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9/25/2012 6:48:31 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


I'm guilty of needing to sleep at night, because I have to work.
You are guilty of hate crime.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from asanb:
And also Jim, What is it that you think should be done to "clean up" this viral epidemic of religious criminals?

I quote you:
"You have to get it into your head that Islam is a hate religion.
It's own sites, are hate sites,
That's what Islam does,
They kill people,
They torture people. "


If Islam begets rape and murder and pediphilia as you say, then for the sake of peace and securuty, it must be in the best interest of everyone that these people be Identified ( perhaps with a patch sewn on thier clothing), and that they be rounded up.

And we could have a book burning of Korans like the world has never seen, so that the book stops corrupting our youth.

What say you, Jim? What is the "Final Solution" for the Islam problem?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now we are getting somewhere
The identification is not the people,
the identifying factors are writtin in the religion itself.

Lets take pedophillia and sex crimes.
These are rampant in islam.
Muhammed was a pedophile, there is no Question to that. it is writtin in islamic text he was a pedophile.
Whatever Muhammed did was OK.
So we have a society that buys and sells young girls to old pedophiles.
religious leaders marrying children,
Khomeni at 35 married a ten year old.
he was caught raping a 4 year old in a tempory marriage.

You may have whoever you desire, ( I forget where but i can look it up.)

when muslims go to civilized countries, the sex crimes hit the roof.
Why is all of this.

it is because the writings of the religion itself, allow and promote it.

That is where the problem lies, all of the problem. ;

we can attach this logic to any of the problems that arise in islam.


you have pedophiles in any religion, in fact religion attracts them,
They have the trust of the parents and kids, and doors are open for the pedophils.
Look at the problems with the catholic clergy and pedophiles.

The big difference here is that in civilzed countries, the perpatraters go to jail.

In islam pedophilia is legal, and they have commited no crime.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is slander

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9/25/2012 10:13:46 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


slander.

a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.

call it whatever you want the next day, it is irrelavant.

If you want to discuss it we can do so.
To ignore, and fail to resopnd to posts of your own assusations is irresponsible and slanderous worse than what you are accusing.

Your arguement is baseless.
n fact you have proven you have no arguement.

9/25/2012 10:49:45 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
uniquecover
Over 1,000 Posts (1,286)
Aurora, IL
29, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from nicecathy:
And I want to point out, your muslim buddies will not help you on this, even though I encourage them to do so.
Uniquecover is online right now, get him to help, he will not.


1.) I'm sorry, do I know you? Because unless you're Jim (and you probably are, since you called me a he), then I can't recall having interactions with you.

And if you are Jim, that's rich considering he's the one who keeps on lying about me and saying I have multiple accounts.

2.) I was sleeping at 2 AM. I don't know why it said I was online.

9/25/2012 11:30:20 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
uniquecover
Over 1,000 Posts (1,286)
Aurora, IL
29, joined Jul. 2012


I'm pretty sure it is Jim.

HA! what's also funny is that you're so determined to keep calling me a male yet YOU'RE the one who has a male AND female account. Now which one is the truth?



[Edited 9/25/2012 11:30:31 AM ]

9/25/2012 5:43:57 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


I think this thread is done.



9/25/2012 5:45:27 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


It's done because you want it to be

We can resume at any time.

9/25/2012 9:41:40 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  

writer1776
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,839)
Tucson, AZ
59, joined Jun. 2009


Islam and Muslims, spooky as any false doctrine...

Origins and beginning of epoch:

Time Scale Slider 39:45





Muslim warrior S'la Al'Din quarried casing stones from the great Pyramid at Giza as defensive position against Fatima, but that jihadi boy was 'Horns of Hattin' smart. Do you believe Pyramid destruction was an effort to re-write history in favor of Islam ?

The Great Pyramid is self evidently a EMF and HHO power plant-- Pyramid itself is from Greek origin meaning 'Fire in the center'.

Was S'la Al'Din aware of ancient claims that Enoch, author of the Book of Enoch, walked with G_d and built the Great Pyramid of Giza and was no more...

Is Enoch a witness against Islam and all Muslims and will he return, with another, as a living testimony ? It's a two man job. Who and where are they ?



[Edited 9/25/2012 9:42:11 PM ]

9/28/2012 7:03:22 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
allen283
Over 1,000 Posts (1,197)
Salem, OH
61, joined Apr. 2012


Quote from asanb:
I think this thread is done.



I think you should join Act for American and listen to Brigitte Gabriel.
You could learn a lot.

9/28/2012 7:23:38 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Is this who you are recommending?

Brigitte Gabriel is a notorious apologist for the fascist Phalange group, Kataeb, and the terrorist group, the South Lebanon Army (SLA), who were responsible for the Sabra and Shatila massacres that slaughtered 1700 to 2000 Palestinians (mostly women and chidren).

Her story is that she grew up during that nation’s long, and bloody civil war. It was a war that claimed many lives and saw many factions shift alliances and allegiance. Groups that were enemies in the morning became allies at night. Indeed, Muslims fought Muslims and Christians fought Christians.

She seems to play up this milieu to justify her views, as if we should – moved by her “alibi” – automatically excuse and accept them. But her alibi is objectionable since most Lebanese who grew up during this same war did not turn out as rabidly racist as she did.

Gabriel believes Arabs “have no soul!”

