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| 9/22/2012 10:33:43 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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I found this on another thread, but I think it's perfect for you and Lowell and Allen.
Meet singles at DateHookup.dating, we're 100% free! Join now!
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| 9/22/2012 11:05:27 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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My stand on this is that I really avoid videos like this to explain Islamic text.
I have the original text here in my home, amd i have seen way to many phoney ones.
what you are intentionally avoiding is the actual text itself, favoring instead a story you find pleasing, regardless of how true it is.
You are not looking for real answers, as you have already invented your own.
There is nothing anyone can do, other than yourself, if you are looking for the real answers, and you are going in the wrong places to find them.
as I said, I have been in this way to long, and I have seen way to many phoney videos, and went to way to many phoney islamic web sites, to pull the woll that easily.
I hava and have read the actual text.
You cannot alter 1200 year old text, just because it contains stuff you do not want the west to know.
so the only answer is to hide the text, and put out the phoney stories, because most people, like yourself simply will not seek out the truth, opting instead for a pleasing story.
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| 9/22/2012 11:38:31 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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Excerpt from The Center for American Progress:
Anti-Islam Zealots Undermine American Values
"I come from Egypt,” Nasrallah told the crowd. “Egypt was Coptic, was Christians, from one thousand four hundred years, Islamic [sic] conquered our country with their lies!” The Muslims are coming,” Nasrallah continued. “They’re using taqiya” (an Arabic term describing an Islamic concept of dissimulation or deception to avoid religious persecution). “They are using deceiving. They are lying against Pamela Geller, they are lying against Robert Spencer. They are lying lying lying!”
What all of these activists share is a belief that the Islamic faith and Western culture are irreconcilable, and that conflict between the two is inevitable. Rather than a place for religious worship, they see mosques as beachheads for an invading army, and American Muslims as potential sleeper agents, willing to use any deception to transform America into an Islamic state. In addition to threatening to marginalize and alienate a growing sector of Americans, the vast majority of whom are deeply committed to American values and ideals, these false and offensive ideas communicate to the world’s Muslims that America is against them, and affirm the rhetoric of radical extremists who claim there can be no peace between Islam and the West.
Sadly, too many mainstream conservatives in our country cavort with members of the Islamophobia network in the United States such as Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, Frank Gaffney and others, lending credence to their paranoid rants and encouragement to the likes of Steve Klein and Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, who produced and promoted a video designed to spark violent reaction. Such ugly propaganda and its creators should be strongly condemned alongside those who manipulated the situation for their own political ends in the Middle East. So too should the supporters of Islamophobia who create a breeding ground for hate by denigrating one of the world’s great religions and insult the sacrifice of our military and diplomatic corps by violating America’s core value of religious tolerance."
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| 9/22/2012 11:51:58 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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The cold hard reality is that Islam cannot co exist with any other faith.
It just cannot be done and to do it is anti-islamic.
The only exceptions are the dhimmies, non-muslims living on muslim land.
These were important throughout islamic history because they paid a huge tax to be allowed to live and they were protected by the existing government.
There are no other exceptions I can think of.
Whenever it was militarily feasable the muslims went on to conquer another section.
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| 9/22/2012 11:55:07 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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The big issue here is not what the rulers of the day do,
The issue is what they are commanded to do in the islamic text.
This is why it is so important to have a knowledge of this text, to even discuss it.
rational thinking simply does not work.
Everything, at any time, reverts back to the 5 sources, regardless where they are on the evolution ladder.
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| 9/23/2012 12:08:45 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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have an excelent book called Islam and dhimminitude, writtin by an egyption doctor now in the states where he gets into depth of the treetment and expectations of the dhimmine.
One particular thing I remember is where is a muslim hits a dhimmie, all the dhimmie can do is to ask him to stop.
The other way around is jail or death.
dhimmies cannot testify in islamic courts and have virtually no rights.
It is a really sick religion and if you want personal testamony i suggest, faithfreedom.org.
This site is by x-muslims, some have found other faiths, some have not, but all will speak of the abuses of the religion.
some have death sentences on them for apostacy.
All are in the west now.
You can also ask questions, and I think this part is what might be of the most importance to you.
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| 9/23/2012 12:18:26 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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@ jim;
I will not be convinced of the validity of your intelligence insulting assesment of Islam, even if you sent me a notarised quote from Jesus himself.
You incur the same logic in your adhearance to out of context or unreliable material, as those who reason by invoking " the Bible said", and that logical fallacy has been used to ill purpose forever.
If you Insist on using this thread to vilify Islam, I will simply Persist in posting published material to counter it by illustrating Muslim culture, spirituality, values and history.
I will no longer engage reason with the unreasonable.
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| 9/23/2012 12:26:53 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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@ jim;
I will not be convinced of the validity of your intelligence insulting assesment of Islam, even if you sent me a notarised quote from Jesus himself.
You incur the same logic in your adhearance to out of context or unreliable material, as those who reason by invoking " the Bible said", and that logical fallacy has been used to ill purpose forever.
If you Insist on using this thread to vilify Islam, I will simply Persist in posting published material to counter it by illustrating Muslim culture, spirituality, values and history.
I will no longer engage reason with the unreasonable.
LOLOL
You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing.
Personally i don't care what you post.
To insult my sources is just an expression of your own stupidity.
My sources are the only sources on the planet, weather you like it or hot.
The Qur'an, and the 4 books of the sunnah.
Prehaps you could name one other source in all of islam that is accepted,
LOLOLoL
There is none,
There are addons, but the addons are just that, addons, and the 5 sources still stand.
There is nothing else I can do, I can show what to read.
I can show you where to get the material.
If you chose not to read it, it is on you, not me.
and the reading material is at your local mosque.
I am sure they will not let you take it out, but they may let you read it there.
I will close with the only conclusion i can come up with.
You are one dumb and brainwashed Mo fo.
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| 9/23/2012 1:44:55 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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LOLOL
What really gets me, is that I give you an Islamic website
This is not what you call a hate site.
