed Himself, theough all the Old Testament prophets, and through the Divine Prophet Jesus Christ in the New Testament, to be a certain way, and to have certain characteristics.

Nonbeliever: Oh, horrors! By teaching us about God, you are putting God in a box!

Maybe the nonbeliever did not really want to learn about God?



Are you trying to say you didn't write this, is this what you quoted??

12/28/2016 8:38:18 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


What you posted is what I said, Rufftreasure. But read what Asanb said I said (two frames prior to yours)---it is quite different. Asanb somehow manipulated the quote function and changed my words.



[Edited 12/28/2016 8:38:58 PM ]

12/28/2016 10:25:45 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


Okay I see what you mean

I gotta hand it to him though, his fixin your words makes more sense to me.

12/29/2016 7:42:31 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Ok, so I did a little funny with your quote.. sorry. what about the meaning of it?

12/29/2016 7:53:25 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


The church and the Bible offer salvation that is fallacy at it's foundation. You cannot experience God vicariously through a book or an intermediary. The revelations that are found in the Bible belong to those who experienced them, not to those who read them. you cannot claim someone Else's revelation as your own. you must find your own and experience it first hand. The church promises what it cannot deliver , because it doesn't own it.
spiritual experiences are the gift of the living to the living. Dead prophets and saviors cannot convey them through a book.

12/29/2016 7:59:21 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss.  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (35,055)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Trith is objective, Asanb, not sujective.