"The difference, my friends, between Israel and the Arab world is the difference between civilization and barbarism. It’s the difference between good and evil [applause]…. this is what we’re witnessing in the Arabic world, They have no SOUL !, they are dead set on killing and destruction. And in the name of something they call “Allah” which is very different from the God we believe….[applause] because our God is the God of love."

(No soul? An oddly dehumanizing thing for an alleged Christian to say, don’t you think?)

It is no wonder then that theThe New York Times Magazine describes her as a “Radical Islamophobe.”

Brigitte’s self-contradiction is notable. At times she seems to acknowledge that “moderate” Muslims exist,

"It’s the duty of all moderate Muslims to speak against the hate, against the Jihad… the people in the West must support the moderates."
The same Brigitte Gabriel on another day scoffs at the notion that a Muslim can be moderate,

"America and the West are doomed to failure in this war unless they stand up and identify the real enemy: Islam. You hear about Wahabbi and Salafi Islam as the only extreme form of Islam. All the other Muslims, supposedly, are wonderful moderates. Closer to the truth are the pictures of the irrational eruption of violence in reaction to the cartoons of Mohammed printed by a Danish newspaper…derived from one source: authentic Islam."

And she spills out to the Australian News her bizarre definition of a radical Muslim:

"a practising Muslim who goes to mosque every Friday, prays five times a day, and who believes that the Koran is the word of God, and who believes that Mohammed is the perfect man and (four inaudible words) is a radical Muslim."
Let me get this straight, so a Muslim who essentially observes the basic five pillars of Islam is a radical? That leaves us with 1.4 billion radical Muslims, so who gets to be the “moderate” Muslim, I’m confused.

So Brigitte, what is it? Are there any moderates or not? Brigitte seems to be telling us that the only acceptable Muslims are the ones who don’t practice Islam altogether? Or perhaps, she’s even implying that the only good Muslim is an ex-Muslim?

The question becomes, how can someone so blatantly clueless get airtime anywhere other than on America’s Funniest Home Videos?

The answer, Brigitte has found her very own litte niche to settle within the lucrative business of Muslim-bashing. Her forte is to parlay her “otherness,” and so-called “insider knowledge of the Muslim world,” (the “I’ve been there, I know” line) into a cash cow. Meanwhile we are supposed to be duped into freaking out and running back to her for more “expert” advice brought to us from our loyal friend who ventures into the other side on our behalf.

Gabriel started two organizations, American Congress for Truth (ACT) and (she seems to be running out of ideas) Act! for America that receive plenty of funding and “donations” from the likes of the goonish Christians United for Israel and others. Maybe she thinks Americans are gullible or maybe she is a true hypocrite as Andre Gide said,

The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception, the one who lies with sincerity.
This very well may be the case with our merchant of intolerance and misunderstanding, Brigitte Gabriel.

9/28/2012 8:02:30 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
allen283
Over 1,000 Posts (1,197)
Salem, OH
61, joined Apr. 2012


I'm not saying i support her beliefs, i just thought it's good to listen
to all points of views and i did not know if you had ever heard her point
of views.

As far as anyone not having a soul, well that is foolish, everyone has
a soul but she does not know the difference between soul and spirit.

9/28/2012 8:03:20 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
heymisterchris
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,439)
Hicksville, NY
56, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from asanb:
From A manual of Hadith, by Maulana Muhammad Ali, M.A., LL.B.
Lahore
[1944]


CHAPTER XXX
ETHICS
(Adab)


1. "The noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the best of you in conduct" (49:13).

2. "And do good to your parents. If either of them or both of them reach old age with thee, say not to them, fie: nor chide them: and speak to them a generous word. And make thyself submissively gentle to them with compassion, and say, My Lord! Have mercy on them as they brought me up when I was little" (17:23, 24).

3. "And do not kill your children for fear of poverty . We give them sustenance and yourselves too" (17:31).

4 "And when about the one buried alive it is asked, For what sin was she killed?" (81:8, 9).

5. "Righteousness is this that one should believe in Allah . . . . and give away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for the emancipation of the captives" (2:17).

6. "And they (the women) have rights similar to those (men have) over them in a just manner" (2:228).

7. "And keep them (your wives) in good fellowship" (2:229, 231).

8. "The believers are but brethren, so make peace between your brethren" (49:10).

9. "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah: and those with him are firm of heart against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves" (48:29).

10. "And the men who speak the truth and the women who speak the truth . . . Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a great reward" (33:35).

11. "Woe to every slanderer, defamer" (104:1). p. 372

12. "Let not a people deride another people nor let women deride women . . . . . Neither defame one another, nor call one another by nicknames . . . . Shun much suspicion. And spy not, nor backbite one another" (49:11, 12).

13. "And fulfil promise, for the promise shall be questioned about" (17: 34).

14. "And give full measure when you measure out, and weigh with a true balance" (17: 35).

15. "And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden except for a just cause" (17: 33).

16. "And those who shun the great sins and indecencies, and whenever they are angry they forgive" (42:37).

17. "And the recompense of evil is punishment like it; but whoever forgives and amends, he shall have his reward from Allah" (42:40).

18. "And the servants of the Beneficent are they who walk on earth in humbleness; and when the ignorant address them they say, Peace" (25:63).

19. "And go not nigh to fornication, for it is an indecency and evil is the way" (17:32).

20. "Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts."

"Say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts, and not display their beauty except what appears thereof; and let them draw their head-coverings over their bosoms" (24:30, 31).