This is a site put out by the religion of Islam.
This is the book of Bukhari.
It may seem like a hate site in your in rationalazation, because the verse in question describes one of the many, many, murders muhammed did, or had done.
but it is put out by the religion it self, and it is a word for word copy of the books that were writtin 1200 years ago.
it cannot get any plainer than that.
why are you having such a hard time with this.
This has gotten to the point it is laughable.
You have to get it into your head that Islam is a hate religion.
It's own sites, are hate sites,
That's what Islam does,
They kill people,
They torture people.
Muhammed was a cold blooded killer, and it is fully documented in their own religion.
and this book is nothing compared to Ishaq, and Taburi.
In 80% of the writings about muhammed, he is robbing, raping, or killing someone.
You simply cannot read about muhammed and not see this.
he was a hatemonger.
Unless of course you go to a book that was writtin last year that changes all of these suras from muhammed killing people to muhammed milking cows, or whatever.
But I am having a hard time believing you are that stupid.
Here are the original books, there are no other books on the planet.
There is no other source for all of islam.
WTF is wrong with you.
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| 9/23/2012 1:49:42 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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winxi
Saint Louis, MO
58, joined Oct. 2009
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Actually it was a pretty poor response and it's obvious why (Christians believe God revealed the Old Testament to Moses - and they also believe that Jesus is God, son of God, one in three, whatever it is. It doesn't take a genius to assume that Jesus is the one who revealed the Old Testament according to Christians).
Jesus wasn't alive during the time of the Old Testament. That means that he wasn't the one who revealed the Old Testament.
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| 9/23/2012 1:53:11 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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winxi
Saint Louis, MO
58, joined Oct. 2009
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uniquecover
1.) He spent his entire life inviting, showing and teaching others about Islaam. Yes, there were battles - battles which showed us the rules of war. No other religion, to the best of my knowledge, has any such rules.
Winx: There's no rules for war in the Bible because Christians are taught to love others and not make wars.
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| 9/23/2012 2:42:00 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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quote by uniquecover
1.) He spent his entire life inviting, showing and teaching others about Islaam. Yes, there were battles - battles which showed us the rules of war. No other religion, to the best of my knowledge, has any such rules. Islaam is not just to show us how to pray and how to fast. It's a complete way of life. It even shows us how to behave towards family members. So it's not surprising that it instructs Muslims how to behave in war (such as not transgressing which includes not killing non-combatant women and children, leaving monks & rabbis alone, not mutilating bodies, keeping to treaties unless the other side breaks them, treating prisoners of war who were not killed in a good manner etc.).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is actually a prime example of uniquecover lying through his teath, and unless a person actually reads the sunnah, they have no way of knowing this.
First of all, islam cannot even confirm Muhammed existed at all, and there is not one shread of evidence he did and lots that he didn't.
There were no rules of war.
In fact his battles were not battles they were murderous raids on unarmed settlements
I defy him to show verses where they are discussing rules of warfare, because none exist.
That is a blatant lie.
The only time he fought actual soldiers in his 15 year reign of terror he lost 7000 men.
They killed unmercifully and women were not safe
Ishaq: 676
"'You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?' Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, 'Will no one rid me of this woman?' Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet's wishes. That very night he crept into the writer's home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, 'You have helped Allah and His Apostle.' Umayr said. 'She had five sons; should I feel guilty?' 'No,' the Prophet answered. 'Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'"
Tabari VIII:179
Ishaq:550
"Among those who Muhammad ordered killed was Abdallah bin Khatal. The Messenger ordered him to be slain because while he was a Muslim, Muhammad had sent him to collect the zakat tax with an Ansar and a slave of his.... His girls used to sing a satire about Muhammad so the Prophet ordered that they should be killed along with Abdullah. He was killed by Sa'id and Abu Barzah. The two shared in his blood. One of the singing girls was killed quickly but the other fled. So Umar caused his horse to trample the one who fled, killing her."
Tabari VIII:180
"Also among those eliminated were Ikrimah bin Abu Jahl and Sarah, a slave of one of Abd Muttalib's sons. She taunted Muhammad while he was in Mecca."
Tabari VIII:181
"The Messenger ordered six men and four women to be assassinated. One of these women was Hind, who swore allegiance and became a Muslim."
i was going to get into a part of mulitatilation and there are so many it is pathatic.
I will start another comment.
Muhammed robbed raped and killed anyone he wanted and did it so many documented times, it appals me how someone like uniquecover can sit here telling lie after lie, thinking nobody will question it.
and btw, he had no prisioners of war, as I said he lost his only battle with real soldiers, his prisioners were captives, from raids, he held for ransom.
he is documented in 78 raids.
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| 9/23/2012 3:36:14 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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quote by uniquecover
1.) He spent his entire life inviting, showing and teaching others about Islaam. Yes, there were battles - battles which showed us the rules of war. No other religion, to the best of my knowledge, has any such rules. Islaam is not just to show us how to pray and how to fast. It's a complete way of life. It even shows us how to behave towards family members. So it's not surprising that it instructs Muslims how to behave in war (such as not transgressing which includes not killing non-combatant women and children, leaving monks & rabbis alone, not mutilating bodies, keeping to treaties unless the other side breaks them, treating prisoners of war who were not killed in a good manner etc.).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is where a serious problem arises with the credability of uniquecover and the reason he blocked me.
What we have above us is a totally fictious paragraph,
He made it up.
Not one single thing in the above statement is true, according to the only accepted sources on the planet, the Qur'an and sunnah.
Now I could be wrong, and will admit it if I am.
There is a lot of reading in the sunnah, and I just do not remember reading anything even close to what he wrote, in fact according to my memory, it was almost opposite what he wrote.
There is one verse about treaties that is close but it says if you "suspect" them breaking a treaty, it's ok for you to break it, but there are several where you can just break it anyway if you want to.
Now he has refused to answer ludlows question, and I am requesting he answer this one.
i am asking you to provide sunnas or verses for what you wrote.
