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1/16/2017 7:34:15 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Believing in eternal life and experiencing it are two different things. Plenty of believers get to take another round on the wheel of birth and death, not remembering their past lives. The soul is eternal but the mind and personality are not.
Those who transcend this existence while living begin the ascension toward eternal life consciously and need not be reborn.

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1/16/2017 7:50:55 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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Quote from fyathyrio:
Well that is more a reflection of you than me kbb.....
If your opinion held any value for me I might be offended.

You don't have to value my opinion. Your expressed desire to cease to exist after death speaks for itself

It sounds like you want to remain who you are now even in the afterlife.

You are spewing out crap without thinking. Its my desire not to have to go through the first grade again and to journey on in Gods divine plan for universe ascension and perfection.

I don't know what happens after I die, but I just feel like who I am now is not the whole picture so, the idea that I would be the same person/personality while possible doesn't seem probable.

If you feel like who you are now is not the whole picture and I assume you want to make of yourself a better more enlightened person why would you desire not to exist after death?

I feel that it would be more grand if you will.

If I will what?

I believe in reincarnation do you?

No, I don't. I think the evolving soul that chooses to seek God and become like Him is resurrected after death and journeys forth on other worlds with different environments and circumstances in a long divine ascension plan towards perfection and oneness/likeness with God. Reincarnation is the belief held by those who assert "self" over everything else. You have no power of reincarnation and if you think you do you are going to be sadly mistaken.

I note in your profile you say the following:

"My ultimate goal is to get paid to think and to be remembered for my thoughts. I want to be quoted long after I am gone. I am looking for a smart and enthusiastic lady who is also spiritual and compassiionate. It is all about personality with me."

Why do you think anyone would want to remember your thoughts that God is NOT a divine loving and caring personality that can be experienced within who promises eternal life to those who seek Him but rather a impersonal it, force, energy or light that doesn't care about anything?

1/16/2017 8:13:25 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

fyathyrio
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Savannah, GA
48, joined Nov. 2009


Quote from kb2222:
No, I don't. I think the evolving soul that chooses to seek God and become like Him is resurrected after death and journeys forth on other worlds with different environments and circumstances in a long divine ascension plan towards perfection and oneness/likeness with God. Reincarnation is the belief held by those who assert "self" over everything else. You have no power of reincarnation and if you think you do you are going to be sadly mistaken.

I note in your profile you say the following:

"My ultimate goal is to get paid to think and to be remembered for my thoughts. I want to be quoted long after I am gone. I am looking for a smart and enthusiastic lady who is also spiritual and compassiionate. It is all about personality with me."

Why do you think anyone would want to remember your thoughts that God is NOT a divine loving and caring personality that can be experienced within who promises eternal life to those who seek Him but rather a impersonal it, force, energy or light that doesn't care about anything?


Are you not following what I have been saying because I clearly said that I feel there is more after I die. I just don't know what that is.

Why do you keep saying that I don't?

As far as my desire to be remembered after I die, perhaps that is a bit of ego.

I have thoughts on various subjects and to me being recognized for my thinking holds a certain appeal. That too is probably just more ego, but at least I am aware of it.


And people don't have to agree with me and some wont, but what I wont do is run around the mountain telling them they are wrong.

So, are you done wasting your time???

1/16/2017 8:22:58 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  
cupocheer
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Time is never wasted if one engaged in movement towards positive goal.

1/16/2017 8:23:44 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (12,672)
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from kb2222:
From what you say, fyathyrio, your personality ceases to exist at death and you "turn into your true nature which is light." In believing this are you saying when death overtakes you that's the end of your existence except as light?

Quote from fyathyrio:
That's right



Quote from fyathyrio:
So, are you done wasting your time???

Yes.

1/16/2017 8:43:19 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

fyathyrio
Over 2,000 Posts (2,648)
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Quote from kb2222:
Quote from kb2222:
From what you say, fyathyrio, your personality ceases to exist at death and you "turn into your true nature which is light." In believing this are you saying when death overtakes you that's the end of your existence except as light?

Quote from fyathyrio:
That's right



Quote from fyathyrio:
So, are you done wasting your time???

Yes.


OK thank you for the spirited discussion.

1/16/2017 9:02:57 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

fyathyrio
Over 2,000 Posts (2,648)
Savannah, GA
48, joined Nov. 2009


Quote from cupocheer:
Time is never wasted if one engaged in movement towards positive goal.



"If" is right.

1/19/2017 8:04:00 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Hazrat Inayat Khan in his book The Mysticism of Sound speaks of the creation as the "Music of God," and tells us that Saut-i-Sarmad is the intoxicating vintage from the Garden of God.