21. "And as for women advanced in years who do not hope for a marriage, it is no sin for them if they put off their cloaks, not displaying their beauty" (24:60).

22. "Do not enter houses other than your own houses without permission and saluting their inmates and if it is said to you, Go back. then go back" (24:27, 28).



Aside from this post I found no material from Islamic sources in this thread that would educate me about the faith. Could it be that if I want to learn about Islam I have to rely on non islamic western sources. Has the Islamic faith produced no interfaith english speaking outreach material to educate people such as myself about Islam.

9/28/2012 8:13:55 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
uniquecover
Over 1,000 Posts (1,286)
Aurora, IL
29, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from heymisterchris:
Aside from this post I found no material from Islamic sources in this thread that would educate me about the faith. Could it be that if I want to learn about Islam I have to rely on non islamic western sources. Has the Islamic faith produced no interfaith english speaking outreach material to educate people such as myself about Islam.


http://www.islam-guide.com/


That's a wonderful booklet (the link contains the whole thing) and I recommend it to any non-Muslims who are curious to learn more. In fact, I have a stash of these just for that purpose.

It's concise but it goes into just enough detail for the average non-Muslim (and even Muslim!).



[Edited 9/28/2012 8:15:24 PM ]

9/28/2012 8:34:32 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  

writer1776
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,839)
Tucson, AZ
59, joined Jun. 2009


Farrakahan and Oprah educate millions-- Farrakhan openly states that Obama is the Messiah of Islam...Ak-ma-Dinner-jacket of Iran is silent on the subject...




9/28/2012 8:40:40 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
heymisterchris
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,439)
Hicksville, NY
56, joined Dec. 2010


Thank you Unique. I knew there would be. I could care less what non muslims know about the faith. I felt the same way when I wanted to learn about Buddhism. If you really want to learn you go right to the source. By the way you have no pic. I'm curious. Are you cute?



Just one little side note. Christopher Columbus used celestial navigation on his infamous journey westward. Which was a novel skill for a european navigator. Apparently it was an issue among some of the crew.

None of his crews ever actually mutinied even though there were rumbleings and water and food shortages. They sailed further then halfway through there food and water and kept going. This to me and many other historians is the sign of a truly great leader, and a truly brave crew.

The fact that he hit dry land is a sign he was a great navigator.

It is also a sign of how dependable that islamic technology of celestial navigation was.

You'll never here that in the revisionist Columbus bashing history of today.

I would also add that many people of Columbus's time thought the world was round. This wasn't just an idea of Columbus's.



[Edited 9/28/2012 8:42:14 PM ]

9/28/2012 8:46:26 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from heymisterchris
Aside from this post I found no material from Islamic sources in this thread that would educate me about the faith. Could it be that if I want to learn about Islam I have to rely on non islamic western sources. Has the Islamic faith produced no interfaith english speaking outreach material to educate people such as myself about Islam.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the past few quotes are typical of islam.
Don't listen to brigitte gabrial bcause she belongs to such and such group.
Ignoring the fact she was about 7 years old when she fled lebanon, and further ignoring the fact of the tens of thousands that were slaughtered forcing her to leave.
so she is being aligned with another group that she is not part of.
That is typical muslim retoric.
They will scream crusades, which were 4 i think, into a land the size of New jersey, but they will quietly ignore the over 500 jihads into Europe, and a land mass the size of half the US.

If you want to actually learn about islam, you have few options.
The best source is the Qur'an, and sunnah, which is countless hours of reading,
A shorter lesson is reading the Qur'an and Sirat Rasuall Allah together.

You will not get accurate info from a muslim. In fact, few even know.
Muhammed is an embarassment to islam, and you need to get into a terrorist group to learn the real story.
They will gladly tell it.
If you are truly interested , message me and I will direct you to some accredited sources that islam will not tell you about.

9/28/2012 8:52:53 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


LOLOL

and btw, uniquecover is a man. A muslim predator.
He was here a few monthe back and i spanked him thououghly and he ran, coming back as a woman and learned the block feature winch he used on me.
He is also the perfect example to prove what I am speaking of.
He will direct you to books that were writtin last year, which he will clain came fron original writings, which they did not.
why not read the originals you ask.
Because the originals have the real story that islam does not want you to know.

he will flat out refuse to answer any question i ask him and I can prove this to you as we speak.
I can give you questions, lots of them, that he will flat out refuse to answer, and if you ast too many times he will block you.
I have spent the thousands of hours ofer the past 7 years reading the Qur'an and sunnah,
I know what is in there.

9/28/2012 8:55:53 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


and I want to emphasize BTW, i can very politly ask real questions about Islam that anyone who reads about it would want answers for.
There is no reason to refuse to answer them unless you are lying.
And i prove every single thing i say about Islam., from the only accepted sources on the planet.
The Qur'an and sunnah.
Test us and you will see.

9/28/2012 8:57:03 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


I willingly and openly ask uniquecover to come to the table and lets compare facts.

he will refuse to do so.

9/28/2012 9:01:15 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


and befor you pat the muslims on the back about celistial navagation, you have to realize they were ahead of the european countries.
The muslims depended on the skys for countless centuries for navagation accross the desert.
the skys were their gods.
The moon God was later Allah.
also the greeks and hindu, knew the earthwas round long befor Islam was invented.

9/28/2012 9:18:26 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


The reality is that when discussing Islam, exactly what is the truth, how do i know if it is true.

