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10/5/2016 4:39:37 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,268)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


It's an analogy... the worm never dies in a garbage dump.

It's from Isaiah's message as "a picture of endless destruction".




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10/5/2016 4:46:45 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  
freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from slowpoke7:
Forgive me if I may be off topic but as far as punishment goes then what exactly is Jesus referring to in (Mark 9:43-48) KJV - when He says the worm dieth not?

(43) And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

(44) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

(45) And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

(46) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

(47) And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

(48) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.


I think we are way off topic, and these threads just post whatever is on someone's mind.

I recall an unbeliever saying he is more just than God if God's punishment is eternal. Even 1000 years punishment is better than eternal punishment.

Lord willing, whether hell exists or not; is eternal or not; hopefully it does not apply to us, as we are saved by believing in Jesus.

10/5/2016 5:08:46 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (34,030)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Belief in Jesus is necessary for salvation, but good works and avoidance of mortal sin is also necessary.

10/5/2016 5:22:04 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,555)
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from slowpoke7:
Forgive me if I may be off topic but as far as punishment goes then what exactly is Jesus referring to in (Mark 9:43-48) KJV - when He says the worm dieth not?

(43) And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

(44) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

(45) And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

(46) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

(47) And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

(48) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

This is the trouble with you church indoctrinated book worshippers. You have so subordinated your mind to church doctrine that you can't think for yourselves which is exactly what Satan wants. Jesus did not write the Bible. Worms die. And your hand, foot or eye cannot offend you for they are not some separate conscious entity beyond your control. How in the hell can your foot offend you? How in the hell can your hand offend You? Or your eye? They are parts of the body and you are in control of your body. Jesus did not utter these foolish words.



[Edited 10/5/2016 5:22:56 PM ]

10/5/2016 5:51:59 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


ludlow is still trying to buy his way into the Kingdom.

Poor guy.

The Catholic church lies and so does ludlow.

10/5/2016 5:54:14 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  
slowpoke7
Over 2,000 Posts (2,614)
Hendersonville, TN
76, joined Feb. 2011


Quote from freegratis:
I think we are way off topic, and these threads just post whatever is on someone's mind.

I recall an unbeliever saying he is more just than God if God's punishment is eternal. Even 1000 years punishment is better than eternal punishment.

Lord willing, whether hell exists or not; is eternal or not; hopefully it does not apply to us, as we are saved by believing in Jesus.

Thanks - by the way - this is the explanation for Mark 9:41-50 from…
http://htmlbible.com/kjv30/henry/index.htm

Verse 41-50 - It is repeatedly said of the wicked, Their worm dieth not, as well as, The fire is never quenched. Doubtless, remorse of conscience and keen self-reflection are this never-dying worm. Surely it is beyond compare better to undergo all possible pain, hardship, and self-denial here, and to be happy for ever hereafter, than to enjoy all kinds of worldly pleasure for a season, and to be miserable for ever. Like the sacrifices, we must be salted with salt; our corrupt affections must be subdued and mortified by the Holy Spirit. Those that have the salt of grace, must show they have a living principle of grace in their hearts, which works out corrupt dispositions in the soul that would offend God, or our own consciences.

10/5/2016 5:56:22 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,555)
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from slowpoke7:
Thanks - by the way - this is the explanation for Mark 9:41-50 from…
http://htmlbible.com/kjv30/henry/index.htm

Verse 41-50 - It is repeatedly said of the wicked, Their worm dieth not, as well as, The fire is never quenched. Doubtless, remorse of conscience and keen self-reflection are this never-dying worm. Surely it is beyond compare better to undergo all possible pain, hardship, and self-denial here, and to be happy for ever hereafter, than to enjoy all kinds of worldly pleasure for a season, and to be miserable for ever. Like the sacrifices, we must be salted with salt; our corrupt affections must be subdued and mortified by the Holy Spirit. Those that have the salt of grace, must show they have a living principle of grace in their hearts, which works out corrupt dispositions in the soul that would offend God, or our own consciences.

This is the trouble with you church indoctrinated book worshippers. You have so subordinated your mind to church doctrine that you can't think for yourselves which is exactly what Satan wants. Jesus did not write the Bible. Worms die. And your hand, foot or eye cannot offend you for they are not some separate conscious entity beyond your control. How in the hell can your foot offend you? How in the hell can your hand offend You? Or your eye? They are parts of the body and you are in control of your body. Jesus did not utter these foolish words.

10/5/2016 5:56:41 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,892)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Belief in Jesus is necessary for salvation, but good works and avoidance of mortal sin is also necessary.


Those are your cathlick assertions, they are not from Jesus. The other day you said prayers to Mary were required for salvation. YOU LIE.

You are a liar and a tool of Satan. Jesus says you do not love God.

This is all that is necessary for salvation:

...Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? (Luke 10:25)

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself." (Luke 10:27)

10/5/2016 9:08:42 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

share_n_love
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,859)
Fort Wayne, IN
61, joined Dec. 2012


Quote from freegratis:
Some quote John 3:16 as if Jesus paid for all mankind's sins. I disagree. I believe that is only for those who believe.

Mt 25:14-30 [Parable of the Talents] is similar to Luke 19:11-27, but the good are put in charge of cities (which sounds like the millennial reign), but the last verse says slay the evil (which sounds like destruction), while the last verse of Mt sounds like suffering.


You are confusing me. Are you speaking of endtime destruction or reprimands during life?

I am speaking of endtime destruction.



10/5/2016 9:30:31 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

share_n_love
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,859)
Fort Wayne, IN
61, joined Dec. 2012


Quote from freegratis:
Do not fear those who kill the body but are powerless to kill the soul [Body, Life, and Spirit]. Rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gei-Hinnom

If there is no eternal hell/suffering/punishment, it seems more like unsaved should Love God when they learn their only penalty is eternal destruction rather than suffering.

Where is the fear?


YHVH God doesn't want people to come to Him out of [Frightening] fear but out of 'love of Truth'....His Truth...righteousness.

Be sure when you use the word 'fear' that you distinguish whether you mean frightening fear or reverence fear.

Mt 13:40-43,

40. Just as the weeds are collected and burned up in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41. The Son of Man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out of his Kingdom all the things that cause people to sin and all the people who are far from Torah; 42. and they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where people will wail and grind their teeth. 43. Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let him hear!

Commentary:

41. The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom--to which they never really belonged. They usurped their place and name and outward privileges; but "the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners [abide] in the congregation of the righteous" ( Psalms 1:5 ).
all things that offend--all those who have proved a stumbling-block to others
and them which do iniquity--The former class, as the worst, are mentioned first.

