Who Raised Jesus From The Dead?

4/13/2017 2:55:58 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
a_nubian Columbus, OH 54, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: Three lessons we learn from the Lazarus-rich man parable: 1. There is such a thing as an everlasting firey Hell. 2. Good works are necessary for salvation, and faith by itself won't suffice. (We know the rich man had faith because he prayed to Father Abraham.) 3. Saints, such as Father Abraham, can be prayed to. That's why I am not Catholic. None of those beliefs are supported by Scripture. Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
4/13/2017 2:58:28 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008 online now!	All three are supported by the very Lazarus-rich man parable we are talking about!
4/13/2017 3:12:43 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
a_nubian Columbus, OH 54, joined Jan. 2011	Quote from ludlowlowell: All three are supported by the very Lazarus-rich man parable we are talking about! Not at all
4/14/2017 10:51:22 AM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
freegratis Irving, TX 50, joined Dec. 2011	Quote from freegratis: I might be inclined to believe there is no eternal suffering in Hell (for humans), if this Hades is actually a temporary suffering - Luke 12:47-48, Matthew 5:26. But "The Rich Man and Lazarus" story would need to be a real account instead of a parable. Quote from a_nubian: Sounds like you believe as the Catholics and there is a purgatory. I don't believe in Purgatory. You didn't answer me here, but in Lud's next post you say you don't believe in "an everlasting fiery Hell". Revelation 20:10 disagrees with your position. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. The question that verse does not answer, for you non-eternal-torment people, is "Does eternal torment apply to humans?". Quote from freegratis: I say: You prove my point. This makes your statements about Lazarus not saying where he was and not giving thanks after being raised from the dead irrelevant. Later, I see no account of Tabitha speaking after being raised either. Acts 9:40-43 Quote from a_nubian: I am not sure what you are trying to say. And it doesn't prove your point. Quote from a_nubian: Note: Once Lazarus was raised he never once said he was in heaven or in hell. It proves my point that your comment about speaking after being raised from the dead was pointless. I was simply asking about the facts surrounding this so-called parable. The only one with names, etc. No burden to prove/disprove it. Just something to think about. If Hades (where the rich man was) is thrown into the lake of fire, is it annihilated or is it an eternal torment? (In light of Revelation 20:10) Quote from freegratis: Why would Jesus use a parable perpetuating a lie (preserving a Jewish legend)? Quote from a_nubian: In my last post, I pointed out that Jesus used what they knew. Their legend/fable something that they would understand and He flipped the script. They (Pharisees) thought that they would be the ones in Heaven via Father Abraham. Interesting. Does Jesus perpetuate false teachings in His parables/lessons, to teach a different concept? (i.e Acts 10:13 "Rise Peter kill and eat" this eternally forbidden food really ONLY means "accept the Gentiles", but the food is still forbidden? Or was it acceptable for Peter to eat the previously forbidden food?) Was Peter eating forbidden Gentile food when he was eating with the Gentiles and living in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews in Galatians 2:11-21 (vs 12 and 14)? Quote from a_nubian: The beggar being named Lazarus represented the non Jewish elite. The dogs licking the sores represented the Gentiles. The fact that Jesus did raised one named Lazarus should have given them (Pharisees) pause to recall the parable ...If. they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead And sure enough after Lazarus was raised from the dead they plotted to kill Jesus. The very first lie told to Eve by the serpent was, "you shall not surely die". The pagans believed in a afterlife and the vast majority of Christianity has bought into that lie too. The bible is clear what happens when you die. "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish."* Ps 146:4 Is everlasting punishment http://biblehub.com/greek/aio_nion_166.htm http://biblehub.com/greek/kolasin_2851.htm a punishment like in 2017 when you put a child on temporary punishment (which is a temporary torment), or is it annihilation? Also translated as torment, which I don't think ever meant annihilation. Matthew 25:46 http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/25-46.htm And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. Or, when/how does the unsaved pay for their sins? Simply by annihilation? Or is there torment before annihilation? In light of Luke 12:47-48 (few versus many stripes)
4/14/2017 1:12:54 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008 online now!	Revelation 20:10, as well as the Lazarus-rich man parable, as well as several other teachings of Jesus, says very clearly that there is a firey Hell of eternal damnation. How many times does Jesus have to say it before you believe it?