Islam itself is a product of the 9th cebtury, not the 7th as is claimed.
The earlist documentation is the Sirat Rasual Allah, 120 years after the fact.
The only biography of muhammed writtin within 200 years of his lifetime.
There is no earlier and more accurate source.
Then Taburi. the oldest uncencored source.
Islam will deny these to westerners, because they expose some very sensitive material.
The creation, intentions, the extremly graphic rapes and murders of muhammed and his merry men.
Then Bukhari and later muslim, which are still pretty sick but not as bad and these are 250 to 300 years later.

it is these books that set the standare of rob, rape, and kill, and give 20& of the booty to the leaders.

it was these books, the only source for all of islam, that inspired the murderous ventures into Europe and Idia, for booty.

There very books that are totally embarassing now in th 21st century and muslims do not want you to see them and uniquecover and ToeJam are perfect examples of that.
Ask them why they are not directing you to the originals, and instead, something new.

9/28/2012 9:24:26 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
chrisbrz
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (15,780)
Wilmette, IL
42, joined May. 2011


.
Quote from chrisbrz:
Here's a source for you where Christians haven't polluted the well so to speak.

I don't have an intense enough interest in Islam to study it.
But if I were too ,
a scholarly produced concordance and study of Qur'anic Hermenuetics would be a good idea.


9/28/2012 9:25:21 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
uniquecover
Over 1,000 Posts (1,286)
Aurora, IL
29, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from heymisterchris:
Thank you Unique. I knew there would be. I could care less what non muslims know about the faith. I felt the same way when I wanted to learn about Buddhism. If you really want to learn you go right to the source.


You're welcome & agreed.

By the way you have no pic. I'm curious. Are you cute?


I have no picture for a reason; I'm a Muslim woman and I do not feel comfortable posting a picture of myself. Plus, it would kind of defeat the purpose of covering (so would telling you what I looked like).




I think that he's over-simplifying this AND giving too much credit to/exaggerates Imaam al-Ghazali's influence on the entire Muslim world.

He neglects to mention that the Crusades and the Mongol sack of Baghdad (the learning center of the world at that time) all happened around that time period that he's referring to. And there are a whole lot of other factors that I won't get into because I'm aware of how long my posts get.

9/28/2012 9:30:57 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
heymisterchris
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,439)
Hicksville, NY
56, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from jim_a49:
I willingly and openly ask uniquecover to come to the table and lets compare facts.

he will refuse to do so.


Uniquecover is a dude? Is that true Uniquecover? Are you a guy posing as a woman?

9/28/2012 9:32:44 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
heymisterchris
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,439)
Hicksville, NY
56, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from uniquecover:
I think that he's over-simplifying this AND giving too much credit to/exaggerates Imaam al-Ghazali's influence on the entire Muslim world.

He neglects to mention that the Crusades and the Mongol sack of Baghdad (the learning center of the world at that time) all happened around that time period that he's referring to. And there are a whole lot of other factors that I won't get into because I'm aware of how long my posts get.


Jim says your a guy. What is your response to this allegation?



[Edited 9/28/2012 9:33:07 PM ]

9/28/2012 9:36:48 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
uniquecover
Over 1,000 Posts (1,286)
Aurora, IL
29, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from heymisterchris:
Uniquecover is a dude? Is that true Uniquecover? Are you a guy posing as a woman?


Nope. Jim, on the otherhand, has 2 accounts - one male and one female. In fact, I believe (s)he posted in this very thread with the nicecathy account. Ask him/her what (s)he really is. Or maybe they're a hermaphrodite?


As for why I will refuse to talk to Jim, it has been outlined here:

https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-965740-16.htm

Ok believe what you want.

The truth is apparent for all to see.

It started here on page 3 (goes on to part of page 4): https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-959210-31.htm - I said that I will only talk to you as long as you don’t insult Islaam. You agreed.

Then we took it here: https://DateHookup.dating/Thread-964581.htm - then you insulted the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) again and, as I said, it was game over.

And now this new thread was started because I was done with you and your thread.


9/28/2012 9:42:24 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Something else i want to stress and cannot do it enough.
i have studied islam for the past 7 years and am psysically involved with a civic group in Seattle that helps, mostly abused 3re world, women escape the slavery of islam. sometimes to other states.
i am by no means an Islamic scholar, but I do know my way around the religion.

people accuse what i say as my oppinion, which could not be further from the truth.
I provide facts, actual documentation, for anything i say,
Something uniquecover refuses to do.

I stress, don't take my word for it, read it yourself.
I didn't write the books, I just read them.

Even the books he will send you to, "DO NOT" put in refferences to actual suras, because they simply do not exist.
This too, I will be more than willing to prove.

9/28/2012 9:42:36 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
uniquecover
Over 1,000 Posts (1,286)
Aurora, IL
29, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from heymisterchris:
Jim says your a guy. What is your response to this allegation?


That (s)he and everyone else here can believe what they want. I don't really give a damn what gender people think I am.


Jim just made a claim and everyone who is part of his little group perpetuates that claim probably thinking it's going to hurt me in some way? Well, guess what? It doesn't, lol. On the contrary, it really makes me smile/laugh because people can't come to terms with the fact that a Muslim woman loves her religion.

9/28/2012 9:47:45 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


As I was saying,
Muhammed is a total embarassment to modern islam, and they are doing their best to invent an entirly new charactor for the dumb americans.

But unfortunatly for them, the original writings have been translated into a dozen languages and they will not go away.