42. And shall cast them into a furnace of fire--rather, "the furnace of fire":
there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth--What terrific strength of language--the "casting" or "flinging" expressive of indignation, abhorrence, contempt (compare Psalms 9:17 , Daniel 12:2 ): "the furnace of fire" denoting the fierceness of the torment: the "wailing" signifying the anguish this causes; while the "gnashing of teeth" is a graphic way of expressing the despair in which its remedilessness issues (see Matthew 8:12 )!


Now with the above said, most Messianics believe 'based on Moses' being taken to the mountain to 'see' the land of 'milk and honey' that he was NOT allowed to enter because of his disobedience will be similar to what will happen to those who are 'thrown' into the fire.

That YHVH God will allow them to 'see' His Kingdom [The land of Milk and Honey] and then the screaming and gnashing of the teeth will come when they find out they will NOT be allowed to enter. Indeed a horrific punishment, especially for those Believers who have received His Spirit of Truth and experienced deep guilt over failing God in so something they KNEW was wrong.

But YHVH God allowed Moses to still enter His Kingdom even though he disobeyed because Moses had fully trusted YHVH God and believed all that He said.

Which will liken the Believer who fully trust Yahshua and believed all that 'He said'.



10/6/2016 9:28:08 AM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (34,030)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


"O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, and save us from the fires of Hell, especially those in most of Your mercy."

--a prayer the Blessed Mother taught the children of Fatima, and now part of the rosary

10/6/2016 9:30:30 AM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Where in the Bible do you see the "fires of hell"?

Did you make that part up?

The Catholic church lies and so does ludlow.

10/6/2016 9:34:30 AM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (34,030)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Matthew 5:22, in the Doay Rheims and King James versions of the Bible, have the phrase "hellfire". And that is by no means the only place.

10/6/2016 9:38:02 AM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


CLV Mt 5:22 Yet I am saying to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to the judging. Yet whoever may be saying to his brother, `Raka!' shall be liable to the Sanhedrin. Yet whoever may be saying, `Stupid!' shall be liable to the Gehenna of fire.

There is no "hellfire" in the Bible.

Gehenna is not "hell."

Gehenna is a ravine outside of Jerusalem.

See my thread...

Welcome to sunny...Gehenna
https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-575330.htm

The Catholic church lies and so does ludlow.

10/6/2016 12:29:54 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (34,030)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


One translation says "Gehenna" and another says "hellfire". Different translations say different things. That's one more reason why just reading the Bible is not good enough---we need the Church's teaching authority.

10/6/2016 12:52:46 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  
freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from bigd9832:
CLV Mt 5:22 Yet I am saying to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to the judging. Yet whoever may be saying to his brother, `Raka!' shall be liable to the Sanhedrin. Yet whoever may be saying, `Stupid!' shall be liable to the Gehenna of fire.

There is no "hellfire" in the Bible.

Gehenna is not "hell."

Gehenna is a ravine outside of Jerusalem.

See my thread...

Welcome to sunny...Gehenna
https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-575330.htm

The Catholic church lies and so does ludlow.


The Welcome to sunny...Gehenna thread is closed.

No "outer darkness" in sunny Gehenna?
Matthew 8:12
Matthew 25:30

And what of Luke 16:19-31?

10/6/2016 1:27:50 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,555)
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


2 Timonthy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


This is often quoted by you church indoctrinated book worshipping Christians and it is patently FALSE. God/Jesus does not inspire scripture that makes them out to be mass murderous of people for all sorts of ridiculous reasons. To believe God/Jesus orders man to kill his brothers and sisters for all the following reasons is tantamount to a total rejection of the true loving and caring nature of God that Jesus so divinely revealed.

Such a false and murderous belief makes God/Jesus out to be as murderous as those who rejected and killed Him and it is blasphemous and inexcusable that you so-called "Christians" still believe this about God/Jesus simply because of church doctrine about the book they compiled. Are you all so morally and spiritually insane that you don't know it is evil wickedness to kill people for these reasons? Apparently you are and thus you will remain until you un-subordinate your mind to a book. Until then you are morally confused and spiritually lost in the wilderness which is what Satan desires of you.

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents (Proverbs 20:20 NAB, Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-18 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB, Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT, Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Kill Sons of Sinners (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)



[Edited 10/6/2016 1:29:58 PM ]

10/6/2016 2:08:31 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (34,030)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


KB, if you believe in a good and caring God, why do you believe in eugenics? If it is wrong to stone an adulterer, why is it permissible to gas a handicapped child?

10/6/2016 2:12:43 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,555)
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


You are a CORRUPT LIAR serving Satan, Ludlow, and this is just your corrupt way of spewing out lies to evade the truth of my post. You are so corrupt you can't see by making such a post to evade my post you prove how deceitful you truly are.

10/6/2016 2:28:37 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,892)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
KB, if you believe in a good and caring God, why do you believe in eugenics? If it is wrong to stone an adulterer, why is it permissible to gas a handicapped child?


Neither I nor kb nor The Urantia Book have anything to do with "gassing a handicapped child."

You are a very ignorant evil man of gigantic proportions. Very evil.

Even the pope talks about you, "dirtying the other with calumny, with disinformation, and doing evil."

"We Catholics have some — and not some, many — who believe they possess the absolute truth and go ahead dirtying the other with calumny, with disinformation, and doing evil. They do evil. I say this because it is my Church." [The pope] further added that "fundamentalism is more idolatry than actual religion, warning that 'ideas and false certainties' can take the place of faith, love, and God." -pope Francis

10/6/2016 2:54:27 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  
freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011


Regarding the topic "I and the Father, We are one":

Who can forgive sins?
David committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband murdered, yet David says, "Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight; so you are right in your verdict and justified when you judge."
Psalm 51:4

I can forgive my enemy's sin against me, but I don't think I can forgive your enemy's sin against you.

Jesus said He forgave sins. Luke 7:48, Matthew 9:1-8

Why did Jesus accept worship and not rebuke Thomas?
Luke 7:48

Even angels do not accept worship.
Revelations 19:10, 22:9

10/6/2016 3:09:52 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from freegratis:
The Welcome to sunny...Gehenna thread is closed.

No "outer darkness" in sunny Gehenna?
Matthew 8:12
Matthew 25:30

And what of Luke 16:19-31?


Of course it's closed. I started that in 2010. You are the new guy here, not me.

But the information in it is still valid.

Gehenna is not used as "hell."

Matthew 8:12 & 25:30 are not about 'gehenna.' And the word 'gehenna' is not used in Luke 16:19-31.

You are taking some unrelated Scripture and trying to tie them into your own beliefs.

The fact is that there is no Ancient term for "hell." None. Nada. Zip.

And 'gehenna' (the valley of Hinnom) is not "hell."

10/6/2016 3:10:10 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (34,030)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Quote from followjesusonly:
Neither I nor kb nor The Urantia Book have anything to do with "gassing a handicapped child."

You are a very ignorant evil man of gigantic proportions. Very evil.