I can be a prophet also,
my prophasy is that he will not provide any verses,
why, because none exist anywere other than his mind.
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| 9/23/2012 3:42:17 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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I want to elininate the one above where it shows how to behave to family members because there is a lot of honor killing and other types of killing within the family,and there is also love and respect.
so an answer in that catagory is not needed, but the rest of the paragraph needs to be addressed.
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| 9/23/2012 7:55:17 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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chrisbrz
Wilmette, IL
42, joined May. 2011
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uniquecover
1.) He spent his entire life inviting, showing and teaching others about Islaam. Yes, there were battles - battles which showed us the rules of war. No other religion, to the best of my knowledge, has any such rules.
Winx: There's no rules for war in the Bible because Christians are taught to love others and not make wars.
St.Thomas Aquinas has the. "Just War Theory".
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| 9/23/2012 8:52:30 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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LOLOL
What really gets me, is that I give you an Islamic website
This is not what you call a hate site.
This is a site put out by the religion of Islam.
This is the book of Bukhari.
It may seem like a hate site in your in rationalazation, because the verse in question describes one of the many, many, murders muhammed did, or had done.
but it is put out by the religion it self, and it is a word for word copy of the books that were writtin 1200 years ago.
it cannot get any plainer than that.
why are you having such a hard time with this.
This has gotten to the point it is laughable.
You have to get it into your head that Islam is a hate religion.
It's own sites, are hate sites,
That's what Islam does,
They kill people,
They torture people.
Muhammed was a cold blooded killer, and it is fully documented in their own religion.
and this book is nothing compared to Ishaq, and Taburi.
In 80% of the writings about muhammed, he is robbing, raping, or killing someone.
You simply cannot read about muhammed and not see this.
he was a hatemonger.
Unless of course you go to a book that was writtin last year that changes all of these suras from muhammed killing people to muhammed milking cows, or whatever.
But I am having a hard time believing you are that stupid.
Here are the original books, there are no other books on the planet.
There is no other source for all of islam.
WTF is wrong with you.
American Family Association President Tim Wildmon is out there again, flogging the notion that Islam is an inherently violent religion. And to do so, he selectively quotes from the Quran:
President Obama this week once again called Islam “a great religion” which has been “distorted” by a small number of “extremists” to justify committing acts of violence against the West.
But the Qur’an (or Koran) itself, the holy book of Islam, contains over 100 verses calling for violence against Christians and Jews. To give just one example, Sura 9:5 says, “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them.”
But, as with just about every claim that comes from Tim Wildmon and the AFA, the quote of Surah 9:5 isn’t exactly accurate. Surah 9:5 actually reads as follows:
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Still violent, but not quite the same, is it? And Tim Wildmon doesn’t tell you that other verses in the Quran directly contradict that one. Take Sura 6:
66. Say: “Not mine is the responsibility for arranging your affairs;
67. For every message is a limit of time, and soon shall ye know it.”
68. When thou seest men engaged in vain discourse about Our signs, turn away from them unless they turn to a different theme. If Satan ever makes thee forget, then after recollection, sit not thou in the company of those who do wrong.
69. On their account no responsibility falls on the righteous, but (their duty) is to remind them, that they may (learn to) fear Allah.
70. Leave alone those who take their religion to be mere play and amusement, and are deceived by the life of this world.
And finally, Tim Wildmon fails to quote the violent portions of the Christian Bible, such as when God tells his loyal followers to kill everyone who engages in idolatry (Exodus 32), or when God has his toadies kill off entire peoples, right down to the littlest babies (start with Joshua 6, and move on to just about every other book of the Old Testament).
The truth is that if you selectively quote any ancient document of an Abrahamic religion, be it Jewish or Islamic or Christian, you’ll find that the major deity of the book telling his chosen people to go massacre other people, even the innocent ones, in horrific fashion. If that aspect of some parts of the Quran (but not others) makes Islam a terrorist religion, then that aspect of some parts of the Bible (but not others) makes Christianity a terrorist religion.
Tim Wildmon doesn’t mention these matters because they would cool the fires of your rage, a rage he finds highly useful. When you’re angry, you’re more likely to believe the other irrational things Wildmon has to say. Also, you’ll be more likely to reach for your wallet and make a donation to Wildmon’s Holy War.
Modern-day crusaders, bearing false witness: how exasperating.
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| 9/23/2012 8:58:20 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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By FaithinAllah.org
"Islamophobes and the Extremists (Al-Khawarij) both claim all the peaceful verses of the Noble Quran are “abrogated” and thus Islam commands eternal, offensive war against all non-Muslims, even peaceful non-Muslims. But what is the true story?
Let’s examine the so-called verse of the sword. Allah Almighty says:
When the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them go on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
[Surah At-Tawbah 9:5]
It is well-known that this verse refers to the polytheists who broke their peace treaty with the Prophet as is mentioned in this Surah:
Will you not fight people who broke their covenants and plotted to expel the Messenger and attacked you first?
[Surah al-Tawbah 9:13]
The Noble Quran here explains that the reason for fighting them is because they “attacked you first.” And again the purpose of fighting is ”so they might cease” (9:12). Therefore, the only way one can interpret the verse (9:5) as a universal declaration of war on all non-Muslims is to ignore several verses, especially the verse that comes after it:
If any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
[Surah At-Tawbah 9:6]
In Arabic, the verse literally says if any of the polytheists “seeks to be your neighbor ????? then be his neighbor.” Thus, anyone who wants to live in peace and justice with Muslims as neighbors has the right to do so according to the Noble Quran, even if he does not convert to Islam. They are entitled to all the rights of the neighbor that are due in Islam, as the Prophet said:
Gabriel continued to enjoin good treatment upon my neighbors until I thought he would make them inherit from me.