9/28/2012 9:50:25 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from uniquecover:
I think that he's over-simplifying this AND giving too much credit to/exaggerates Imaam al-Ghazali's influence on the entire Muslim world.

He neglects to mention that the Crusades and the Mongol sack of Baghdad (the learning center of the world at that time) all happened around that time period that he's referring to. And there are a whole lot of other factors that I won't get into because I'm aware of how long my posts get.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
LOLOL

The crusades were 4 ventures into israel.
How can you even compare these with over 500 jihads into Europe.

9/28/2012 9:51:50 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


mr chriss, watch this, it is very good and pt 1



9/28/2012 9:53:31 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


I can't see uniquecovers responces he has me blocked, please copy his stuff so i can see it and respond.

9/28/2012 9:57:06 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
chrisbrz
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (15,780)
Wilmette, IL
42, joined May. 2011


.
Quote from uniquecover:
I think that he's over-simplifying this AND giving too much credit to/exaggerates Imaam al-Ghazali's influence on the entire Muslim world.

He neglects to mention that the Crusades and the Mongol sack of Baghdad (the learning center of the world at that time) all happened around that time period that he's referring to. And there are a whole lot of other factors that I won't get into because I'm aware of how long my posts get.

That's because your only seeing a condensed version of what is an hour long speech.
Actually Islam is irrelevant to his point, the overall theme of the speech.
He also gave several examples of the same thing in Christianity.

What the speech is really about is the God of the Gaps.
Invoking a deity or creator, whenever a scientist reach's his petering point(see- peter principle).
Tyson feels your no longer any good in the lab when you resort to the intelligent design explanation.

The entire speech is very good and goes into much more detail. I always hesitate to post these condensed clips of it ,because people always get reeled into the knee-jerk Islam reaction, the longer version shows the exact same moments where intelligent design is invoked and critical thinking stops with a long history of Christian scientists as well, the speech had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam, its about invoking intelligent design, stopping critical thought, and invoking the god of the gaps, its true within Christianity and Islam as well.

This is why you see whole communities of Texans that believe Jeebus rode purple dinosaurs.
The whole speech is posted in my "End Times" thread if you want to view it unedited, its really a wonderful lecture.
He's addressing people in that audience that are nobel prize winners and similar credentialed people in that room.
They aren't overlooking the sack of Bagdhad, they write the books you found out about that from.

9/28/2012 10:12:02 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
chrisbrz
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (15,780)
Wilmette, IL
42, joined May. 2011


I've seen Unique post her profile pic up.
To my knowledge she's a married lady as well and her husband finds some of the hatemongering quite annoying.

I seen the baldirish d*cks thread the other day, what a disgrace to DH and anyone who participated in that.

I'm a atheist-agnostic not a bigot and a incendiary hate-mongerer,
That's all that thread was/is.
Disgraceful,
I'm embarrased for the people that contributed to that.

It was very humorous to view though, because it reaffirmed why I have 90% of that clique blocked.
Most of them are Christian but one of them claims he's atheist, no way do I believe it.

An atheist would give neither of the three Abrahamic's precedence, they're the same thing, agnostics and atheist understand that.

9/28/2012 10:22:11 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


You Can Never Awaken a Man Who Is Pretending to be Asleep

9/28/2012 11:32:14 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
uniquecover
Over 1,000 Posts (1,286)
Aurora, IL
29, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from chrisbrz:
That's because your only seeing a condensed version of what is an hour long speech.


I just watched the whole lecture and first, I have to say he seems to hate Islaam more than Judaism or Christianity. Maybe being appointed for the Bush administration did that to him.

Secondly, I feel he is being dishonest with the audience. You say that the people he is addressing are of high caliber and therefore don't need to be told what other reasons there could have been for the decline (in the Western perspective) in the Muslim society in terms of academics. But when he is trying to prove that one Muslim philosopher's saying made the entire society fall, he should have been honest enough to include other, more likely, possible factors (especially when this portion comprised a big chunk of the lecture).

Thirdly, does he think that Jews don't believe in God? Because I thought that was his whole point (that scientists should not believe in Him in the first place) - but then he praises Jews when trying to point out that they have so many Nobel Prizes even though they represent a small percentage of the world's population whereas the Muslims, who represent a larger percentage, have barely any.

Fourthly, is he oblivious to what is going around the world in terms of the Muslim nations? I think they're a little too busy right now trying to survive to be too concerned with how many people from the Muslim community get the Nobel Peace Prize.

Fifthly, why does he keep saying Islaam? Islaam ENCOURAGES us to seek knowledge.

Sixthly, he could've mentioned the same thing about blacks (how many blacks have won the Nobel Peace Prize)? Does the fact that they have very few compared to the whites mean that there is something wrong in their psyche?

9/28/2012 11:35:02 PM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
uniquecover
Over 1,000 Posts (1,286)
Aurora, IL
29, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from chrisbrz:
I've seen Unique post her profile pic up.
To my knowledge she's a married lady as well and her husband finds some of the hatemongering quite annoying.


I believe you're referring to AngeliqueMuslim (not me). I've never put my picture up.

I seen the baldirish d*cks thread the other day, what a disgrace to DH and anyone who participated in that.

I'm a atheist-agnostic not a bigot and a incendiary hate-mongerer,
That's all that thread was/is.
Disgraceful,
I'm embarrased for the people that contributed to that.