Even the pope talks about you, "dirtying the other with calumny, with disinformation, and doing evil."

"We Catholics have some — and not some, many — who believe they possess the absolute truth and go ahead dirtying the other with calumny, with disinformation, and doing evil. They do evil. I say this because it is my Church." [The pope] further added that "fundamentalism is more idolatry than actual religion, warning that 'ideas and false certainties' can take the place of faith, love, and God." -pope Francis


The Urantia Book espouses eugenics, which is at the core of the Nazi philosophy. FJO, why don't you and KB throw your Urantia Books away and cind something more Christian to believe in?

10/6/2016 3:17:48 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (13,555)
Jacksonville, FL
76, joined Apr. 2011


You are a CORRUPT LIAR serving Satan, Ludlow, and this is just your corrupt way of spewing out lies to evade the truth of my post. You are so corrupt you can't see by making such a post to evade my post you prove how deceitful you truly are.

10/6/2016 3:18:16 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


The Catholic church has aligned itself with the Nazis. Here is the proof...










It shows that the Catholic have always wanted to get rid of the Jews, and have been foiled every time.

God protects the Jews from the Catholic church.

The Catholic church lies and so does ludlow.

10/6/2016 4:09:56 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (34,030)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


The Catholic Church loves the Jews and only desires their conversion and salvation. The Church's Founder, Jesus Christ, was a Jew. According to many Catholic prophets, one day the Jews will be convered to Catholicism.

The Church signed agreements with the Nazis to protect Catholic people from persecution. This does not mean the Church approved of Nazism. Catholic churches hid Jees from the Nazis all over Europe, including in the Vatican itself.

10/6/2016 4:42:53 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

prophetic774
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,384)
Winter Haven, FL
66, joined Feb. 2011


WHAT ARE THE 8 PASSAGES IN GOD'S WORD WHICH SHOW THE EXACT TIME PERIOD OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION IMMEDIATELY BEFORE THE 2ND COMING OF JESUS??

There are 8 time periods mentioned in God's Word which show the exact tme period of the Great Tribulation which will end on the Last Day at the Second Coming of Jesus. A 1260-day tine period is mentioned 2 times in Rev 12:6 and Rev 11:3. A 42-month time period is mentioned 2 times in Rev 13:5 and Rev 11:2. A time period of time, times and half a time is mentioned 3 times in Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7 and Rev 12:14. And the last half of the last 7 is implied in Daniel 9:27a.which would be the 8th time period.

By comparing Rev 12:6 and Rev 12:14 we know that 1260 days and time {360 days}, times {720 days} and half a time {180 days} is the exact same period of time since 720 days plus 360 days plus 180 days also add up to exactly 1260 days.

By comparing Rev 13:5 with Daniel 7:25 we know that 42 months and time {12 months}, times {24 months} and half a time {6 months} is the exact same period of time since 12 months plus 24 months plus 6 months also add up to exactly 42 months.

And so 1260 days and 42 30-day months and time {360 days or 12 30-day months} times {720 days or 24 30-day months} and half a time {180 days or 6 30-day months} are the exact same period of time. And so all 7 time periods mentioned are exactly 1260 days which would be the exact time period of the Great Tribulation and the rule of 666 and the time period of the witness of Moses and Elijah during the 1260-day Great Tribulation.

Note: 666 is called the Beast 36 times in Revelation. By comparing Rev 13:5-7 and Daniel 7:25 we can know that 666 will rule for 42 months which is also time, {12 months} times {24 months} and half a time {6 months} in Daniel 7:25.

Which brings us to the 8th and last time period mentioned in Daniel 9:27a which is the last 7 of the 70 7's prophecy mentioned in Daniel 9:24-27.

Daniel 9:24-25: 70 7's {Or 490 years} are decreed for your people to finish traansgression and put an end to sin, to **ATONE FOR WICKEDNESS** {On April 5 AD 33}, to bring in **EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS** {On the Last Day of the 490 years or 70 7's} From the issuing of the decree {By King Cyrus} to rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One comes, there will be 7 7's and 62 7's. {Which is 69 7's or 483 years!}

The Coming and Anointing of the Anointed One took place in AD 29 and is recorded in John 1:29 and Matthew 3:13-17:

John 1:29: The next day John saw Jesus **COMING** toward him and said, "Look, Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!!"

Matthew 3:13-17: Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John....As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on Him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is My Son, whom I love, with Him I am well pleased!"
This Comiing and Anoiting of the Anointed One took place exactly 483 years or 69 7's after the decree of Cyrus to rebuild Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:26: The Anointed one will be cut off {When He **ATONED FOR WICKEDNESS** on April 3-5, AD 33} And the **ATONEMENT FOR WICKEDNESS ** must be in included in the 70 7's which took place about 3 1/2 times in the middle of the Last 7 after His **COMING** which happened after 69 7's. And that completes 69 1/2 7's of the 70 7's prophecy and leaves 3 1/2 times in the future.

Daniel 9:27 tells us about the last 7 of the 70 7's in this amazing prophecy:



Daniel 9:27: He {the Anointed One} will confirm a Covenant with many for one 7. In the *MIDDLE** of the {Last}** 7** {After 3 1/2 times} He will put and **END** to sacrifice and offering {On April3-5, AD33 the Anointed One put an end to all sacrifices for sin. And in the future He will set up an abomination that causes desolation {For 1260 days} until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. {On the Last Day of the 1260 day Great Tribulation as per Rev 19:20 & 2 Thess 2:8 & Daniel 7:26}

Hebrews 10:11-18: Day after day every priest performs his religious duties again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this Priest had offered for all time **ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS**, He sat down at the right hand of God... Because by **ONE SACRIFICE** He has made ***PERFECT FOREVER*** those who are being made holy. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: "This is the **COVENANT** I will make with them after that time says the Lord. I will put My laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." The he adds" Their sins and lawless acts I will remember **NO MORE**." And when these have been forgiven , there is **NO LONGER ANY SACRIFICE FOR SIN**!!

What is the meaning of Daniel 9:27a: "He {The Anointed One} will confirm a Covenant with many for one 7."??

Jesus confirmed in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 and Revelation chapters 6-19 that there would be a 42-month or 1260-day Great Tribulation; {which is also 3 1/2 times} immediatedly before His 2nd Coming; for Jesus said in Revelation 22:16: "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony **FOR THE CHURCHES!"

And Jesus gave us a New Covenant for 1220 days before His Resurrection which was from December 2nd, AD 29 to April 5th, AD 33; and in the 40 days after His Resurrection until His Ascension into heaven which would be at total of 1260 days or 42 30-day months or time times and half a time which is also 3 1/2 times.

Acts 1:3: He appeared to them over a period of 40 days and spoke about the kingdom of God.

3 1/2 times plus 3 1/2 times equals exactly 7 times and so the Anointed One did confirm a Covenant with many for 7 times which is the last 7 of the 70 7's Prophecy.