4/14/2017 1:22:24 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008 online now!	Luke 12:47-48 means that Christians who know the Lord's commandments and will, but refuse to obey and do, will be punished far worse than non-Christians in the next life. The Christian knew better. The non-Christian had common sense and a conscience and maybe should have known better than to commit sin, but he didn't have all the knowledge and graces the Christian did. Similarly, priests and nuns who do not live up to their high calling, will, if they go to Hell, be punished far worse than laypeople who go there. There are different degrees of punishment in Hell. Some suffer worse than others. Same with Purgatory.
4/14/2017 1:30:23 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	Lud, look at your citation, friend. Revelation 20:10 wasn't voiced by Jesus, was it? Revelation 20:10 isn't referring to everyone, is it? Revelation 20:10 refers to specifics, doesn't it? And, Lud, even had Jesus said something about a burning, fiery pit in Revelation 20:10 how many times would he have had to say it before you understood what he was talking about? That is why Jesus spoke to the people he was in contact with in his lifetime as he did: some of them must have been slow-witted, too, so he spoke to them in parables they could easily understand -- like how horrible the punishment would be like the poor sacrificial souks the Pharisees and pagans threw into the burning garbage dump at the out skirts of Jerusalem. LUD, didn't the Roman Catholic Church arise out of the remnants of the destroyed Pharisees and those Seducees who fled the destruction of Jerusalem circa 70 ad? You know, the same Jewish Pharisee's and Sadducces sects who banded together to accuse, arrest, try, torture, and murder my Jesus of Nazareth?
4/14/2017 3:01:47 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008 online now!	No, the Catholic Church did not rose from the remnants of the Pharisees and Saducees after a.d. 70. The Catholic Church was founded forty-odd years before that, by Jesus Christ Himself, with Peter as the first pope, the apostles the first bishops, and with Mass (the "breaking of the bread"), Holy Eucharist, Confessions to priests, nuns ("consecrated widows and virgins"), prayers to saints, prayers for the dead, and Purgatory.
4/14/2017 3:30:45 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	Luke 12:47King James Version (KJV) 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luke 12:48King James Version (KJV) 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. By raining down fire and brimstone upon the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, God not only demonstrated how He felt about overt sin, but He also launched an enduring metaphor. After the events of Genesis 19:24, the mere mention of fire, brimstone, Sodom or Gomorrah instantly transports a reader into the context of God’s judgment. Such an emotionally potent symbol, however, has trouble escaping its own gravity. This fiery image can impede, rather than advance, its purpose. A symbol should show a similarity between two dissimilar entities. Fire and brimstone describes some of what hell is like—but not all of what hell is. The word the Bible uses to describe a burning hell—Gehenna—comes from an actual burning place, the valley of Gehenna adjacent to Jerusalem on the south. Gehenna is an English transliteration of the Greek form of an Aramaic word, which is derived from the Hebrew phrase “the Valley of (the son[s] of) Hinnom.” In one of their greatest apostasies, the Jews (especially under kings Ahaz and Manasseh) passed their children through the fires in sacrifice to the god Molech in that very valley (2 Kings 16:3; 2 Chronicles 33:6; Jeremiah 32:35). Eventually, the Jews considered that location to be ritually unclean (2 Kings 23:10), and they defiled it all the more by casting the bodies of criminals into its smoldering heaps. In Jesus’ time this was a place of constant fire, but more so, it was a refuse heap, the last stop for all items judged by men to be worthless. When Jesus spoke of Gehenna hell, He was speaking of the city dump of all eternity. Yes, fire was part of it, but the purposeful casting away—the separation and loss—was all of it. In Mark 9:43 Jesus used another powerful image to illustrate the seriousness of hell. “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.” For most readers, this image does escape its own gravity—in spite of the goriness! Few believe that Jesus wants us literally to cut off our own hand. He would rather that we do whatever is necessary to avoid going to hell, and that is the purpose of such language—to polarize, to set up an either/or dynamic, to compare. Since the first part of the passage uses imagery, the second part does also, and therefore should not be understood as an encyclopedic description of hell. In addition to fire, the New Testament describes hell as a bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13). The very variety of hell’s descriptors argues against applying a literal interpretation of any particular one. For instance, hell’s literal fire could emit no light, since hell would be literally dark. Its fire could not consume its literal fuel (persons!) since their torment is non-ending. Additionally, the gradation of punishments within hell also confounds literalness. Does hell’s fire burn Hitler more fiercely than an honest pagan? Does he fall more rapidly in the abyss than another? Is it darker for Hitler? Does he wail and gnash more loudly or more continually than the other? The variety and symbolic nature of descriptors do not lessen hell, however—just the opposite, in fact. Their combined effect describes a hell that is worse than death, darker than darkness, and deeper than any abyss. Hell is a place with more wailing and gnashing of teeth than any single descriptor could ever portray. Its symbolic descriptors bring us to a place beyond the limits of our language—to a place far worse than we could ever imagine. Recommended Resource: Four Views on Hell edited by John Walvoord