All space, he says, is filled with Saut-i-Sarmad or the Abstract Sound. The vibrations of this Sound are too fine to be either audible or visible to the material ears or eyes, since it is even difficult for the eyes to see the form or color of the ether vibrations on the external plane. It was Saut-i-Sarmad, which Mohammed heard in the cave of Hira, when he became lost in his ideal. The Koran refers to it as Kun-feu-kun---Be and all became. Moses heard this very Sound on Koh-i-Toor or Mount Sinai, when in communion with God. The same Word was audible to Christ when absorbed in his heavenly Father in the wilderness. Siva heard the same Anhad-Naad in the Himalayas. The flute of Krishna is allegorically symbolic of the same Sound. This Sound is the source of all revelation to the Masters to whom it is revealed from within and, therefore, they know and teach the one and the same Truth for it is in this abstract reality that all the blessed ones of God unite.
This Sound of the Abstract is always going on within, around and about man. Those who are able to hear it and meditate on it are relieved from all worries, anxieties, sorrows, fears and diseases, and the soul is freed from the captivity of the senses and the physical body, and becomes part of the All-pervading Consciousness.

http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/col/col-6a.htm

1/19/2017 8:40:51 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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Meditative relief from "all worries, anxieties, sorrows, fears and diseases" may be the desire of some. But the overwhelming desire of God knowing/seeking/spiritually led individuals is the attainment of the perfection of being, the ultimate atonement, the at-one-ment or oneness/likeness/unity with Gods divine loving eternal, unchanging and infinite personality.

1/19/2017 9:00:14 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Quote from kb2222:
Meditative relief from "all worries, anxieties, sorrows, fears and diseases" may be the desire of some. But the overwhelming desire of God knowing/seeking/spiritually led individuals is the attainment of the perfection of being, the ultimate atonement, the at-one-ment or oneness/likeness/unity with Gods divine loving eternal, unchanging and infinite personality.


And what is the practical path for achieving that? Reading books?
Following Jesus? It's kind of hard to figure out who Jesus really is. He left the body 2000 years ago and never wrote down anything himself, so it's like third or fourth hand stories. Why is it so hard to understand that Jesus (or rather the Christ power) has been among us thousands of times in so many forms? Why are thier teachings any less than his? The Sikh Gurus all speak of attaining exactly the same end as you recommend
As did Zoroaster, Kabir, Buleh Sha, and the modern Saints of Beas.
Union with the Creator is the spiritual goal of all religions and that goal supcedes all the rituals and rules. What good is a school that graduates no-one?

"unity with God's loving eternal, unchanging self" is the underlying goal of Buddists and Jews and Muslims also. Why can you not accept that validity?

1/20/2017 7:13:45 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

rufftreasure
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Quote from asanb:
And what is the practical path for achieving that? Reading books?
Following Jesus? It's kind of hard to figure out who Jesus really is. He left the body 2000 years ago and never wrote down anything himself, so it's like third or fourth hand stories. Why is it so hard to understand that Jesus (or rather the Christ power) has been among us thousands of times in so many forms? Why are thier teachings any less than his? The Sikh Gurus all speak of attaining exactly the same end as you recommend
As did Zoroaster, Kabir, Buleh Sha, and the modern Saints of Beas.
Union with the Creator is the spiritual goal of all religions and that goal supcedes all the rituals and rules. What good is a school that graduates no-one?

"unity with God's loving eternal, unchanging self" is the underlying goal of Buddists and Jews and Muslims also. Why can you not accept that validity?



I'm waiting to see a straight answer, too.

1/20/2017 9:18:29 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

ludlowlowell
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How about these words of Jesus for an answer:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one goes to the Father except by me." There is fluffy stuff that makes us feel good, stuff St. John of the Cross calls spiritual materialism, and then there is objective truth.

1/20/2017 9:23:58 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

rufftreasure
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If it bit you on the a** you wouldn't understand that concept at it's fullest

The difference, that is.



[Edited 1/20/2017 9:24:30 AM ]

1/20/2017 9:58:30 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
How about these words of Jesus for an answer:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one goes to the Father except by me." There is fluffy stuff that makes us feel good, stuff St. John of the Cross calls spiritual materialism, and then there is objective truth.


Jesus said that to the living people around him, while he was alive. He did not say "for all time", did he?

1/20/2017 10:23:52 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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Quote from asanb:
And what is the practical path for achieving that?

Knowing God and yourself as a son of God by listening to the Holy Spirit of Truth, the Spirit of the Son that Jesus poured out upon the world at Pentecost.