Daniel 7:25-27: He will speak against the Most High and oppress His saints...The saints will be handed over to him for time, times and 1/2 a time {Which is 42 months or 1260 days} But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. {as per Rev 19:20 & 2 Thess 2:8} Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be and **EVERLASTING** Kingdom!! (And Daniel 9:24 confirms that "70 7's are decreed to bring **EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS!!

Daniel 12:1-3,7b: There will be a time of distress such as not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the Book--will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to **EVERLASTING** life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many ro righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever... It will be for time, times and half a time { Which is also 42 months or 1260 days}**ALL** these things will be **COMPLETED**!!

Revelation 13:5-8: The beast will be given to exercise his authority for 42 {30-day) months {Or 1260 days}.. He will be given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he will be given authority over **EVERY** tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the Book of Life belonging to the LAMB who was slain.

10/6/2016 5:00:08 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

prophetic774
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,384)
Winter Haven, FL
66, joined Feb. 2011


WILL THE GREAT TRIBULATION LAST 7 YEARS OF 1260 DAYS BEFORE THE 2ND COMING OF JESUS {CONTINUED}

2 Thessalonians 2:8: Then the lawless one will be revealed.[for 42 monThs] whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His Coming.

Daniel 9:24 confirms that 70 7's have been decreed... to **ATONE FOR WICKED NESS** and Daniel 9:25 confirms that 69 7's of the 70 7's were totally completed at the Coming of the Anointed One in AD 29; and Daniel 9:27a confirms that half of the last 7 or 3 1/2 times was totally completed when the Anointed One ""ATONED FOR WICKEDNESS** and put an **END TO ALL SACRIFICES FOR SIN** in the middle of the Last 7, which was about 3 1/2 times **AFTER** His Coming and Anointing!!

It is interesting to note that 3 1/2 times, which is also 42 months or 1260 days; is the only end-time period mentioned in the book of Revelation or the NT. If there was supposed to be a 7 year or 7 time end-time period immediately before the 2nd Coming of Jesus; it would have certainly been mentioned in Revelation or the NT!!

There are many who wrongly interpret Daniel 9:27a and believe that there will be a 7 year time period immediately before the 2nd Coming of Jesus and that 666 will put an end to all animal sacrifices in a rebuilt Jerusalem Temple in the middle of the last 7 instead of Jesus putting an end to all sacrifices in the middle of the last 7 with His atoning sacrifice as per Daniel 9:27a.

WILL THE RESURRECTION OF GOD'S NT SAINTS COME BEFORE OR ON THE LAST DAY OF THE 1260- DAY GREAT TRIBULATION??

And then there are many who wrongly believe that there will be a pre-trib secret resurrection of the NT saints at the 2nd coming of Jesus just before the beginning of a 7 year Tribulation; and then another resurrection of the OT saints and Tribulation saints on the Last Day of a 7 year Tribulation at a 3rd coming of Jesus.

Matthew 24:3,9-13,29,30: The disciples asked Jesus, "What will be the sign of Your Coming and the End of the age? Jesus answered...Then you will be handled over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by **ALL NATIONS** because of Me. At that time many will turn away from the fairh and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved... **IMMEDIATELY AFTER** the distress of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time the Son of Man will**APPEAR** in the sky, and all the nations will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the 4 winds, from one end of the heavens to the other!" {Luke 21:28 adds "When these things begin to take place stand up and lift up your hands, because your redemption is drawing near!!"}

2 Thess 1:1,6-10: ‘To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians…God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* from heaven in blazing fire…. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with **EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION** and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!”

The above passage absolutely disproves the pre-trib fairy tale since all of the lost will be resurrected on the same day all the NT saints are resurrected!!

Colossians 1:2; 3:4: To the holy and faithful brothers in Christ.... When Christ, who is your life, **APPEARS**, then you will also **APPEAR** with Him in glory!

Titus 2:13: **WE** wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the glorious **APPEARING** of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ!!

10/7/2016 12:05:14 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

prophetic774
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,384)
Winter Haven, FL
66, joined Feb. 2011


JESUS SAID TO HIS FATHER, "SANCTIFY THEM BY THE TRUTH, YOUR WORD IS TRUTH!!" John 17:17

Those who classify themselves as Christians can be divided into 2 broad groups: those who have chosen to allow the Bible to be their final authority and those who have chosen to allow men to be their final authority. For sake of simplicity, I shall refer to the first group as "Bible believing Christians." The latter group has always been best represented by Roman Catholicism {Including Louie and Lud}, by far its largest, most powerful, and most influential component. The Roman Catholic hierarchy has always boldly stated that it is not dependent upon Scripture alone, but also accepts tradition as another pillar of truth -- and where a conflict exists, tradition receives the greater acceptance. Being its own arbiter of what is to be accepted as truth, it accepts no authority as being higher than itself. This explains why the Catholic belief system has been constantly evolving over the centuries.

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on *EARTH has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 4:11-16: It was He {Jesus} who gives some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.... Speaking the Truth in **LOVE**, we will in all things grow up into Him, who is the Head, that is Christ. From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament grows and builds itself up in **LOVE**, as each part does its work!

2 Timothy 3:16; 4:2: All Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God my be thoroughly equipped for every good work...**PREACH THE WORD**; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction.

Acts 17:11: Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and EXAMINED the SCRIPTURES *EVERY DAY*!!

James 1:22: Do not merely listen to the Word, and so deceive yourselves. **DO WHAT IT SAYS*...But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, *BUT DOING IT*--he will be blessed in what he does!!

READ GOD'S WORD DAILY AND THEN DO WHAT IT SAYS!!

Psalm 119 has 176 verses praising the Word of God. The Old Testament had 613 laws and the New Covenant of Jesus and His love has about 400 commands of LOVE which Psalm 119 also applies to. Some of my favorite verses is Psalm 119 are:

119:105: Your Word is a Lamp to my feet and a Light for my path.

119:97: Oh how I love your law, I meditate on it all day long.

119:148: My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I meditate on your promises.

119:164: Seven times a day I praise you for your righteous laws.

119:169: Give me understanding according to your Word.

119:2: Blessed are those who keep His statues and seek Him with all your heart.

119:11: I have hidden your Word in my heart that I might not sin against You.


Deuteronomy 4:2: God says, "Do not *ADD* to what I command you and do not *SUBTRACT* from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you!!"

Deuteronomy 18:17-19: The Lord says, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. If anyone does not listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My Name, I Myself will call Him to account."

John 14:23-25: Jesus says, "If anyone *LOVES* Me, He will obey My teaching. My Father will *LOVE* Him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me will not obey My teaching. These words you hear are not My own, they belong to the Father who sent Me."