4/14/2017 3:30:55 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory is “a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.” To summarize, in Catholic theology Purgatory is a place that a Christian’s soul goes to after death to be cleansed of the sins that had not been fully satisfied during life. Is this doctrine of Purgatory in agreement with the Bible? Absolutely not! Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares, “But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation. The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, sliver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.” Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified. The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1,14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice. For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified. Recommended Resource: Heaven by Randy Alcorn
4/14/2017 3:36:08 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	"What is the origin of the Roman Catholic Church?" Answer: The Roman Catholic Church contends that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately AD 30. The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church? For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism. Constantine found that, with the Roman Empire being so vast, expansive, and diverse, not everyone would agree to forsake his or her religious beliefs to embrace Christianity. So, Constantine allowed, and even promoted, the “Christianization” of pagan beliefs. Completely pagan and utterly unbiblical beliefs were given new “Christian” identities. Some clear examples of this are as follows: (1) The Cult of Isis, an Egyptian mother-goddess religion, was absorbed into Christianity by replacing Isis with Mary. Many of the titles that were used for Isis, such as “Queen of Heaven,” “Mother of God,” and theotokos (“God-bearer”) were attached to Mary. Mary was given an exalted role in the Christian faith, far beyond what the Bible ascribes to her, in order to attract Isis worshippers to a faith they would not otherwise embrace. Many temples to Isis were, in fact, converted into temples dedicated to Mary. The first clear hints of Catholic Mariology occur in the writings of Origen, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt, which happened to be the focal point of Isis worship. (2) Mithraism was a religion in the Roman Empire in the 1st through 5th centuries AD. It was very popular among the Romans, especially among Roman soldiers, and was possibly the religion of several Roman emperors. While Mithraism was never given “official” status in the Roman Empire, it was the de facto official religion until Constantine and succeeding Roman emperors replaced Mithraism with Christianity. One of the key features of Mithraism was a sacrificial meal, which involved eating the flesh and drinking the blood of a bull. Mithras, the god of Mithraism, was “present” in the flesh and blood of the bull, and when consumed, granted salvation to those who partook of the sacrificial meal (this is known as theophagy, the eating of one’s god). Mithraism also had seven “sacraments,” making the similarities between Mithraism and Roman Catholicism too many to ignore. Church leaders after Constantine found an easy substitute for the sacrificial meal of Mithraism in the concept of the Lord’s Supper/Christian communion. Even before Constantine, some early Christians had begun to attach mysticism to the Lord’s Supper, rejecting the biblical concept of a simple and worshipful remembrance of Christ’s death and shed blood. The Romanization of the Lord’s Supper made the transition to a sacrificial consumption of Jesus Christ, now known as the Catholic Mass/Eucharist, complete. (3) Most Roman emperors (and citizens) were henotheists. A henotheist is one who believes in the existence of many gods, but focuses primarily on one particular god or considers one particular god supreme over the other gods. For example, the Roman god Jupiter was supreme over the Roman pantheon of gods. Roman sailors were often worshippers of Neptune, the god of the oceans. When the Catholic Church absorbed Roman paganism, it simply replaced the pantheon of gods with the saints. Just as the Roman pantheon of gods had a god of love, a god of peace, a god of war, a god of strength, a god of wisdom, etc., so the Catholic Church has a saint who is “in charge” over each of these, and many other categories. Just as many Roman cities had a god specific to the city, so the Catholic Church provided “patron saints” for the cities.