[Sahih Muslim, Book 32, Number 6354]
The Noble Quran even makes an excuse for the violent polytheists, telling us that they are people “who do not know.” This is just as the Prophet said on the occasion of the Battle of Uhud, when his companions were killed and he himself was injured. Despite this, he prayed for his enemies:
My Lord, forgive my people, for they do not know.
[Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4418]
Know that this verse (9:5) is their strongest “proof” that Islam declares war on all non-Muslims. Once you see how their argument depends upon ignoring (or abrogating) hundreds of verses, you will see how they are like those people who said:
Bring us a Qur’an other than this or change it.
[Surah Yunus 10:15]
And the Prophet ??? said about them:
O my Lord, indeed my people have taken this Qur’an as a thing abandoned.
[Surah Al-Furqan 25:30]
That is because the Extremists desire to declare war against non-Muslims and Muslims who follow a different school of thought, to justify murder and robbery. So they nullify hundreds of verses from the Noble Quran which contradict their position. They are like those about whom Allah Almighty said:
O you who have believed, when you go forth (to fight) in the cause of Allah, investigate; and do not say to one who gives you (a greeting of) peace, “You are not a believer,” aspiring for the goods of worldly life; for with Allah are many acquisitions.
[Surah An-Nisa 4:94]
Observe how they refused the offering of peace not because they loved Allah and His Messenger but because they wanted to fight and earn the spoils of an unjust war. Likewise, the Islamophobes seek to justify harsh legal measures and aggressive wars against peaceful Muslims, justifying these policies by claiming a Muslim is by definition at war with all non-Muslims. May Allah guide them both to the Truth.
At this point, the Islamophobes and the Extremists will likely cite the Hadith:
?
I have been commanded to fight the people until they bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that I am Allah’s Messenger. If they do so, then there blood and their wealth are inviolable except in the dispensation of justice, and their affair is with Allah.
[Sahîh al-Bukhârî, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25]
On the surface this Hadith seems to justify their belligerent position, but why do they stop there? Do they not know what the Prophet said immediately after this statement?
Then he recited the verse, “So remind them. Indeed you are only a reminder. You are not over them a controller.” (88:21-22)
[Sunan At-Tirmidhi, Book of Tafsir, Number 3341]
Just like the verse of the sword, they fail to mention what is said next. Here the Prophet is reminding us that the purpose of fighting is not to force people into Islam but to defend the human rights of Muslims and other oppressed peoples. This Hadith is actually a proof against their position, as it proves that these verses and dozens of other verses that prohibit compulsion in religion are in no way abrogated.
But did the great scholars of Islam understand this Hadith to mean a universal war against all non-Muslims, even peaceful non-Muslims? Of course not! The Extremists and the Islamophobes gave no respect to Allah and His Messenger when they misquoted them, so why should we expect them to respect the great scholars as well? Let it be known that Sheikh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah explained the Hadith this way:
It means fighting those who are waging war, whom Allah has permitted us to fight. It does not mean fighting those who have a covenant with us (mu’ahideen) with whom Allah commands us to fulfill our covenant.
[Majmû Al-Fatâwâ (19/20)]
The Sheikh Al-Islam was not a warmonger like these Extremists, so how can they claim to be following the path of the Salaf?
Conclusion
The Islamophobes and the Extremists are allies, one to another. They both falsely claim that Islam commands offensive, aggressive, expansionist war against all non-Muslims as the normative relationship between Islam and the world. They can only achieve such a misguided interpretation by claiming – without conclusive evidence – that the peaceful verses of the Noble Quran are “abrogated” by which they mean the peaceful verses are completely nullified. They say that the peaceful verses are the specific exception and the sword verses are the general rule. However, they have this backwards: the peaceful verses are the general rule, and the sword verses are specific to the circumstances of just war.
Nevertheless, the best rebuttal to their falsehood is the authentic statement of the Prophet:
Indeed, after me there will be conflicts or affairs, so if you are able to end them in peace, then do so.
[Musnad Ahmad, Narrations of Ali ibn Abu Talib, Number 697]"
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| 9/23/2012 10:43:56 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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i have found it is a waste of time to present you with actual quranic accourances because you simply deny them without even looking.
This particular copy/paste is a typical islamic apologist reply for verses, and there is way to many to address them all, especially to someone who will not listen in the first place regardless how much evidence is presented.
If you are really interested, pick out a couple and we will analize them and put into a time frame with the atual surrounding events.
Otherwise i am not going to bother.
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| 9/23/2012 1:20:21 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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One thing you will notice with the more educated in islam than yourself, is the total absence of Uniquecover.
he has refused to respond to Ludlow or myself.
and he will not provide quotes for the statements he made, because he made the statements up, he knows it, and he knows I know it.
Go ahead and ask him to respond, not in your private mail, because he will give you a personal bullshit responce, but in public right here,
He will not do it.
This in itself, should throw up red flags, to anyone who really wants answers.
Ps there is another thing that is abused by islamic apologists all the time and it is in the Quotes you copy/pasted
You will notice, not one says the conditions of the quote, who the audience was, or the timeline of the Quote,
Nothing is mentioned if they have been abrogated, which I am sure many were,
They are put at face value in an attempt to misslead as though these things apply to all.
The Qur'an is not in chronological order and muhammed first got along with certian groups, befor he murdered them, but there is no way for you to know that.
He went on a 15 year decent into depravity, and there also is no way to know that by just picking out verses in a random order.
That is why I want you to pick out a couple and we will analize them.
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| 9/23/2012 1:51:07 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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nutsinsuits
Chicago, IL
39, joined Feb. 2012
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uniquecover
1.) He spent his entire life inviting, showing and teaching others about Islaam. Yes, there were battles - battles which showed us the rules of war. No other religion, to the best of my knowledge, has any such rules.
Winx: There's no rules for war in the Bible because Christians are taught to love others and not make wars.
what is about slavery,imperialism,conqueering all the whole planet,searching for oil,gold,diamand,and water in Mars,?
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
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| 9/23/2012 1:56:45 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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what a f**king moron.
dude, unless you havn't read the title.
This post is about islam, not judism.