Reading books?

Why do you say you don't read books, asanb, when its obvious you do read books or articles or writings of others ostensibly to consider what others think and say?

Following Jesus? It's kind of hard to figure out who Jesus really is. He left the body 2000 years ago and never wrote down anything himself, so it's like third or fourth hand stories.

Well, if you really want a "first hand account" of who Jesus was and what He taught while on the earth 2,000 years ago then you should definitely read/study the Urantia Book which was prepared by celestial agents of Gods government that keep accurate records of such things.

Why is it so hard to understand that Jesus (or rather the Christ power) has been among us thousands of times in so many forms? Why are thier teachings any less than his? The Sikh Gurus all speak of attaining exactly the same end as you recommend
As did Zoroaster, Kabir, Buleh Sha, and the modern Saints of Beas.
Union with the Creator is the spiritual goal of all religions and that goal supcedes all the rituals and rules.

Jesus taught salvation from self, to know God and yourself as a son of God and He sent into the world at Pentecost the Holy Spirit of truth as His replacement teacher and that is the only teacher man who has realized his sonship with God really needs to guide him towards increasing union with God the Father.

What good is a school that graduates no-one?

What school are you talking about?

"unity with God's loving eternal, unchanging self" is the underlying goal of Buddists and Jews and Muslims also. Why can you not accept that validity?

Buddha knew God in spirit but failed clearly to discover him in mind; the Jews discovered God in mind but largely failed to know him in spirit. Islam's strength is its clear-cut concept of Allah as the one and only Deity; its weakness, the association of military force with its promulgation, together with its degradation of woman.

Why have you found it necessary to misquote me changing "personality" to "self"?

Who is this "loving eternal, unchanging self" you refer to as "the underlying goal" but refuse to acknowledge as a personality, asanb?

1/20/2017 10:51:25 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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"Knowing God and yourself as a son of God by listening to the Holy Spirit of Truth, the Spirit of the Son that Jesus poured out upon the world at Pentecost. "

How does one "listen to the holy spirit of Truth"?

"Knowing God and yourself as a son of God"
Is this something I repeat to myself until it's imprinted in my brain?

How about understanding myself to be a conscious co-worker of the divine plan?
Or a least accepting that I am divine in essence?

1/20/2017 10:53:40 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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"Well, if you really want a "first hand account" of who Jesus was and what He taught while on the earth 2,000 years ago then you should definitely read/study the Urantia Book which was prepared by celestial agents of Gods government that keep accurate records of such things."

If I read it, do I get to think of myself as Jesus disciple?

1/20/2017 10:59:47 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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What's the matter, asanb, can't you bring yourself to quote my post and respond to each statement/question in a sincere fashion?

1/20/2017 12:23:26 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

fyathyrio
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Savannah, GA
48, joined Nov. 2009


Know then thyself
Presume not God to scan
The proper study of mankind
is man.

1/20/2017 12:26:45 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

fyathyrio
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Savannah, GA
48, joined Nov. 2009


Man is a most insane species. He worhips an invisible God while destroying a visible nature without knowing that this nature is the invisible God that he worships.

1/20/2017 1:25:43 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Quote from kb2222:
What's the matter, asanb, can't you bring yourself to quote my post and respond to each statement/question in a sincere fashion?

How does one "listen to the holy spirit of Truth"?

1/20/2017 1:28:33 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Quote from fyathyrio:
Man is a most insane species. He worhips an invisible God while destroying a visible nature without knowing that this nature is the invisible God that he worships.

Worse than that, the God he worships lives in the heart of the other human being that might not belong to the "right" group of people.

1/20/2017 2:47:46 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

ludlowlowell
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"For as many as you have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ. There is neither Jew mor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you all are one in Christ Jesus. And if you be Christ's, then are you the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

--Galatians 3:27-29

1/20/2017 3:44:23 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (12,672)
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


*
Quote from asanb:
And what is the practical path for achieving that?

Knowing God and yourself as a son of God by listening to the Holy Spirit of Truth, the Spirit of the Son that Jesus poured out upon the world at Pentecost.

Reading books?

Why do you say you don't read books, asanb, when its obvious you do read books or articles or writings of others ostensibly to consider what others think and say?

Following Jesus? It's kind of hard to figure out who Jesus really is. He left the body 2000 years ago and never wrote down anything himself, so it's like third or fourth hand stories.

Well, if you really want a "first hand account" of who Jesus was and what He taught while on the earth 2,000 years ago then you should definitely read/study the Urantia Book which was prepared by celestial agents of Gods government that keep accurate records of such things.