It was very humorous to view though, because it reaffirmed why I have 90% of that clique blocked.
Most of them are Christian but one of them claims he's atheist, no way do I believe it.


Agreed @ first part & I have the same suspicion @ last sentence.

9/29/2012 1:08:16 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
chrisbrz
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (15,780)
Wilmette, IL
42, joined May. 2011


Okay,
I see I had conflated you Unique with Angelique, pardonMWwahZ.

But as far as the Tyson speech, first of all I'm glad you watched it.
Dr. Tyson is agnostic .
I had an entirely different interpretation than you get from that speech oddly.

I've watched it many times I know it pretty well. I don't feel he hates Islam or any other religion. But as a scientist he's railing about what happens when the scientist gives up and invokes intelligent design/creator/deity, etc.

That's god of the gaps......filling in God to account for what we don't have knowledge about, saying it mustve been God that did it.

He walks us through many examples of when this happens through history. Did you listen to the story about Newton and then later the French scientist Lapalce(spelling?) Who tells Napolean "I have no need of God in that hypothesis"?

He's saying Newton could've easily solved those problems 200 years earlier if he hadn't invoked intelligent design. That's the danger, when critical thinking ends and science resorts to God of the gaps , that's when society, innovation, learning collapses......its not a unique argument against Islam per se.

I'm glad you watched the speech but urge you to eventually give it a second look one day, its not a hate speech. Tyson actually also makes the point its happening here today in the U.S. as well. Remember the Billboard example.

Were declining out of that naming rights generation because we have vast swaths of southern states that have abandoned science curriculums.
Ensuring future generations of idiots like the ones you find in the hillbilly thread(bald D*cks) i was criticizing earlier. .

9/29/2012 1:21:41 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
heymisterchris
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,439)
Hicksville, NY
56, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from jim_a49:
I can't see uniquecovers responces he has me blocked, please copy his stuff so i can see it and respond.


She said she ain't a dude but your a lady.

9/29/2012 1:24:48 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012


Recent recurring fallacies to consider:

BURDEN OF PROOF
Saying that the burden of proof lies not with the person
making the claim, but with someone else to disprove.
The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon
anyone else to disprove. The inability, or disinclination, to disprove a claim does
not make it valid (however we must always go by the best available evidence).

APPEALL TO EMOTION
Manipulating an emotional response in place of a valid or
compelling argument.
Appeals to emotion include appeals to fear, envy, hatred, pity, pride, and more.
Though a valid argument may sometimes have an emotional aspect, one must
be careful that emotion doesn’t replace sensible logic.

FALSE CAUSE
Presuming that a real or perceived relationship between
things means that one is the cause of the other.
Many people confuse correlation (things happening together or in sequence)
for causation (that one thing actually causes the other to happen). Sometimes
correlation is coincidental, or it may be attributable to a common cause.

GENETIC
Judging something good or bad on the basis of where it
comes from, or from whom it comes.
To appeal to prejudices surrounding something’s origin is another red herring
fallacy. This fallacy has the same function as an ad hominem, but applies
instead to perceptions surrounding something’s source or context.
Accused on the 6 o’clock news of corruption and taking bribes, the senator said
that we should all be very wary of the things we hear in the media, because we
all know how very unreliable the media can be.

COMPOSITION/DIVISION
Assuming that what’s true about one part of something
has to be applied to all, or other, parts of it.
Often when something is true for the part it does also apply to the whole, but
because this isn’t always the case it can’t be presumed to be true. We must
show evidence for why a consistency will exist.

BEGGING THE QUESTION
A circular argument in which the conclusion is included
in the premise.
This logically incoherent argument often arises in situations where people have
an assumption that is very ingrained, and therefore taken in their minds as a
given. Circular reasoning is bad mostly because it’s not very good.

BLACK OR WHITE
Where two alternative states are presented as the only
possibilities, when in fact more possibilities exist.
Also known as the false dilemma, this insidious tactic has the appearance of
forming a logical argument, but under closer scrutiny it becomes evident that
there are more possibilities than the either/or choice that is presented.

9/29/2012 2:23:11 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
heymisterchris
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,439)
Hicksville, NY
56, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from jim_a49:
mr chriss, watch this, it is very good and pt 1



That was interesting. I'd like to here what the OP and unique or any other poster has to say towards that. As someone of sicilian ancestry I know my ancestors used to be under islamic rule. The word mafia is actually derived from the arabic word mahyas meaning swagger boldness or bravado. I probably have some traces of islamic blood in me from being sicilian.

9/29/2012 5:46:54 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
heymisterchris
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,439)
Hicksville, NY
56, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from chrisbrz:
.
Quote from uniquecover:
I think that he's over-simplifying this AND giving too much credit to/exaggerates Imaam al-Ghazali's influence on the entire Muslim world.

He neglects to mention that the Crusades and the Mongol sack of Baghdad (the learning center of the world at that time) all happened around that time period that he's referring to. And there are a whole lot of other factors that I won't get into because I'm aware of how long my posts get.

That's because your only seeing a condensed version of what is an hour long speech.
Actually Islam is irrelevant to his point, the overall theme of the speech.
He also gave several examples of the same thing in Christianity.

What the speech is really about is the God of the Gaps.
Invoking a deity or creator, whenever a scientist reach's his petering point(see- peter principle).
Tyson feels your no longer any good in the lab when you resort to the intelligent design explanation.