Why don't you start a judism post if you want to discuss all of this.
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| 9/23/2012 4:13:09 PM |
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allen283
Salem, OH
61, joined Apr. 2012
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This is the most twisted logic I have ever heard.
There is nothing that you have said here that even resembles reality, facts, current events, or history. please try suporting these vague musings with some facts.
Here is a taste of contradictory evidence:
National Geographic: "One in every five people worldwide is a Muslim, some 1.3 billion believers. Islam is the world's fastest growing religion and it has spread across the globe."
" John Voll, Professor of Islamic History at Georgetown, notes that characteristic social structures and expressions of Islam are common in other nations from Nigeria, with over 65 million Muslims, to Indonesia with over 200 million. "This kind of distinctive locally colored Islam has been the more characteristic foundation," he said, "and the more puritanical Muslims have to cope with the fact that the baseline is really more accommodationist. This is what's involved in Indonesia."
Islam came to Indonesia with merchants who were not theologians but simply practicing Muslims who people looked to as an example. There were also Sufi teachers who were quite willing to create devotional exercises that fit the way people in Sumatra or Java already practiced their faith.
The two largest Muslim groups in Indonesia today, and perhaps in the world, are Muhammadyya and Nahdlatul Ulama. Each of them has over 30 million members, and each began as local reform movement rooted in the promotion of a more modern education within the framework of Islam."
Just because someone write what you like, does not make them right, the things you post
are man's way not Gods way, so you post what is poplar and that's where you are lost.
Can't you think for yourself instead of posted so many writings of someone else.
The reason you can not connect with what i post, is because i don't follow what is poplar but i follow what is un-poplar because there is where you will truth but that's to deep
for you to understand. Islamic beliefs are twisted, open your eye's.
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| 9/23/2012 9:58:53 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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After ignoring a number of insults, I believe that I have earned the right to get a bit personal now.
Ok fellas I'll give it to you straight. I'm not a muslim.
I have been exposed to a number of religious and spiritual ways in my short life. And I find it ignorant and repulsive to condemn a group of people becuase of a label they wear (their religion). It is not only wrong, unethical and illogical, It's dangerous.
You frighten me as much as the guy on tv with a gun screaming "death to america" frightens me. You frighten Muslims as well, and fear creates reaction.
I can guess at your motives. I can believe that you have been seduced into believing that it's important to protect your country or faith by being vigilant against the Islamic threat. I believe that you are sincere.
That's what frightens me the most.
You are fomenting violence with your words, and that is as much a threat to me as that angry terrorist you despise. You and your fellow bigots will lead us into WWIII with your rhetoric, and sit back while young men pay the price.
I have been taught that there is a core of spiritual truth in every religion, and in every human being, and I truly believe in that. I also believe that about You.
I have found that there are a**holes and beautiful people in the world. Race, religion, color and wealth have nothing to do with the sorting order on character.
You are convinced that Islam is rotten at it's core. Go ahead and believe that. I will not convince you otherwise.
But also be aware that there is a price to pay for causing harm to others, even if it is just thier reputation, when it is done falsely. If you are trying to make yourself tall at other's expense you will see the world from your knees.
Hatred rots a person from the inside. Please be mindful of world that you are creating.
I would recommend a visit to your local mosque. Have the balls to shake hands and get to know a few beleivers personnaly.. I rather suspect that you will find them to be like any other person, except that they will be more hospitable than you expect.
Salaam alicum.
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| 9/23/2012 10:09:11 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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allen283
Salem, OH
61, joined Apr. 2012
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I am causing no one any harm, they have the right to believe what they want and so
do you and so do i. Does their beliefs or your beliefs bring me any harm ? No !
Islamic beliefs are twisted and that's a fact and so is many other beliefs. We
don't live in a perfect world.
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| 9/23/2012 10:33:39 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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There is a post in CE%P
the true bloody history of Islam. everyone needs to watch it.
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| 9/23/2012 10:35:22 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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Dude
The problem is not with muslims, especially here and now in america.
The problem is with Islam, and what it produces.
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| 9/24/2012 3:43:08 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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There is a post in CE%P
the true bloody history of Islam. everyone needs to watch it.
Does it look like this?
Pretty nasty isn't it.
I didn't watch Mel Gibson's "torture of Christ " Movie either.
Based on your description, I'll pass, thanx. I just don't need anymore BS in my brain right now. I can't shower that off.
When I watch negative propaganda hate stuff, it kind of makes a mental stench, about the same as reading your relentless repetative negative posts. Why don't you copy the embed code, and and post it in your own thread?
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| 9/24/2012 6:17:36 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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nutsinsuits
Chicago, IL
39, joined Feb. 2012
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A Common Word between Us and You is an open letter, dated 13 October 2007, from leaders of the Islamic religion to leaders of the Christian religion. It calls for peace between Muslims and Christians and tries to work for common ground and understanding between both religions, in line with the Qur'anic commandment to "Say: 'O People of the Scripture! come to a common word as between us and you: that we worship none but God'" and the Biblical commandment to love God, and one's neighbour. In the time since its release, "A Common Word" opened an interfaith dialogue between Christians and Muslims. It is unprecedented in its scope in both the Christian and the Muslim worlds.[citation needed] In 2008 the initiative was awarded the "Eugen Biser Award", and the "Building Bridges Award" from the UK's Association of Muslim Social Scientists.
"A Common Word between Us and You" is a follow up to a shorter letter, sent in 2006, in response to Pope Benedict XVI's lecture at the University of Regensburg on 12 September 2006. This lecture, on the subject of faith and reason, had focused mainly on Christianity and what Pope Benedict called the tendency in the modern world to "exclude the question of God" from reason. Islam features in a part of the lecture. The Pope quoted a Byzantine Emperor's strong criticism of Muhammad's teachings. Pope Benedict clarified that this was not his own personal opinion, describing the quotation as being of a "startling brusqueness, a brusqueness which leaves us astounded."