Why is it so hard to understand that Jesus (or rather the Christ power) has been among us thousands of times in so many forms? Why are thier teachings any less than his? The Sikh Gurus all speak of attaining exactly the same end as you recommend
As did Zoroaster, Kabir, Buleh Sha, and the modern Saints of Beas.
Union with the Creator is the spiritual goal of all religions and that goal supcedes all the rituals and rules.

Jesus taught salvation from self, to know God and yourself as a son of God and He sent into the world at Pentecost the Holy Spirit of truth as His replacement teacher and that is the only teacher man who has realized his sonship with God really needs to guide him towards increasing union with God the Father.

What good is a school that graduates no-one?

What school are you talking about?

"unity with God's loving eternal, unchanging self" is the underlying goal of Buddists and Jews and Muslims also. Why can you not accept that validity?

Buddha knew God in spirit but failed clearly to discover him in mind; the Jews discovered God in mind but largely failed to know him in spirit. Islam's strength is its clear-cut concept of Allah as the one and only Deity; its weakness, the association of military force with its promulgation, together with its degradation of woman.

Why have you found it necessary to misquote me changing "personality" to "self"?

Who is this "loving eternal, unchanging self" you refer to as "the underlying goal" but refuse to acknowledge as a personality, asanb?

Why don't you quote and honestly respond, asanb?



[Edited 1/20/2017 3:45:48 PM ]

1/20/2017 5:34:00 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

fyathyrio
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Savannah, GA
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"The knower and the known are one. Simple people imagine that they should see God as if he stood there and they here. This is not so. God and I, we are one in knowledge."
Meister Eckhart

"All are but parts of one stupendous whole, whose body nature is, and God the soul."
Alexander Pope


Some people read books their whole life and think they still have things to learn and then some read one book and think they know everything.

1/20/2017 6:16:00 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from kb2222:
From what you say, fyathyrio, your personality ceases to exist at death and you "turn into your true nature which is light." In believing this are you saying when death overtakes you that's the end of your existence except as light?

Quote from fyathyrio:
That's right


1/20/2017 6:38:09 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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" He sent into the world at Pentecost the Holy Spirit of truth as His replacement teacher and that is the only teacher man who has realized his sonship with God really needs to guide him towards increasing union with God the Father. "

How does one come into "realizing" ones "sonship with God"?

Belief? It all centers around belief, and then the Holy spirit will teach us.

I will tell you that I am skeptical and mostly an Un believer in the
TUB as a source of any credible advise or spiritual guidance as it is of questionable origination to begin with, and questionable content from what I have read about it.

When you boil it down to understandable statements as you have here, it reads exactly like every other Christian promissory note: Be good, worship Jesus, have faith, and you will be guided by the holy spirit to become worthy of entering heaven when you die.

When simple transcendental techniques are available in the here and now that can be experienced first hand that deliver coin in hand, why would one entrust the future to blind faith?

You can argue all day long that the sun isn't shining because your book says that you have to "believe" in the light before you can see it. Unless you simply pull back the shade and look for yourself, it's all a wrestling match in the dark. Living in the dark as you proclaim the one true way to the light, with closed eyes.

1/20/2017 6:43:18 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (12,672)
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


Why did you find it necessary to misquote me changing "personality" to "self"?

Who is this "loving eternal, unchanging self" you refer to as "the underlying goal" but refuse to acknowledge as a personality, asanb?

Why don't you honestly respond, asanb?

1/20/2017 7:07:17 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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"Truly speaking, we are not really theists. How? When we talk of God, we do so on hearsay or from our knowledge of the scriptures. We have no first-hand experience of it.
Unless we see and experience for ourselves, unless we have a first-hand experience of our own Selves, and come in contact with that Reality, unless our inner eye is opened and we see the Light of God within us, we cannot be convinced. We may read the scriptures. We may come across a Master and hear his words of wisdom on the subject, yet we will not be really convinced. We may accept what they say, and make it the basis of our search for God. But till we see and experience God within ourselves, we can never be fully convinced, and thus become real theists."

http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/kingdom.htm

1/20/2017 7:12:56 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Quote from kb2222:
Why did you find it necessary to misquote me changing "personality" to "self"?

Who is this "loving eternal, unchanging self" you refer to as "the underlying goal" but refuse to acknowledge as a personality, asanb?

Why don't you honestly respond, asanb?


Your fixation with " god is a personality" may be important to you, but it isn't to me.
We have had this conversation what, a dozen times?
OK KB God is a personality

God is also beyond definition, beyond understanding
Beyond all knowledge, indescribable and formless.