4/14/2017 3:36:20 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
clarity101 Aurora, CO 66, joined Oct. 2008	(4) The supremacy of the Roman bishop (the papacy) was created with the support of the Roman emperors. With the city of Rome being the center of government for the Roman Empire, and with the Roman emperors living in Rome, the city of Rome rose to prominence in all facets of life. Constantine (AD 272–337) and his successors gave their support to the bishop of Rome as the supreme ruler of the church. Of course, it is best for the unity of the Roman Empire that the government and state religion be centralized. While most other bishops (and Christians) resisted the idea of the Roman bishop being supreme, the Roman bishop eventually rose to supremacy, due to the power and influence of the Roman emperors. When the Western half of the Roman Empire collapsed in 476, the popes took on the title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors—Pontifex Maximus. Pope Gregory I, ruling from 590–604, is usually considered the first bishop to truly wield papal authority. Many more examples could be given. These four should suffice in demonstrating the origin of the Catholic Church. Of course, the Roman Catholic Church denies the pagan origin of its beliefs and practices. The Catholic Church disguises its pagan beliefs under layers of complicated theology and “church tradition.” Recognizing that many of its beliefs and practices are utterly foreign to Scripture, the Catholic Church is forced to deny the authority and sufficiency of Scripture. The origin of the Catholic Church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it. Instead of proclaiming the gospel and converting the pagans, the Catholic Church “Christianized” the pagan religions, and “paganized” Christianity. By blurring the differences and erasing the distinctions, yes, the Catholic Church made itself attractive to the people of the Roman Empire. One result was the Catholic Church becoming the supreme religion in the Roman world for centuries. However, another result was the most dominant form of Christianity apostatizing from the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true proclamation of God’s Word. Second Timothy 4:3–4 declares, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” Recommended Resource: Reasoning from the Scriptures with Catholics by Ron Rhodes
4/14/2017 4:14:04 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008 online now!	As far back as we have records, Christians believed in the primacy of the bishop of Rome, the priesthood, the Mass, the Holy Eucharist, prayers to saints, the assumption of Mary's body into Heaven, Confession to priests, and Purgatory. They also looked to the teaching authority of the Church instead of the Bible because there was no Bible until 393 a.d.