Throughout the world, however, many people thought the Pope's use of the quote insensitive. A very strong sense of injustice was expressed by many Muslims in response to the speech. One month later, 38 Islamic scholars, representing all branches of Islam, replied to Pope Benedict in "An Open Letter to the Pope," dated 13 October 2006. One year later, 138 Islamic personalities co signed an open letter entitled "A Common Word between Us and You." The letter aimed to promote interfaith dialogue.
http://www.acommonword.com/index.php?lang=en&page=option1
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| 9/24/2012 7:31:33 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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lololol
First of all, I didn't post it, one of the ladies here did.
It is an excelent set of 2 videos of real history,
Of course real facts, are of little intrest to people who nurse fanticies.
I pointed it out, because in his very well made lecture he, for some reason says some of the exact same things, almost word for word, that I have said.
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| 9/24/2012 12:32:33 PM |
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uniquecover
Aurora, IL
29, joined Jul. 2012
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Jesus wasn't alive during the time of the Old Testament. That means that he wasn't the one who revealed the Old Testament.
Hey, I never said Christianity made sense (specifically the trinity concept). Islaam teaches us that Allaah was not begotten nor does He beget. He has always been God - there has not been a single moment when He ceases being God. And He is the ONLY God, He does not have any partners.
[Edited 9/24/2012 12:33:25 PM ]
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| 9/24/2012 12:41:48 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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allen283
Salem, OH
61, joined Apr. 2012
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Hey, I never said Christianity made sense (specifically the trinity concept). Islaam teaches us that Allaah was not begotten nor does He beget. He has always been God - there has not been a single moment when He ceases being God. And He is the ONLY God, He does not have any partners.
Allaah is not the name of the most high God but man gave Him many names because
no one knows His name.
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| 9/24/2012 1:03:35 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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Quote from uniquecover:
Hey, I never said Christianity made sense (specifically the trinity concept). Islaam teaches us that Allaah was not begotten nor does He beget. He has always been God - there has not been a single moment when He ceases being God. And He is the ONLY God, He does not have any partners.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Fail, there are over a couple thousand gods on the planet at any givin time.
Allah is the muslims God.
allah is not the God of the christions, hindu's, norse or jews.
and it is easy to tell when a person does not believe in his own religion, when the only he can speak of it, is not by the merits of the religion, but rather belittling another religion itself.
BTW both of you should watch the vids that xgotreal posted in her thread.
The bloody history of Islam.
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| 9/24/2012 1:10:02 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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allen283
Salem, OH
61, joined Apr. 2012
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Quote from uniquecover:
Hey, I never said Christianity made sense (specifically the trinity concept). Islaam teaches us that Allaah was not begotten nor does He beget. He has always been God - there has not been a single moment when He ceases being God. And He is the ONLY God, He does not have any partners.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Fail, there are over a couple thousand gods on the planet at any givin time.
Allah is the muslims God.
allah is not the God of the christions, hindu's, norse or jews.
and it is easy to tell when a person does not believe in his own religion, when the only he can speak of it, is not by the merits of the religion, but rather belittling another religion itself.
BTW both of you should watch the vids that xgotreal posted in her thread.
The bloody history of Islam.
Islamic beliefs are twisted and who is the one who twisted all things ? The evil one !
If anything i would have to say, that the Islamic beliefs is what the evil one
has taught, so one can called him Allah or Satan or the evil one, all the same.
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| 9/24/2012 1:12:57 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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Nobody can nail down exactly when the beliefs were invented.
It is attrubuted to a guy maned muhammed in the 7th century but that has been proven wrong, and the closest we can date it is late 8th and early 9th century.
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| 9/24/2012 1:15:56 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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uniquecover
Aurora, IL
29, joined Jul. 2012
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Allaah is not the name of the most high God but man gave Him many names because
no one knows His name.
1.) Maybe you don't, but we do know some.
How? Because He gave us many of His Names/Attributes in the Qur'aan and authentic narrations of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
2.) You're a Christian, right? So you should know that Christian Arabs also call God (the Father) Allaah.
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| 9/24/2012 1:34:45 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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allen283
Salem, OH
61, joined Apr. 2012
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1.) Maybe you don't, but we do know some.
How? Because He gave us many of His Names/Attributes in the Qur'aan and authentic narrations of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
2.) You're a Christian, right? So you should know that Christian Arabs also call God (the Father) Allaah.
You can give God the Father any name you want but that does not mean it's His name,
it's just names man made up.
I am a righteous man and the most righteous man we know of is; Christ and He made
it clear, no one knows the name of God the Father. So i speak what Christ spoke,
i pray to God the Father for all things not Allah or any other name.
If you say you know the name of God the Father, then you make Jesus a liar but
i can assure you, Jesus was not a liar.
[Edited 9/24/2012 1:36:28 PM ]
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| 9/24/2012 1:39:36 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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Quote from uniquecover:
1.) Maybe you don't, but we do know some.
How? Because He gave us many of His Names/Attributes in the Qur'aan and authentic narrations of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
2.) You're a Christian, right? So you should know that Christian Arabs also call God (the Father) Allaah.
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
You're putting the cart befor the horse,
there is not one single thing in the Qur'an or sunnah, you can authenticate
Don't you think you should authenticate it befor you dwell on it, especially when it comes to killing people.
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| 9/24/2012 1:49:29 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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uniquecover
Aurora, IL
29, joined Jul. 2012
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You can give God the Father any name you want but that does not mean it's His name,
it's just names man made up.
Believe that. But I believe in the Qur'aan as the final, preserved Revelation of God's (Allaah's) and therefore, I know who I will be believing (i.e. not you).
I am a righteous man and the most righteous man we know of is; Christ and He made
it clear, no one knows the name of God the Father. So i speak what Christ spoke,
i pray to God the Father for all things not Allah or any other name.
Jesus peace be upon him was a Messenger and slave of God's and nothing more. He is amongst the 5 best Messengers to have been sent by God (Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad peace & blessings of Allaah be upon them all). And it seems on this we agree (that he was nothing more than a human). At least you're closer to monotheism than other Christians.