What about all the rest of the urantian stuff that is so important for me to believe?

1/20/2017 7:17:17 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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@ KB222
" I am on the path home (Godward) but sadly you are not. You are not because you don't believe God is a personality."

I think you need to justify this statement with a lot of reasons.

I have heard the same from a whole lot of Bible thumpers who profess Jesus to the rafters.

Tell me why "Belief" is the prerequisite to "Godward"?

Belief and Devotion are not of the same definition.



[Edited 1/20/2017 7:18:09 PM ]

1/20/2017 7:39:28 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (12,672)
Jacksonville, FL
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Quote from asanb:
Your fixation with " god is a personality" may be important to you, but it isn't to me.
We have had this conversation what, a dozen times?
OK KB God is a personality

God is also beyond definition, beyond understanding
Beyond all knowledge, indescribable and formless.

I agree but this being so how could God be anything less than a divine loving personality?

What about all the rest of the urantian stuff that is so important for me to believe?

I quoted this before. Why don't you give it serious thought.

The Reality of God

1:2.1 (23.4) God is primal reality in the spirit world; God is the source of truth in the mind spheres; God overshadows all throughout the material realms. To all created intelligences God is a personality, and to the universe of universes he is the First Source and Center of eternal reality. God is neither manlike nor machinelike. The First Father is universal spirit, eternal truth, infinite reality, and father personality.

1:2.2 (23.5) The eternal God is infinitely more than reality idealized or the universe personalized. God is not simply the supreme desire of man, the mortal quest objectified. Neither is God merely a concept, the power-potential of righteousness. The Universal Father is not a synonym for nature, neither is he natural law personified. God is a transcendent reality, not merely man’s traditional concept of supreme values. God is not a psychological focalization of spiritual meanings, neither is he “the noblest work of man.” God may be any or all of these concepts in the minds of men, but he is more. He is a saving person and a loving Father to all who enjoy spiritual peace on earth, and who crave to experience personality survival in death.

The term God always denotes personality, asanb. If you disagree then you and the rest of your "masters" should stop referring to God as a "he" or "him" and substitute "It." Doncha think?

1/20/2017 7:51:15 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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Jacksonville, FL
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Quote from asanb:
@ KB222
" I am on the path home (Godward) but sadly you are not. You are not because you don't believe God is a personality."

I think you need to justify this statement with a lot of reasons.

I have heard the same from a whole lot of Bible thumpers who profess Jesus to the rafters.

Tell me why "Belief" is the prerequisite to "Godward"?

Belief and Devotion are not of the same definition.

How do you think you can have a personal relationship or love or abide by the will of a "impersonal it" asanb? God is personality and personality is the unifier of mind and spirit. Do you want to be a noble and divine personality? Or do you want to exist only as a force or energy that doesn't care about anything?

1/20/2017 10:52:27 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Quote from kb2222:
How do you think you can have a personal relationship or love or abide by the will of a "impersonal it" asanb? God is personality and personality is the unifier of mind and spirit. Do you want to be a noble and divine personality? Or do you want to exist only as a force or energy that doesn't care about anything?

No one can have that kind of relationship with a far removed and mostly imaginary God.
That is why God comes to man in the form of a man.
Jesus disciples learned the way from someone they could see and touch and who guided them with love. You and the rest of Christianity do not have that oportunity because he has left the body.
You can have a real relationship with another human being who as walked the path to enlightenment and knows the way and can guide you.
They have been among us always. Jesus was not the only one.
BTW:
Your characterization of an "impersonal" God is presumptive . Can you imagine swimming in an ocean of love? How do you know what the characteristics of a diety that is not a "personality" might be.

You read about God in one book and you are now an expert of "what God is".........

1/20/2017 10:57:26 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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And also BTW:
you might stop quoting TUB as a source of "facts" to back up your opinions. It's a fairly shaky source for anything factual.

1/21/2017 6:18:19 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

fyathyrio
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Quote from kb2222:
How do you think you can have a personal relationship or love or abide by the will of a "impersonal it" asanb? God is personality and personality is the unifier of mind and spirit. Do you want to be a noble and divine personality? Or do you want to exist only as a force or energy that doesn't care about anything?



I see you are still running around the mountain wasting time.
Good luck with that.

1/21/2017 10:33:16 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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Quote from asanb:
Your characterization of an "impersonal" God is presumptive .



It was YOU way back in our conversations that declared God was not a personality but rather a "impersonal it" and you still do.

Can you imagine swimming in an ocean of love?