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the words of this prophecy of this Book: If anyone *ADDS* {Like Louie, TNT and popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY**{Like Louie, TNT and popes} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

Louie teaches that Roman Catholic prophets receive **NEW PROPHESIES** after the last book of the NT was written in AD 96 which **ADD** to the prophecies in God's Word which is an unpardonable sin according to Revelation 22:18 above. Louie posted many times about one of these Satanic **NEW PROPHECIES** which never took place in September 2014.

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been born again.. through the Living and Enduring Word of God. All men {Like Louie and popes} are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the Word that was preached to you.




10/7/2016 12:24:53 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,268)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010




10/7/2016 1:30:30 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from ludlowlowell... The Catholic Church loves the Jews and only desires their conversion and salvation. The Church's Founder, Jesus Christ, was a Jew. According to many Catholic prophets, one day the Jews will be convered to Catholicism.

The Church signed agreements with the Nazis to protect Catholic people from persecution. This does not mean the Church approved of Nazism. Catholic churches hid Jees from the Nazis all over Europe, including in the Vatican itself.
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More lies from the Catholics.

The Catholic church tried to get rid of the Jews in Europe during the Catholic Inquisitions. The OT is an embarrassment to the Catholic church.

The Catholic church approved of Nazism and supported their efforts.

Also, ludlow has never read the Urantai book and knows nothing about it.

The Catholic church lies and do does ludlow.

10/7/2016 3:25:19 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  
freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011


Regarding the topic "I and the Father, We are one":

Who can forgive sins?
David committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband murdered, yet David says, "Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight; so you are right in your verdict and justified when you judge."
Psalm 51:4

I can forgive my enemy's sin against me, but I don't think I can forgive your enemy's sin against you.

Jesus said He forgave sins. Luke 7:48, Matthew 9:1-8

Why did Jesus accept worship and not rebuke Thomas?
Luke 7:48

Even angels do not accept worship.
Revelations 19:10, 22:9

10/7/2016 5:13:51 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


ludlow thinks the Catholic priests can forgive sins.

10/7/2016 5:21:57 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

share_n_love
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,859)
Fort Wayne, IN
61, joined Dec. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
The Catholic Church loves the Jews and only desires their conversion and salvation. The Church's Founder, Jesus Christ, was a Jew. According to many Catholic prophets, one day the Jews will be convered to Catholicism.

The Church signed agreements with the Nazis to protect Catholic people from persecution. This does not mean the Church approved of Nazism. Catholic churches hid Jees from the Nazis all over Europe, including in the Vatican itself.


You better do actual research instead of taking your church's answer for their behavior with the Nazi's in WW2.



10/7/2016 5:23:31 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


ludlow...

Don't you think you might be more comfortable at a Catholic board?

Alot of Protestants here. Don't you think?

The Catholic church lies and so does ludlow perv.

10/7/2016 5:26:30 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,892)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012


Quote from share_n_love:
You better do actual research instead of taking your church's answer for their behavior with the Nazi's in WW2.



Ludlow does not take or do "research" from any non-cathlick sources.

"The Church teaches it. That ought to be good enough." -Ludlow

10/7/2016 5:29:49 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

share_n_love
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,859)
Fort Wayne, IN
61, joined Dec. 2012


Quote from followjesusonly:
Ludlow does not take or do "research" from any non-cathlick sources.

"The Church teaches it. That ought to be good enough." -Ludlow


Yes, and unfortunately this is why lud is lost and confused. He is afraid to do his own studies because if he does it would convict his heart and he would realize he has wasted so many years believing lies...as has others.



10/7/2016 11:58:41 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Maybe ludlow is too busy researching the porn sites?

The Catholic church lies and so does ludlow the perv.

10/9/2016 6:48:27 AM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from freegratis... Did I say 3 or trinity? You concluded that I meant a trinity, yet I did not say 3 or trinity.

Do you accept that the word "trinity" does not need to appear in the bible for there to be a trinity, if a trinity does exist?
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Actually, I did not. This is from an older post I made several years ago. That was long before you were here.

The word "trinity" not appearing in the Bible is one of a list of reasons why I know there is no "trinity." I would never use that as a reason by itself. It's not a strong enough argument alone.


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Quote from freegratis... John 8:58-59 Who dares call Himself The I AM? And why attempt to stone Him if it was not a significant claim?
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CLV Jn 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Verily, verily, I am saying to you, Ere Abraham came into being, I am."

This verse does not say Jesus is God. It makes a reference to Him as Son of God being older than Abraham.

The Word was in the beginning with God, long before Abraham was born. All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being, including Abraham himself. Such was His glory before He became flesh. Then no human could see Him and live (Exo 33:20). It was not until "the last of these days" that God spoke in His Son (Hebrews 12), that is, after He had emptied Himself to be in the likeness of humanity (Phil 2:7). In those days He used messengers of inferior rank in communicating with mankind. Two of these visited Abraham just before Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. The Jews could not understand how One so glorious could condescend to take human form.
A. E. Knoch


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Quote from freegratis... http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/5-7.htm 1 John 5:7 (CLV did not confirm KJV/NKJV, so had to go interlinear)
The Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three one are.
**********************************************************************************
CLV 1Jn 5:7 seeing that three there are that are testifying,
8 the spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are for the one thing.


I John 5:7 does not say, "The Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three one are"




**********************************************************************************
Quote from freegratis... This just stipulates that many can be one.
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It stipulates that Jesus and God are one, and that anyone else can be one with them as well.

It shows that their relationship is not exclusive. And in the end, All will be in all.


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Quote from freegratis... CLV Jn 10:33 The Jews answered Him, "For an ideal act we are not stoning you, but for blasphemy, and that you, being a man, are making yourself God."
34. Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, that `I say you are gods'?
35. If He said those were gods, to whom the word of God came (and the scripture can not be annulled)

Your #4 argument is against your #1 argument.
**********************************************************************************
This was some Jew's assessment of what Jesus said. Jesus didn't called Himself God. Argument #1 still stands.

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Quote from freegratis... Elsewhere it was argued to teach slowly so that the hearer would not be put off -- something about eating formerly unclean foods. Let's start with more than one (as in 2) is called one in the bible.
Did I say anything about 3 or trinity?
I have not said 3 or trinity yet you introduced that term from what I wrote. Just as the scriptures imply a trinity.
**********************************************************************************
I have no idea what you mean when you say "teach slowly."

In the Bible 2 is called 2, not 1.

In Ancient Hebrew, all plural is assumed to be 2 unless otherwise stipulated. If I said, "bring in the prisoners," that would mean bring in two prisoners. If I said, bring in the 8 prisoners," That would mean 8.

As I said before, I wrote this long before you came to DH. It is about a "trinity."

When you are saying "The Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three one are" you are implying a "trinity." The Scriptures doesn't say that.