The entire speech is very good and goes into much more detail. I always hesitate to post these condensed clips of it ,because people always get reeled into the knee-jerk Islam reaction, the longer version shows the exact same moments where intelligent design is invoked and critical thinking stops with a long history of Christian scientists as well, the speech had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam, its about invoking intelligent design, stopping critical thought, and invoking the god of the gaps, its true within Christianity and Islam as well.

This is why you see whole communities of Texans that believe Jeebus rode purple dinosaurs.
The whole speech is posted in my "End Times" thread if you want to view it unedited, its really a wonderful lecture.
He's addressing people in that audience that are nobel prize winners and similar credentialed people in that room.
They aren't overlooking the sack of Bagdhad, they write the books you found out about that from.


Hey Chris did you see. D*ckey won his 19th the other nite. Looks like I'm back in business with my D*ckey for Cy Young thread.

9/29/2012 7:52:04 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  

xashax
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (49,536)
Union, NH
45, joined May. 2009


Quote from heymisterchris:
She said she ain't a dude but your a lady.


Jim it's ridiculous for someone with no photo to complain and make accusations about another member with no photo. We have to take it at face value you are an older male so she deserves the same courtesy and it really makes no difference in terms of her ability to argue the topic now does it?

9/29/2012 8:49:51 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from asanb:
Recent recurring fallacies to consider:

BURDEN OF PROOF
Saying that the burden of proof lies not with the person
making the claim, but with someone else to disprove.
The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon
anyone else to disprove. The inability, or disinclination, to disprove a claim does
not make it valid (however we must always go by the best available evidence).

APPEALL TO EMOTION
Manipulating an emotional response in place of a valid or
compelling argument.
Appeals to emotion include appeals to fear, envy, hatred, pity, pride, and more.
Though a valid argument may sometimes have an emotional aspect, one must
be careful that emotion doesn’t replace sensible logic.

FALSE CAUSE
Presuming that a real or perceived relationship between
things means that one is the cause of the other.
Many people confuse correlation (things happening together or in sequence)
for causation (that one thing actually causes the other to happen). Sometimes
correlation is coincidental, or it may be attributable to a common cause.

GENETIC
Judging something good or bad on the basis of where it
comes from, or from whom it comes.
To appeal to prejudices surrounding something’s origin is another red herring
fallacy. This fallacy has the same function as an ad hominem, but applies
instead to perceptions surrounding something’s source or context.
Accused on the 6 o’clock news of corruption and taking bribes, the senator said
that we should all be very wary of the things we hear in the media, because we
all know how very unreliable the media can be.

COMPOSITION/DIVISION
Assuming that what’s true about one part of something
has to be applied to all, or other, parts of it.
Often when something is true for the part it does also apply to the whole, but
because this isn’t always the case it can’t be presumed to be true. We must
show evidence for why a consistency will exist.

BEGGING THE QUESTION
A circular argument in which the conclusion is included
in the premise.
This logically incoherent argument often arises in situations where people have
an assumption that is very ingrained, and therefore taken in their minds as a
given. Circular reasoning is bad mostly because it’s not very good.

BLACK OR WHITE
Where two alternative states are presented as the only
possibilities, when in fact more possibilities exist.
Also known as the false dilemma, this insidious tactic has the appearance of
forming a logical argument, but under closer scrutiny it becomes evident that
there are more possibilities than the either/or choice that is presented.



LOLOLOL
Think
What you are doing is the circular falacy
Think for a second, i mean really think.
What I did with you was to offer proof, the only proof that exists in fact,
I went as far as to isolate each individual aspect, as to deal with them one at a time
and bring proof after proof to the table.
How did you react to this.
You ran away,
YOU are the one who refused to look at the proof.

Instead you protected books, that are the exact opposite of proof, new books, fantacies, with no proof.

If you refuse to look at the proof, that is presented, that does not mean there is no proof, it means you cannot be awakened, because you are pretending to be asleep/

9/29/2012 9:08:59 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from xashax:
Jim it's ridiculous for someone with no photo to complain and make accusations about another member with no photo. We have to take it at face value you are an older male so she deserves the same courtesy and it really makes no difference in terms of her ability to argue the topic now does it?


I think I have pointed out several times, on several occasions, that I really do not care if he/she is a man or a woman.

The incident happened when a muslim showed up on the site, in fact you may even remember, i don't recal the name, and we got into it.
I believe you even commented, that there were no muslims because jim runs them off, and the responce was, well he won't run me off.

I don't run muslims off bty, i just confront them head on, when I see lies that do not conform with actual text.

anyways he had a unique style of writing, a smokescreen, very educated in Islam, where he will dance around a direct question, with unrelated verses or comparisons.
I remember asking a question about muhammed and he responded with something of Gandhi.
and not a comment, an entire page of totally unrelated bullshit.
I ask questions about Islam, and the first thing he does is say well the christians did such and such..
When I demanded he stop the bullshit and respond to the questions asked, he finally ran off.
a month later he returned with his "Uniquecover", the same person, the same style of writing, the same evasion of answers, and the same false information.
The same refusal to speak of muhammed, and reffering people to modern books with the
"new muhammed" being invented for westerners.

basically he will not answer a direct question, and I can prove this any time.
he will not speak to me and he will giv you the excuse i insulted the prophet, he is probably burnng down an embasy as we speak.
He says I violated conditions of a debate, when he astually violated the first rule i laid down, and that was to provide resources and answer direct questions.
Both of which he refused to do.