Well, if its your desire to become that ocean of love then you are swimming in love of self while destroying self.

How do you know what the characteristics of a diety that is not a "personality" might be.

Only a personality can truly love another personality.

:7.2 (31.2) Man does not achieve union with God as a drop of water might find unity with the ocean. Man attains divine union by progressive reciprocal spiritual communion, by personality intercourse with the personal God, by increasingly attaining the divine nature through wholehearted and intelligent conformity to the divine will. Such a sublime relationship can exist only between personalities.

1:7.3 (31.3) The concept of truth might possibly be entertained apart from personality, the concept of beauty may exist without personality, but the concept of divine goodness is understandable only in relation to personality. Only a person can love and be loved. Even beauty and truth would be divorced from survival hope if they were not attributes of a personal God, a loving Father.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Again,

The term God always denotes personality, asanb & fyathyrio. If you disagree then you and the rest of your "masters" should stop referring to God as a "he" or "him" and substitute "it." Doncha think?

1/21/2017 11:08:44 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  
cupocheer
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1/21/2017 12:36:06 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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As a boy I grew up with vinyl records. Often my record player needle would hit a scratch in a track, bounce back and start over again. The only solution was to lift the needle and skip the scratch to continue playing the recording.

Today, the moment has come when the sounds of my thoughts fade, and then the needle lifts, the player dissolves, and the music that is always here can be heard.

Then I understand that what I have been holding onto were the scratches, the stuck needles, the distorted sounds, the players and the recordings, and that they are not real.

Learnings from Shantideva

The Indian monk Shantideva explained how to cultivate and expand compassion and wisdom in The Way of the Bodhisattva (translation by the Padmakara Translation Group — Shambhala 2008). Chapter 6 is about patience — following a few of the verses:

1. All the good works gathered in a thousand ages, such as deeds of generosity, and offerings to the Blissful Ones – a single flash of anger shatters them.

2. No evil is there similar to anger, no austerity to be compared with patience. Steep yourself, therefore, in patience, In various ways, insistently.

3. Those tormented by the pain of anger, never know tranquility of mind – strangers they will be to every pleasure, they will neither sleep nor feel secure.

http://beta.soulscode.com/screaming-at-me-my-buddhist-comeback/

1/21/2017 12:38:58 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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1/21/2017 12:47:46 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Quote from kb2222:
Quote from asanb:
Your characterization of an "impersonal" God is presumptive .



It was YOU way back in our conversations that declared God was not a personality but rather a "impersonal it" and you still do.

Can you imagine swimming in an ocean of love?

Well, if its your desire to become that ocean of love then you are swimming in love of self while destroying self.

How do you know what the characteristics of a diety that is not a "personality" might be.

Only a personality can truly love another personality.

:7.2 (31.2) Man does not achieve union with God as a drop of water might find unity with the ocean. Man attains divine union by progressive reciprocal spiritual communion, by personality intercourse with the personal God, by increasingly attaining the divine nature through wholehearted and intelligent conformity to the divine will. Such a sublime relationship can exist only between personalities.

1:7.3 (31.3) The concept of truth might possibly be entertained apart from personality, the concept of beauty may exist without personality, but the concept of divine goodness is understandable only in relation to personality. Only a person can love and be loved. Even beauty and truth would be divorced from survival hope if they were not attributes of a personal God, a loving Father.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Again,

The term God always denotes personality, asanb & fyathyrio. If you disagree then you and the rest of your "masters" should stop referring to God as a "he" or "him" and substitute "it." Doncha think?


Wow, you really take off and run with it, Doncha.
Ignore the rest of my post and gnaw at that bone.
so if one of my cats is a personality, then he must also be a soul, right?

1/21/2017 12:50:07 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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1/21/2017 1:23:18 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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Quote from asanb:
Wow, you really take off and run with it, Doncha.
Ignore the rest of my post and gnaw at that bone.
so if one of my cats is a personality, then he must also be a soul, right?

You didn't respond to anything I said. Why is that? Why don't you answer my question at the bottom of my post? What you believe is illogical nonsense. If God is an impersonal it why do you refer to God as "he" or "him"?

Cats are not persons and if God is "mostly an imaginary God" how can God come to man in the form or a man"?

You have a screw loose.

1/21/2017 10:03:37 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

olderthandirt20
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Quote from asanb:





1/21/2017 10:29:15 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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yes, Kb, God is a personality. God is the personality that we look at in the mirror every day. God is present in every conscious being. The quality of "awareness" is the qualifying feature that defines divinity within.
If you have seen God, perhaps you might describe Him to me so that I might recognize him also. If you have not seen God, how is it that you can say " god is this, and this, and this"?