**********************************************************************************
Quote from freegratis... They also don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah. The Jews are partially blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Romans 11 (verses 12 through 25 and more) 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
This will make them envious and there will be a great revival after the bride is raptured. Unfortunately it will be during great tribulation. But a multitude which no one can number will come out of the tribulation. Revelations 7
**********************************************************************************
This really doesn't relate to what I am saying about a "trinity." My point was that the Orthodox Jews did not have a "trinity" when Jesus was here, and they do not have one today.


**********************************************************************************
Quote from freegratis... Do mere "gods" as we will be one in God and "ye are gods" forgive sins?
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There is a difference between God and gods.


**********************************************************************************
Quote from freegratis... So is rapture. But "caught up" is there. 1 Thessalonians 4:17. I hear the Latin is rapturo where we get the word rapture in English
**********************************************************************************
The "rapture" is a Christian myth. There is no "rapture" in the Scriptures. It is an interpretation only.

Sorry it took so long for my response.

10/9/2016 6:56:42 AM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from freegratis... You posted this already. You are defining Gehenna as a garbage dump.

I asked, "Why should I fear him which is able to destroy in a garbage dump? I fiery garbage dump would just kill the body."
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'gehenna' is NOT a symbol for "hell" as we use it today.

CLV Mt 10:28 "And do not fear from those who are killing the body, yet are not able to kill the soul. Yet be fearing Him, rather, Who is able to destroy the soul as well as the body in Gehenna.

Do you know what the soul is, as defined in the Scriptures?

What are the three main aspects of the "soul"?

10/9/2016 1:08:04 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

prophetic774
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,384)
Winter Haven, FL
66, joined Feb. 2011


Quote from ludlowlowell:

To be born again is to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The soul goes into the state of grace, the effects of original sin are washed away, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit occurs. This is why infants should be baptized as soon as possible after birth.

BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY???

John 3:3: Jesus says, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the Kingdom of God unless he is **BORN AGAIN**!!"

John 1:12,13: To all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision, or a husband's will, but **BORN OF GOD**!

QUESTION: Do infants receive Jesus and believe in His name???

Romans 19:8-10: The Word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the **WORD OF FAITH** we are proclaiming: That if you **CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH, "Jesus is Lord," and be believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your **MOUTH** that you **CONFESS** and are saved!!

QUESTION: Do infants believe in their hearts and confess Jesus with their mouths???

I John 5:3,4: Everyone who is **BORN OF GOD** overcomes the world. This is the victory that overcomes the world, **EVEN OUR FAITH**.

QUESTION: Do infants overcome the world with their **FAITH**???

John 6:37,39,44, 65: Jesus says, "All that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away!... For My Father's will is that everyone who **LOOKS TO THE SON AND BELIEVES IN HIM** shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the Last Day!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father **DRAWS** him. and I will raise him up at the Last Day!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED** him!!"

QUESTION: Do infants look to the Son and believe in Him???

I Peter 1:22-25: Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the Truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply from the heart. For you have be **BORN AGAIN**, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring **WORD OF GOD**. For, all men {Including popes} are like grass, all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the Word that was preached to you!!

QUESTION: Are infants **BORN AGAIN** through the living and enduring **WORD OF GOD** or by some Roman Catholic Priest sprinkling water on him???



10/9/2016 4:30:10 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


_____Strongs_____

H7018 Qeynan kay-nawn'
from the same as H7064;

fixed; Kenan, an antediluvian.


10/9/2016 6:17:13 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (34,030)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


I do plenty of research, and did plenty before I converted.

"To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."

--Cardinal John Henry Newman

10/9/2016 6:27:51 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from ludlow... [/iI and the Father, We are one

I do plenty of research, and did plenty before I converted.

"To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."

--Cardinal John Henry Newman
*******************************************************************************
ludlow idea of research is looking it up on Wiki.

The Catholic church lies and so does lud perv.

10/9/2016 6:43:13 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,892)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I do plenty of research, and did plenty before I converted.

"To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."

--Cardinal John Henry Newman


Cardinal Newman's sayings are just his opinions, like Augustine's, like any of us. He was probably gay anyway.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/ProgressivistDoc/A_107_NewmanHomo.html

Cardinal Newman Recognized as a Homosexual

In reaction to the request of Catholic Prelates to civil authorities for permission to transfer the body of Cardinal John Henry Newman from the city of Rednal, England, to a place in Birmingham Oratory church, recent breaking news revealed that Cardinal Newman was an alleged homosexual. He was buried in Rednal alongside his lover Ambrose St. John at his express will. In its August 22, 2008 issue, National Catholic Reporter, another credible source, confirms that information.

Since Benedict XVI has promised to beatify Newman very soon, Catholics should be prepared to offer public devotion to an alleged homosexual, presented to them as a saint, that is, a man who is in Heaven and whose life was above all reproach, one who should be imitated by all.

10/9/2016 9:23:20 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (34,030)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


Cardinal Newman had a very close friend in Ambrose St. John. There is no evidence that they were homosexual lovers.

FJO, do you have any make friends? That doesn't mean you and they are having sex, does it?

10/9/2016 11:12:09 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,892)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012


No make friends. No, I don't have any make friends.

10/9/2016 11:37:49 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from ludlowlowell... Cardinal Newman had a very close friend in Ambrose St. John. There is no evidence that they were homosexual lovers.

FJO, do you have any make friends? That doesn't mean you and they are having sex, does it?
************************************************************************************
ludlow really is a pervert!

He sure is interested in everyone's sex life. But just the men here.

hmmmmmmm...

The Catholic church lies and so does lud the perv.

10/10/2016 9:50:45 AM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

prophetic774
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,384)
Winter Haven, FL
66, joined Feb. 2011


WHO IS THE WOMAN IN REVELATION 12 AND WHO ARE HER OFFSPRING??

Galatians 4:22,23,28,31: “Abraham had 2 sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the Free Woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a "PROMISE"!....You brother, like Isaac {Sarah's son}, are children of "PROMISE"....The slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the Free Woman's son. Therefore, brothers, **WE** are not children of the slave woman {Hagar} but of the Free "WOMAN"{Sarah}!!”

According to Galatians 3:16 Jesus is also the offspring of Abraham and Sarah !! Galatians 3:29: “If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

Revelation 12:1,5,17: A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of 12 stars on her head.........She gave birth to a son, a male child {Jesus}, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her Child was snatched up to God {The Father} and to His throne....The woman's offspring are those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus!”

Just before the coming of 666 and the 1260-day or 42-month Great Tribulation in Revelation 13:1 we read in Rev 12:17; 13:1,5,7: Then the dragon {Satan} was enraged at the woman {Sarah} and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--THOSE WHO OBEY GOD'S COMMANDMENTS AND HOLD TO THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS!!" And the dragon {Satan} stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw Beast {666} coming out of the Sea {Or Abyss or Hell as per Rev 11:7 & 17:8 & Luke 8:31}.....The Beast will exercise his authority for 42 months..... He will be given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he will be given authority over **EVERY** tribe, people, language and nation.