Because of my studies,in Islam, i can give you, lots and lots of questions, that I guarentee he will refuse to answer, or he will make up an answer, which I will ultimatly prove wrong.
And he will block you if you persist.

we can do this if you are looking for proof of what I am saying.

9/29/2012 9:11:59 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  

xashax
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (49,536)
Union, NH
45, joined May. 2009


Okay so if gender is not an issue, as you now contend, why keep bringing it up?

9/29/2012 9:24:36 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


mainly because it was brought up, and I responded with my belief's, but I was always willing to shelve that entire aspect, and get back on subject.

There is a serious denial going on with the religion of islam, and it is things like this, trivial things, that are being used as a way of sidetracking or derailing the actual topic.

I prefer in a discussion like this, to present factual info, or what is percieved to be factual, and discuss it from there.
I want to face issues head on, with no bullshit.
direct questions, and direct answers, with refferences.
And running away because you refuse to answer questions is chickenshit.

9/29/2012 9:25:58 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Oh Asha

Did you get a chance to watch the video above.

Bll warner.

9/29/2012 9:26:22 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  

xashax
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (49,536)
Union, NH
45, joined May. 2009


What do you mean "it was brought up"? By whom cause I saw that Mr.Chris had quoted you as having mentioned it yet again.

9/29/2012 9:27:21 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  

xashax
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (49,536)
Union, NH
45, joined May. 2009


Quote from heymisterchris:
Uniquecover is a dude? Is that true Uniquecover? Are you a guy posing as a woman?


9/29/2012 9:36:42 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
chrisbrz
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (15,780)
Wilmette, IL
42, joined May. 2011


Quote from xashax:
Jim it's ridiculous for someone with no photo to complain and make accusations about another member with no photo. We have to take it at face value you are an older male so she deserves the same courtesy and it really makes no difference in terms of her ability to argue the topic now does it?

We can't really be sure of that.
The Seatle area troll entity you made this post to has been caught using a female profile in this thread.

So that particular troll could be a airplane, a bigot, a female or a closeted CD, 0 credibility should be given when we know the entity has both a male and female pro.



[Edited 9/29/2012 9:38:14 AM ]

9/29/2012 9:39:01 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  

xashax
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (49,536)
Union, NH
45, joined May. 2009


Carry on then. I just feel the topic should be addressed and these tangential insults seem to be a way of avoiding that. It is the OP's call.



[Edited 9/29/2012 9:39:20 AM ]

9/29/2012 9:41:06 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


It came up on page 26, prior to that one, in just a passing comment by mrchriss.

I just get irratated when unique sits here and spews bullshit about islam that he obviousally has to hide from me, because he knows i will comment on it and call bullshit when applicable.

9/29/2012 9:42:30 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  

xashax
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (49,536)
Union, NH
45, joined May. 2009


Yes brought up by you and no one else.

Quote from jim_a49:
LOLOL

and btw, uniquecover is a man. A muslim predator.
He was here a few monthe back and i spanked him thououghly and he ran, coming back as a woman and learned the block feature winch he used on me.
He is also the perfect example to prove what I am speaking of.
He will direct you to books that were writtin last year, which he will clain came fron original writings, which they did not.
why not read the originals you ask.
Because the originals have the real story that islam does not want you to know.

he will flat out refuse to answer any question i ask him and I can prove this to you as we speak.
I can give you questions, lots of them, that he will flat out refuse to answer, and if you ast too many times he will block you.
I have spent the thousands of hours ofer the past 7 years reading the Qur'an and sunnah,
I know what is in there.


9/29/2012 9:43:59 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
chrisbrz
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (15,780)
Wilmette, IL
42, joined May. 2011


Quote from heymisterchris:
Hey Chris did you see. D*ckey won his 19th the other nite. Looks like I'm back in business with my D*ckey for Cy Young thread.

Still some some tight races going deep into September.
What a Baseball season we've had!

9/29/2012 9:44:56 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from xashax:
Carry on then. I just feel the topic should be addressed and these tangential insults seem to be a way of avoiding that. It is the OP's call.


Mu feelings exactly,'The topic should be discussed, and when the prime contenders just sit and say I am wrong, but will not face me, to lay our facts on the table, instead talking behind my back, not only is it childish, but it is obviousally living a lie, if you are afraid to face the only documantation that exists, opting for a new invention 1400 years later.
You are obviousally not interested in anything that resembles the truth.

9/29/2012 9:48:08 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


No asha,
brought up by mr chriss in a few posts befor.
I was in the conversation and suddenly unique showed up, and I can't see what he says.
and It pisses me off when he talks shit, where in many cases I am the only one in the discussion who knows it is bullshit.
he askes her if she was cute, and i warned him, she was really a he.

9/29/2012 9:53:03 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  

xashax
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (49,536)
Union, NH
45, joined May. 2009


You said page 26 and that's where I located your post. Mr.Chris was asking you to confirm if UC was male or female so don't try to blame it on him now.

9/29/2012 10:01:37 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


No No No

I am not blaming anyone, I am the one who said it at the first chance it came up.
Mrchriss has no fault here.
He inadvertantly brought up the topic, and I entered the discussion.
This is all on me.

9/29/2012 10:02:43 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  

xashax
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (49,536)
Union, NH
45, joined May. 2009


Fine you both don't have photos so the playing field is level. Move on now.

9/29/2012 10:18:09 AM Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 7  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


ah yes,
The playing field is level, but he will not compete because he would rather cheat, and I will not allow it.