1/21/2017 10:36:56 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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But it isn't as simple as that;
" "Name" and the "named" are, in fact, one and the same. There is hardly any distinction between the two: one is the abstract form of that which is concrete. Light cannot be separated from the sun. The two go together all the world over. Similarly Godhood and God cannot be demarcated and set aside in watertight compartments as two separate entities. The former is just an attribute of the latter. "Naam" is nothing more nor less than Godhood of God; one may call it what one may like - the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, etc. It is the primal manifestation of God, responsible for the entire creation. It is the primeval form of God. St. John speaks of it thus:


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life; and the life was the light of man. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehendeth it not. 1


In these memorable words, St. John has tried to give us some idea of the marvelous nature of the Word or Naam, as it is also called. It combines in it the triple principle of Creation, Sustenance and Destruction - the Trimurti of the Hindu mythology of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva - the Creator, the Preserver and the Destroyer respectively, all the three deriving their motor power from Godhood or God-in-action, Naam or Word.

Hazrat Moieen-ud-Din Chishti, in this context, says,

Name and the Named are but one,
Light of Name witnesseth His glory.

All that is, is of and from Naam, for it pervades everywhere. It is the life principle of the entire creation. He in whom this Word or Naam becomes personified is called a saint for it is said that, "Word was made flesh and dwelt among us." Such a one has reached the summum bonum of life and gained the El Dorado of human existence. For him there is nothing more to wish for and aspire for."

http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/naam/naam_b1_intro1.htm

1/21/2017 11:03:53 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

rufftreasure
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Quote from asanb:
yes, Kb, God is a personality. God is the personality that we look at in the mirror every day. God is present in every conscious being. The quality of "awareness" is the qualifying feature that defines divinity within.
If you have seen God, perhaps you might describe Him to me so that I might recognize him also. If you have not seen God, how is it that you can say " god is this, and this, and this"?





1/22/2017 5:09:09 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

ludlowlowell
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God is three personalities, and three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Not three gods, one God, three Persons.

1/22/2017 6:00:40 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

sail_dancer
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
God is three personalities, and three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Not three gods, one God, three Persons.


So ..... your god has "Multiple Personality Disorder" ..... is he currently in therapy for his mental problem?

Peace

1/22/2017 7:01:18 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

rufftreasure
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Quote from ludlowlowell:
God is three personalities, and three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Not three gods, one God, three Persons.



The Goddess in me says you're full of shit
The maiden, the mother, and the crone, all of which are experienced by humans, we as humans ARE the deities that WE create. Depending of course upon personal perception, and that means over 7 billion different ways to perceive God/Goddess, or NO deity at all. As much as humans want to believe Poppi is a lone Male God being, unbalanced for thousands of years, the Goddess is re-emerging to create balance after her imprisonment and banishment. We won't get fooled again.

The women's March all over the country , but specifically in Washington D.C., totally out numbered the attendance of the inauguration!!! Biggley
We don't wish to conquer men, we demand equality though, and have proven this with the numbers. We are a force to either work with, or to be reckoned with.



[Edited 1/22/2017 7:02:46 AM ]

1/22/2017 9:35:02 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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Quote from asanb:
yes, Kb, God is a personality. God is the personality that we look at in the mirror every day. God is present in every conscious being. The quality of "awareness" is the qualifying feature that defines divinity within.
If you have seen God, perhaps you might describe Him to me so that I might recognize him also. If you have not seen God, how is it that you can say " god is this, and this, and this"?

Well, my goodness, asanb, you have finally conceded that God is not an "impersonal it" but indeed a personality. But realize this, asanb, God is not just a personality but rather God is personality and while it is true that a fragment of God resides within every normal-minded person it is not true that when you look in the mirror you see the personality of God. Why would you think "you" see God when looking in the mirror when heretofore you have previously been asserting God is an "impersonal it" and you just got through claiming that God is "mostly an imaginary God"?

How in your mind can you rightly claim to see the personality of God when you claim God is "mostly an imaginary God" asanb?

What attributes do you see in a "mostly imaginary God" asanb?

1/22/2017 10:45:07 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Quote from kb2222:
Well, my goodness, asanb, you have finally conceded that God is not an "impersonal it" but indeed a personality. But realize this, asanb, God is not just a personality but rather God is personality and while it is true that a fragment of God resides within every normal-minded person it is not true that when you look in the mirror you see the personality of God. Why would you think "you" see God when looking in the mirror when heretofore you have previously been asserting God is an "impersonal it" and you just got through claiming that God is "mostly an imaginary God"?