And so according to Rev 12:6,14 Satan will attack some of God's saints but they will be protected in God's sanctuary in the wilderness for 1260 days.

Then in Rev 12:17 Satan will attack the rest of God's saints “WHO OBEY GOD'S COMMANDMENTS AND HOLD TO THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS” **just before** the coming of 666 and the beginning of the 1260-day or 42-month Great Tribulation as shown in Revelation 13:1-5.

And so Revelation 12 also shows that the pre-trib rapture of God's courageous saints at the beginning of the Great Tribulation is a ridiculous fairy tale. Since some of God's saints will be protected in the wilds for 1260 days and Satan will make war with the rest of God's saints WHO OBEY GOD'S COMMANDMENTS AND HOLD TO THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS JUST **BEFORE** THE COMING OF 666!!

Revelation 12:11: "They {The Tribulation Martyrs} overcame him {Satan} by the blood of the Lamb and by the Word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death!"

Matthew 24:8-13: The disciples asked Jesus, "What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" Jesus replied, "Then (During the 42 month Great Tribulation} you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by **ALL NATIONS** because of Me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear {Like Louie & TNT} and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end {Of the 42 month Great Tribulation} will be saved!!"



10/10/2016 10:41:50 AM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  
freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from bigd9832:

**********************************************************************************
Quote from freegratis... http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/5-7.htm 1 John 5:7 (CLV did not confirm KJV/NKJV, so had to go interlinear)
The Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three one are.
**********************************************************************************
CLV 1Jn 5:7 seeing that three there are that are testifying,
8 the spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are for the one thing.


I John 5:7 does not say, "The Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three one are"




You are confused. 1 John 5:7 is not 1 John 5:8.

1 John 5:7 says what 1 John 5:7 says
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/5-7.htm
For three there are bearing testimony in heaven The Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three one are

1 John 5:8 says what 1 John 5:8 says
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/5-8.htm
NKJV And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

10/10/2016 10:53:22 AM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  
freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from bigd9832:

**********************************************************************************
Quote from freegratis... So is rapture. But "caught up" is there. 1 Thessalonians 4:17. I hear the Latin is rapturo where we get the word rapture in English
**********************************************************************************
The "rapture" is a Christian myth. There is no "rapture" in the Scriptures. It is an interpretation only.

Sorry it took so long for my response.


"Caught up" or "caught away in the clouds" a kind of up direction is not in the bible?

You are arguing that there is no "Jesus" in the Scriptures -- only Yehoshua.

One is Latin or Greek, the other is English.
One is Hebrew or Greek, the other is English.

10/10/2016 12:14:04 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from freegratis... "Caught up" or "caught away in the clouds" a kind of up direction is not in the bible?

You are arguing that there is no "Jesus" in the Scriptures -- only Yehoshua.

One is Latin or Greek, the other is English.
One is Hebrew or Greek, the other is English.
********************************************************************************
Where did you get the idea that there is no Jesus? I never said that. Like ludlow, you are trying to put words in my keyboard.

I will say this again. The OLDEST and most complete NT manuscripts are Ancient Koine Greek. They are as follows...

Codex Vaticanus (a & b)
Codex Alexandrinius
Codex Sinaiticus

This means that all other "modern" manuscripts are copied from these 4 in some form.

CLV 1Th 4:17 Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord.

_____Strong's_____

G726 harpazo har-pad'-zo
from a derivative of G138;

to seize (in various applications).


No upward motion detected.

10/10/2016 12:41:42 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  
freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from bigd9832:

CLV 1Th 4:17 Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord.

_____Strong's_____

G726 harpazo har-pad'-zo
from a derivative of G138;

to seize (in various applications).


No upward motion detected.


You will have to argue that these are mountain dwellers, so the clouds are below them, or concede.


Did you find "Jesus" in those original texts? Neither was "rapture" nor "trinity".

10/10/2016 1:02:03 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


There is no argument. That's because there is no "trinity" nor "rapture" in the Bible.





The Ancient word for Jesus (Christ) in the Ancient Greek text.

Now, can you show me the ancient terms for "trinity" and "rapture"?

10/10/2016 9:41:52 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from freegratis... You are confused. 1 John 5:7 is not 1 John 5:8.
******************************************************************************
Oh yes. forgive me. I made a mistake. I gave you credit for having some brains. I thought you might look it up in the CLV.

The sad fact is, there is no Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in these three verses...


CLV 1Jn 5:6 This is He Who is coming through water and blood and spirit--Jesus Christ--not in the water only, but in the water and in the blood. And the spirit it is which is testifying, for the spirit is the truth,
7 seeing that three there are that are testifying,
8 the spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are for the one thing.


It reads blood, water, and spirit.

It is a remarkable fact that the word testify is used concerning the Lord's baptism in water (Jn 1:34), and concerning His crucifixion (Jn 19:35), and here again of the spirit (:6). This is confirmed by the statement of the seventh verse. Three are testifying, the spirit, and the water and the blood. First there was His baptism in water accompanied by the testimony of John the Baptist as well as the descending dove and the voice from heaven, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved in Whom I delight" (Mt 3:17). At His crucifixion one of the soldiers slashes His side with a lance head, and immediately blood and water came out (Jn 19:34). After His glorification, the spirit which He poured forth testified to His exaltation. So that we have testimony to His anointing, to His death, and to His exaltation. These three unite to prove that Jesus is the Son of God. This threefold testimony concerning God's Son is stronger than any mere human evidence. It was given at the very commencement of His ministry, and again at its close. Nothing in between these two points contradicts this testimony, but much that He did and said confirmed it. Only the Son of God could deal with the demons and eject them. He alone could command the elements. The quaking earth at His crucifixion convinced the centurion, who exclaimed "Truly this was God's Son!" (Mt 27:54) .
A. E. Knoch

It is about their testimony, not the nature of God. If Moe, Larry, and Curly saw a motorcycle accident, and each one gave a testimony for the Police Report, and the three testimonies all agreed, then they could be said to agree as one. that does not mean they are one.

Greek Text: Nestle 1904; Variants: {TR} ?RP? (WH) [NA] ‹SBL›

Again, this tells me that you are using a Modern Greek Manuscript, not an Ancient one.

Many of these were custom made to fit the Catholic church's doctrines.

These are facts, buddy. Don't shoot the messenger.

10/10/2016 11:10:18 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

prophetic774
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,384)
Winter Haven, FL
66, joined Feb. 2011


**ARE YOU A MEMBER OF THE KJV ONLY CULT**??

Actually the OT was inspired by God in Hebrew and not in 16th Century English and the NT was inspired by God in Koine Greek and not in 16th Century English. In fact not even one word of God's Word was inspired in English.