If you say you know the name of God the Father, then you make Jesus a liar but
i can assure you, Jesus was not a liar.
I agree, Jesus (peace be upon him) would never lie about Islaam because if he had dared to (as a Messenger), God would have struck him dead in a split second as He told us He would do to Muhammad (peace & blessings of Allaah be upon him) if he had done any such thing.
And if he (Muhammad SAW) had forged a false saying concerning Us (Allah), (Al-Haqqah 69:44)
We surely should have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might), (Al-Haqqah 69:45)
And then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta), (Al-Haqqah 69:46)
And none of you could withhold Us from (punishing) him. (Al-Haqqah 69:47)
So where does that leave us? That the Bible was corrupted and man changed Jesus' message and started worshipping him instead of worshipping the One Who created him. Men changed the Words of Allaah for a low price (as is mentioned in the Qur'aan) - and it's apparent. The Bible is so full of irreconcilable contradictions that it's obvious that it is no longer the Word of God.
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| 9/24/2012 2:15:38 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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Quote by uniquecover
So where does that leave us? That the Bible was corrupted and man changed Jesus' message and started worshipping him instead of worshipping the One Who created him. Men changed the Words of Allaah for a low price (as is mentioned in the Qur'aan) - and it's apparent. The Bible is so full of irreconcilable contradictions that it's obvious that it is no longer the Word of God.
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
that kind of logic is simply insane.
we know the bible is not acurate in many places, but that does not automatically default the where it makes the Qur'an valid.
The Qur'an is proven corrupted far more than the bible.
From the mysterious origins, to the destruction of others, to the blatant proof of plagerism, to the constant errors, scientific and medical, etc.
The Qur'an was supposidly writtin in a time where at least one of the originals should exist, instead the only ones are writtin in a language that wasn't even invented untill 200 years later,
Every single direction you look at the Qur'an you can prove corruption.
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| 9/24/2012 3:15:28 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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allen283
Salem, OH
61, joined Apr. 2012
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I agree, Jesus (peace be upon him) would never lie about Islaam because if he had dared to (as a Messenger), God would have struck him dead in a split second as He told us He would do to Muhammad (peace & blessings of Allaah be upon him) if he had done any such thing.
And if he (Muhammad SAW) had forged a false saying concerning Us (Allah), (Al-Haqqah 69:44)
We surely should have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might), (Al-Haqqah 69:45)
And then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta), (Al-Haqqah 69:46)
And none of you could withhold Us from (punishing) him. (Al-Haqqah 69:47)
So where does that leave us? That the Bible was corrupted and man changed Jesus' message and started worshipping him instead of worshipping the One Who created him. Men changed the Words of Allaah for a low price (as is mentioned in the Qur'aan) - and it's apparent. The Bible is so full of irreconcilable contradictions that it's obvious that it is no longer the Word of God.
There is corruption in Islamic beliefs and there is corruption in Christian beliefs, so
it is difficult to know the truth.
Jesus only spoke on behalf of His Father and i serve the Father and by doing so, as
Jesus followed the Father and as i follow Jesus, we both are following the Father, as
we walk together in the same Spirit, the Holy Spirit of the Father.
Islamic beliefs were already here when Jesus came and when Jesus spoke on behalf of
God the Father, Jesus spoke of a better way and the Islamic believers became offended
because what Jesus spoke was not the Islamic beliefs. So the word Christian was use
for those who did not follow the Islamic beliefs. No man nor woman knows the name of
the most high, so we simply called Him as Jesus taught we ought to do, God the Father.
God spoke the message to Jesus and Jesus spoke it to mankind.
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| 9/24/2012 5:35:07 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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Since I am blocked from posting on that thread, before my first post, I will bring Jim's magical answer to the question of Islam to this thread, where all and sundry can comment:
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| 9/24/2012 5:41:41 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
|
Dude
The problem is not with muslims, especially here and now in america.
The problem is with Islam, and what it produces.
So there is no problem with the muslims, even though they are following, according to you, a prophet with no morals and is absolutely corrupt.
What is that old saying now about the fruit of the tree? If Muslims are generally
Moral and ethical and concerned with remembering god, and lots of other clearly demonstrated good, then how can it be that the religion is corrupt?
So what does Islam produce, Jim?
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| 9/24/2012 5:58:49 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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So there is no problem with the muslims, even though they are following, according to you, a prophet with no morals and is absolutely corrupt.
What is that old saying now about the fruit of the tree? If Muslims are generally
Moral and ethical and concerned with remembering god, and lots of other clearly demonstrated good, then how can it be that the religion is corrupt?
So what does Islam produce, Jim?
since islam only has a few places it comes from it will produce the fruit of what it preachesactual.
Go to that thread I mentioned, it is very informative and factual,
It also answers that question you just asked.
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| 9/24/2012 6:08:14 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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Quote from asanb:
So there is no problem with the muslims, even though they are following, according to you, a prophet with no morals and is absolutely corrupt.
What is that old saying now about the fruit of the tree? If Muslims are generally
Moral and ethical and concerned with remembering god, and lots of other clearly demonstrated good, then how can it be that the religion is corrupt?
So what does Islam produce, Jim
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Look at the world around you and you will see what it produces, open your eyes.
poverty, ignorance, slavery, child sexual, abuse, thievery, murder,
Read about muhammeds life from orginal sources, and there it is.
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| 9/24/2012 8:35:27 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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Article by Bill Warner: “IS A NICE MUSLIM A GOOD MUSLIM?” A Response
Sunday, 14 February 2010
Mark Jenkins
Excerpt:
"Warner contends that the Qur’an does not include the “Golden Rule,” common to all the world’s religious traditions. He is incorrect. Examples of references to the “Golden Rule” in the Qur’an are as follows: “Woe to those...who, when they have to receive by measure from men, exact full measure, but when they have to give by measure or weight to men, give less than due.” The Qur’an commands: “Those who show their affection to such as com to them for refuge and entertain no desire in their hearts for things given to the (latter), but give them preference over themselves.” “None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.” “That which you want for yourself, seek for mankind.” "The most righteous of men is the one who is glad that men should have what is pleasing to him, and who dislikes for them what is for him disagreeable."