How in your mind can you rightly claim to see the personality of God when you claim God is "mostly an imaginary God" asanb?

What attributes do you see in a "mostly imaginary God" asanb?


This is the God of the church, books and scriptures. The Grand Father of the mighty throne. The one that Urantians and most of Christianity and the Muslims worship. They read about him in books written by others who have not seen him either.
He is a product of the mind, they have to create Him from scriptural references because they have not seen him, nor do they wish to.
They are too busy being sensual, worldly and pious.
Jesus hinted and made parables about what God was, But mostly he spoke of "the Light of God" within. I suppose all questions about what God is would be answered by seeing that light firsthand. The Christian institutions have completely lost touch with it, and the fact that Urantia Book doesn't speak of it is the primary cause for me to dismiss it as a fraud. The KJV and the Quran both speak of that inner light, as do many other holy books.

They say that God resides in the heart of a devotee. I have met a few of them, and they are fairly direct about what it takes to become a conscious coworker of the divine plan. Sometimes I quote them here.
Not being much of a devotee myself, i have to defer to that level of experience. For now, I can quote my teacher who said things like "God is love and the way back to God is also love". He also said that God is light, and we are light.

1/22/2017 10:56:57 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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Asanb, why do you quote my post but not reply to what I said and answer my questions?

1/22/2017 11:25:25 AM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Quote from kb2222:
Asanb, why do you quote my post but not reply to what I said and answer my questions?


Sigh.. I most certainly did answer you. the problem is that your question is rife with assumptions and inferences about what I believe. I am not here to defend your assumptions.

It should be stated clearly that no matter what the length and breadth of discourse We will never define God and our relationship with God. Each peson has thier own and it is a matter of personal experience, wouldn't you say?
The intellect is not a large enough container for God.
It isn't how much we know of books and scripture that ultimately define God for one and all. It's personal.
God is that voice within us that speaks about the right thing to do, and that yearning that carries us into loving relationships.
Those who meditate are the ones that truly know, because they are alone within in god's presence. Those who pray sometimes also reach such meditative states. We are not the mind or body. We are an awareness, and with focused attention we can make the journey within.

1/22/2017 12:22:13 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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What attributes do you see in a "mostly imaginary God" asanb?

1/22/2017 3:32:18 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Quote from kb2222:
What attributes do you see in a "mostly imaginary God" asanb?

Where did I say that I know anything about one?

KB, you post what you think I believe, tell me that it's all messed up, and then say " well what do you have to say for yourself".

I don't have to defend what you post as my beliefs, as you have here. Most of which is completely erroneous. I am perfectly capable of expressing what i think

1/22/2017 3:40:38 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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And , really you might read my posts with a bit more discernment. You seem to have no trouble accepting the verbose wonderspeak of TUB. My posts are much simpler and to the point.
I posted about the God of book and scripture, how he is a fabrication of men's minds. Didn't you read it?

1/22/2017 4:15:41 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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Quote from asanb:
And , really you might read my posts with a bit more discernment. You seem to have no trouble accepting the verbose wonderspeak of TUB. My posts are much simpler and to the point.
I posted about the God of book and scripture, how he is a fabrication of men's minds. Didn't you read it?

You are so screwed up you obviously don't realize it. For years now you have claimed God is an "impersonal it" then you say God is a "personality" then you say "God is that voice within us that speaks about the right thing to do, and that yearning that carries us into loving relationships" then you say God is "mostly an imaginary God" and just above you say God is a "fabrication of men's minds."

So, in all honesty I must finally conclude you are just to screwed up to have a serious and honest discussion with, asnab.

1/22/2017 4:23:29 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

asanb
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Quote from kb2222:
You are so screwed up you obviously don't realize it. For years now you have claimed God is an "impersonal it" then you say God is a "personality" then you say "God is that voice within us that speaks about the right thing to do, and that yearning that carries us into loving relationships" then you say God is "mostly an imaginary God" and just above you say God is a "fabrication of men's minds."

So, in all honesty I must finally conclude you are just to screwed up to have a serious and honest discussion with, asnab.

I'm sorry to disappoint you.
You might, however, consider that you are casting me aside due to your interpretations of my posts, and not my original thoughts.
Why is that?

1/22/2017 4:27:27 PM The question Christians refuse to discuss. | Page 5  

kb2222
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Quote from asanb:
I'm sorry to disappoint you.
You might, however, consider that you are casting me aside due to your interpretations of my posts, and not my original thoughts.
Why is that?

What the pluck are you talking about? I quoted your contradictory beliefs/statements.