Now Jesus has commanded us to make disciples of **ALL NATIONS** In Matthew 28:18-20. And in Matthew 24:13 Jesus says, "This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to **ALL NATIONS, and then the end will come!"

And in Revelation 5:9 we read: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from **EVERY** tribe and **LANGUAGE** and people and nation!"

So far devoted Christian translators have obeyed God's commands and have translated God's Word into over 2,000 different languages; which has resulted in people being saved in over 2,000 languages by devoted Christian missionaries who also learned these languages. Only **ONE** of these 2,000 languages is English and only people who read English can understand the King James version of the Bible written in archaic 16th Century English. So according to the KJV only cult you would have to learn English in order to be saved by the KJV Bible which is only in English????

And so according to those who believe in the King James only cult no one can be saved unless they are saved through the KJV Bible in English and all the other 2,000 translations of the inspired Greek and Hebrew in 2,000 different languages are of Satan and saved no one???? And all translations written before the 1611 KJV version except for the original inspired Greek and Hebrew manuscripts saved no one and were of Satan.?????

It is interesting to note that all 47 translators of the KJV version were members of the Church of England or the Episcopal Church. The Church of England was the most liberal church in 1611 and at present and followed many of the Roman Catholic beliefs except for the Pope and Mary. Only about 20% of the present theologians in the Episcopal Church believe in the inspiration of the Bible or even the Divinity of Jesus Christ our Savior. Whereas the translators of the NIV version were all from very conservative churches such as the Baptist, and Orthodox Presbyterian and Christian Reformed churches.

In 1546 the Roman Catholic Church added the 7 Satanic books called the Apocrypha to their Bible. In the original KJV version in 1611 these evil 7 books were also **INCLUDED** and there were even cross references to the Apocrypha through out the 1611 KJV version??? The Apocrypha was not eliminated from the KJV version until AD 1725.

The liberal Church of England persecuted the conservative believers in God's Word such as the Calvinists, Lutherans, Anabaptists and Puritans which resulted in many true believers fleeing to America.

The original 1611 King James version also had 2 full pages of praise for King James who assembled them; even though King James was a lifelong homosexual.

I Peter 1:22-25: Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the Truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply from the heart. For you have be **BORN AGAIN**, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring **WORD OF GOD**{In over 2,000 LANGUAGES!!}. For, all men are like grass, all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the Word that was preached to you!!




10/11/2016 11:54:14 AM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  
freegratis
Irving, TX
50, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from bigd9832:
There is no argument. That's because there is no "trinity" nor "rapture" in the Bible.





The Ancient word for Jesus (Christ) in the Ancient Greek text.

Now, can you show me the ancient terms for "trinity" and "rapture"?


Jesus starts with an English J. Your ancient Greek is actually in Greek and does not start with a J.

Just as you justify "The Ancient word for Jesus (Christ) in the Ancient Greek text", Strong's 726 harpázo is rapturo in Latin, where we get the term rapture for meaning to seize, catch up, snatch away. This happens in the clouds, which is an upward direction, unless you are a mountain dweller and there are clouds below you when Jesus comes for His bride.

My copy of Old Syriac is claimed to have 1 John 5:7 intact. Can you smugly check your copy in your back pocket, since you've been in this forum way way way before me?

10/11/2016 12:51:16 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

share_n_love
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,859)
Fort Wayne, IN
61, joined Dec. 2012


1John 5:7 was a marginal verse 'added' by men after the 16th century.



1. Some English versions have a shorter rendition of 1 John 5:7 and 8 than the KJV quoted above. The King James Version has words that support the Trinity that most modern versions do not have. How can this be? The reason that there are different translations of this verse is that some Greek texts contain an addition that was not original, and that addition was placed into some English versions, such as the KJV (the words added to some Greek texts are underlined in the quotation above). The note in the NIV Study Bible, which is well known for its ardent belief in the Trinity, says, “The addition is not found in any Greek manuscript or NT translation prior to the 16th century.”

Most modern versions are translated from Greek texts without the addition. We will quote the NIV: “For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.” We agree with the textual scholars and conclude from the evidence of the Greek texts that the statement that the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are “one” was added to the Word of God by men, and thus has no weight of truth.

There are many Trinitarian scholars who freely admit that the Greek text from which the KJV is translated was adjusted in this verse to support the Trinity. The Greek scholar A. T. Robertson, author of the unparalleled work, A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in Light of Historical Research, and the multi-volumed Word Pictures in the New Testament, writes:

At this point [1 John 5:7] the Latin Vulgate gives the words in the Textus Receptus, found in no Greek MS. save two late cursives (162 in the Vatican Library of the fifteenth century, [No.] 34 of the sixteenth century in Trinity College, Dublin). Jerome did not have it. Erasmus did not have it in his first edition, but rashly offered to insert it if a single Greek MS. had it, and 34 was produced with the insertion, as if made to order. Some Latin scribe caught up Cyprian’s exegesis and wrote it on the margin of his text, and so it got into the Vulgate and finally into the Textus Receptus by the stupidity of Erasmus.”



10/11/2016 12:52:52 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

share_n_love
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,859)
Fort Wayne, IN
61, joined Dec. 2012


'A Rapture' is not biblical....

10/11/2016 1:08:29 PM I and the Father, We are one | Page 3  

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,545)
Chicago, IL
64, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from freegratis... Jesus starts with an English J. Your ancient Greek is actually in Greek and does not start with a J.
*******************************************************************************
Now don't be stupid.

There is no "J" in Ancient Koine Greek.


*******************************************************************************
Quote from freegratis... Just as you justify "The Ancient word for Jesus (Christ) in the Ancient Greek text", Strong's 726 harpázo is rapturo in Latin, where we get the term rapture for meaning to seize, catch up, snatch away. This happens in the clouds, which is an upward direction, unless you are a mountain dweller and there are clouds below you when Jesus comes for His bride.
*******************************************************************************
_____Strong's_____

G726 harpazo har-pad'-zo
from a derivative of G138;

to seize (in various applications).


I have no idea where you are getting this. But it isn't from Strong's.

Perhaps if you reveal your sources I might be able to help you.


*******************************************************************************
Quote from freegratis... My copy of Old Syriac is claimed to have 1 John 5:7 intact. Can you smugly check your copy in your back pocket, since you've been in this forum way way way before me?
*******************************************************************************
OK. This is the third time I am telling you this. Try to pay attention this time.

The oldest and most complete NT manuscripts are Ancient Koine Greek. They are as follows...

Codex Vaticanus (a & b)
Codex Alexandrinus
Codex Sinaiticus


These 4 manuscripts are used to check every English version. Every one. The Old Syriac is said to have large gaping holes in it. Which mean it is by no means complete. Regardless of what the publisher says.

Can you read Syriac?