4/14/2017 4:35:53 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
a_nubian Columbus, OH 54, joined Jan. 2011	Freegratis Revelation 20:10 disagrees with your position. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Revelation 20:10 disagrees with your position. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. The question that verse does not answer, for you non-eternal-torment people, is "Does eternal torment apply to humans?". No it doesn't. Duet 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever: Jonah 2: 6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God. Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Is Sodom still on fire? No Is Jonah still in the belly of the fish? No Were the Moabites allowed in the congregation? Yes (Ruth) Hell burns only as long as it takes to destroy the wicked. Free It proves my point that your comment about speaking after being raised from the dead was pointless. I was simply asking about the facts surrounding this so-called parable. The only one with names, etc. No burden to prove/disprove it. Just something to think about. If Hades (where the rich man was) is thrown into the lake of fire, is it annihilated or is it an eternal torment? (In light of Revelation 20:10) That is circular logic. Once again I did not prove your point nor was it pointless. Your understanding of that parable is literal. And it contradicts all prior scripture I have provided regarding the state of the dead in the OT. The Catholics introduced the idea of the an eternal fire and when protestantism emerged from Catholism many held on to that erroneous belief that the dead go to hell or heaven. Theologians that believed in soul sleep until the Resurrection: William Tyndale (1494–1536) John Wycliffe (1320–84) Anabaptists Michael Sattler (1490–1527) Martin Luther (1483–1546) Soure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mortalism
4/14/2017 4:51:15 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
ludlowlowell Panama City, FL 65, joined Feb. 2008 online now!	God never completely destroys the wicked, to the point that they cease to exist. God loves them too much for that. Yes, God actually loves tge souls in Hell! He actually still loves the devil and all the fallen angels. He loves them way too much to cause them to cease existing, but He can't let them into Heaven because only those who love God can go to Heaven, so He gives them what their sins deserve---Hell forever. The fires of Hell? They are merely the fires of God's love, experienced as painful by the angels and humans in Hell.
4/14/2017 4:56:43 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Ludlow says: "God never completely destroys the wicked, to the point that they cease to exist. God loves them too much for that. Yes, God actually loves tge souls in Hell! He actually still loves the devil and all the fallen angels. He loves them way too much to cause them to cease existing, but He can't let them into Heaven because only those who love God can go to Heaven, so He gives them what their sins deserve---Hell forever. The fires of Hell? They are merely the fires of God's love, experienced as painful by the angels and humans in Hell." ============================================================================= You're a sick Cathlick man, Lud. You defy God. You refuse to obey God. You contradict God. You blaspheme God.
4/14/2017 4:59:40 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	quote from Ludlow: God never completely destroys the wicked, to the point that they cease to exist. God loves them too much for that. Yes, God actually loves tge souls in Hell! He actually still loves the devil and all the fallen angels. He loves them way too much to cause them to cease existing, but He can't let them into Heaven because only those who love God can go to Heaven, so He gives them what their sins deserve---Hell forever. The fires of Hell? They are merely the fires of God's love, experienced as painful by the angels and humans in Hell. You are spiritually insane to assert God chooses to torment those who reject His loving ways for all eternity than see them cease to exist. You are the sadistic nutcase not God, Ludlow. [Edited 4/14/2017 5:00:42 PM ]
4/14/2017 5:03:28 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
a_nubian Columbus, OH 54, joined Jan. 2011	Feegratis Interesting. Does Jesus perpetuate false teachings in His parables/lessons, to teach a different concept? (i.e Acts 10:13 "Rise Peter kill and eat" this eternally forbidden food really ONLY means "accept the Gentiles", but the food is still forbidden? Or was it acceptable for Peter to eat the previously forbidden food?) Was Peter eating forbidden Gentile food when he was eating with the Gentiles and living in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews in Galatians 2:11-21 (vs 12 and 14)? No argument about eating forbidden food. Why? Because it was already established that it was forbidden in Leviticus. "Abraham's bosom", was only spoken about one time in the bible. You can't compare Peter's example to Abraham's bosom because "Abraham's bosom" was never mentioned before in scripture. However, the bible does talk about what happens when you die, as I pointed out via scripture. Your consciousness is gone. It was the Pharisees understanding of what was to await them when they died. I pointed out that the Sadducees did not believe in an after life that's why if Jesus told it to them it would have been a moot point. Luke 16:27, 28 "Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have* five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment." 5 – represents teaching. First, there are the five books of Moses. Second, Jesus taught about the five wise virgins and used five barley loaves used to feed the 5,000. Five Brethren: This is speculation but the five brethren could have been referring to the: Sadducees Scribes Essenes Herodians Zealots
4/14/2017 5:23:16 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
a_nubian Columbus, OH 54, joined Jan. 2011	Free Is everlasting punishment http://biblehub.com/greek/aio_nion_166.htm http://biblehub.com/greek/kolasin_2851.htm a punishment like in 2017 when you put a child on temporary punishment (which is a temporary torment), or is it annihilation? Also translated as torment, which I don't think ever meant annihilation. Matthew 25:46 http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/25-46.htm And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. Or, when/how does the unsaved pay for their sins? Simply by annihilation? Or is there torment before annihilation? In light of Luke 12:47-48 (few versus many stripes) For God so Love the World that He gave His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him Shall not Perish but shall have Everlasting Life. The Everlasting life is for the righteous not the wicked. Fear Him that can destroy both body and soul. Not to roast them forever. For 18, 20, 30 60, 80, 90 years of life one suffers throughout eternity? We as mere mortals can't even grasp that concept of eternity. After 1 trillion years we have another trillion to go forever? That ever burning concept has cause more people to turn their back on God and even create atheist because how could such a "Loving God" burn His Children Forever because they would not accept Him. Free why don't you google Hell and Mr. Fudge how a Pastor researched this topic himself in the bible.
4/14/2017 10:13:20 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Wow. I didn't realize there was a question/poll here with a smart alecky choice regarding The Urantia Book. Sorry for the delay. Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? Answer 1: The Father Answer 2: The Son Answer 3: The Holy Spirit Answer 4: These Three Are One? Answer 5: Jesus Didn't Die (I'm Muslim) Answer 6: Obviously the Life Carriers of Morontia Creation (I'm Urantian) I can tell you that The Urantia Book does NOT say that the Life Carriers raised Jesus from the dead. And I have no idea what "the Life Carriers of Morontia Creation" are. Here is the answer to "Who raised Jesus from the dead"?, from Jesus himself: "I have the power to lay down my life and to take it up again; the Father gives such power to his Paradise Sons." -The Urantia Book, Paper 193 So now this has been revealed to you.
4/14/2017 10:15:40 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	Jesus raised himself.
4/14/2017 10:18:30 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from cupocheer: Jesus raised himself. That's exactly right, cup.
4/14/2017 10:19:53 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010	I know, FJO. It's in scripture. Happy Easter Weekend.
4/14/2017 10:26:16 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	Quote from cupocheer: I know, FJO. It's in scripture. Happy Easter Weekend. Are you sure? Then why did freegratis ask the question? And out of the 6 choices, how come no one picked "the Son," assuming that Jesus is meant by "the Son"? Where is it in the scripture, cup? Chapter and verse please?
4/15/2017 9:48:12 AM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
kb2222 Jacksonville, FL 77, joined Apr. 2011	Quote from kb2222: A Creator Son has within himself the power to bestow himself in the likeness of any of his created sons; he has within himself the power to lay down his observable life and to take it up again; and he has this power because of the direct command of the Paradise Father. Quote from sharenlove: John 10:18, No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father." We agree.
4/15/2017 4:12:09 PM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
followjesusonly Kingman, AZ 74, joined May. 2012	If the answer to this is right in the scriptures, which it seems to be, why did freegratis ask the question? And The Urantia Book says the exact same thing the scriptures say. So why did he ask the question? Was it just to throw some shade?
5/30/2017 8:46:45 AM	Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? \| Page 5
cupocheer Assumption, IL 68, joined May. 2010

hookup apps 2018

best hookup apps in nyc

hookup apps 2018

best hookup apps in nyc

Who Raised Jesus From The Dead?

Who Raised Jesus From The Dead? | Page 5