Warner is incorrect in his assertion that those who do not believe in Muhammad are kufrs. For Muslims God’s Word is the Qur’an. Muhammad is the messenger of the Word, rather than the Word itself. The Qur’an insists that Muslims should not differentiate among the Prophets of God. Each Prophet was sent by God with guidance, and the primary message of each Prophet is the same. The Qur’an says that the later Prophets came to confirm the messages of the earlier Prophets, but also that the details of the messages differ. The idea that every messenger comes with a message that is specific to the people to whom he was sent, and that differs from other religions, is deeply rooted in the Islamic consciousness. It is reflected in the titles that are customarily given to the great messengers in Islamic texts. In some Islamic countries there is a belief that all religions accept the first shahadah, but that each religion has a second shahadah different from that of Muslims. Thus Christians might say: “There is no god but God and Jesus is the spirit of God.”
Warner asserts that most of the Qur’an is about kafrs (sixty one per cent he alleges). This is incorrect. Most of the verses of the Qur’an are neither about Muslims, nor about kufrs, but about God and previous prophets. Other parts of the Qur’an deal with legislation, the Ten Commandments, and The Golden Rule. In terms of violence there are, unlike the Old Testament of the Bible, no references to total war as contained in the Books of Deuteronomy and Judges. To be frank, it is just not a useful exercise for someone as ignorant about the Qur’an, as Warner clearly is, to attempt any kind of analysis of its sacred texts. The Islamic tradition requires people to be educated over a period of many years before they are judged fit to make any kind of educated comment about the Qur’an. Such an education requires the individual concerned to have a through grasp of Arabic, and be trained in the use of non linear texts and Semitic dialectic. Anyone who attempts to understand the Qur’an within the boundaries of the dualistic, Cartesian conditioned mind is going to make serious mistakes. It is a pity that Warner does not have the intellectual humility to understand this. Understanding the Qur’an requires a degree of purity of heart, and poverty of spirit that is rarely indeed.
Warner alleges that: “action against kufrs is jihad.” This is incorrect. He does not understand the meaning of jihad. A common translation of the word jihad is “Holy War.” This is highly misleading. The Qur’anic use of the word jihad is very broad. The basic meaning of the verb is “to struggle.” The Qur’an often uses the word struggle along with the expression “in the path of God.” The path of God is the path for right conduct that God has set down in the Qur’an and in the example of the life of the Prophet Muhammad. Submission to God entails a struggle. Receptivity to God’s command requires people to be active towards all the negative tendencies in society, and within themselves and which pull them away from God. Submission to God, and struggle in His Path go together harmoniously, and neither is complete without the other. Salat, zakat, fasting and hajj all entail struggle. It takes an enormous inner effort of will to submit to an authority that breaks not only with one’s own likes and dislikes, but also with the pressure of society to conform to the crowd. It is often said that jihad is the Sixth Pillar of Islam. Struggle in the path of God is a necessity for all Muslims. It is fundamentally not about the imposition of violence on “unbelievers.” "
"Warner’s article is deeply flawed in its analysis and should not, therefore, be regarded as a serious comment on Islam. Quite clearly, he does not understand the intellectual principles which underpin Sacred Tradition across the world. He does not appear to have any knowledge of the principles necessary for an effective understanding of the text of the Qur’an. Islam is fundamentally a religion of peace. Furthermore, it is extremely irresponsible for someone to propagate the kind of clichéd misunderstandings about Islam that Warner does in his article, given that much of the current violence in the world is the direct result of such misunderstanding. The world desperately needs commentators able to penetrate beyond the veil of misunderstanding that prevents the world’s Sacred Traditions from being understood for what they really are. Warner is quite clearly not in this category. Consequently, his article is yet another example of an analysis which is the fruit of a distorted lens. Warner’s world is one in which the world’s Sacred Traditions have their inner meaning twisted and contorted to a point where they are no longer the instruments of peace, harmony and unity for which God has intended them to be. Matthew 7:16 says: “By their fruits you shall know them.” The fruits of Bill Warner’s work indicate that, quite clearly, he does not know what he is talking about."
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| 9/24/2012 8:58:55 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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Look at the world around you and you will see what it produces, open your eyes.
poverty, ignorance, slavery, child sexual, abuse, thievery, murder,
Read about muhammeds life from orginal sources, and there it is.
Please indicate what places presently that these conditions exist. I know of no country where these activities are legal.
Also, please present direct evidence of cause and effect, where the Islamic practices directly cause any of the above mentioned crimes/ conditions.
Poverty and ignorance can create these conditions anywhere, so I would be interested in how you see it that It is the current religious practices that are at fault.
Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation a negative or inferior image. This can be also any disparaging statement made by one person about another, which is communicated or published, whether true or false, depending on legal state. In Common Law it is usually a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant).
So far you have barely managed to avoid this by repeatedly accusing Mohammed of these crimes, and you do not mention his followers- directly. But your first line does, by inference. In this one quoted statement above you have commited slander, by legal definition.
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| 9/24/2012 9:06:07 PM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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FAil.
slander is wrongfully making accusations and comments.
Everything I have ever said about the murdering thieving sexually perverted muhammed is true according to islams own writing.
I could back that up in a courtroom.
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| 9/25/2012 2:57:54 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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You ignored the rest of my post. What about what you have said about Muslims. And don't tell me that you have not said anything about them, you have.
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Look at the world around you and you will see what it produces, open your eyes.
poverty, ignorance, slavery, child sexual, abuse, thievery, murder,
Read about muhammeds life from orginal sources, and there it is.
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Please indicate what places presently that these conditions exist. I know of no country where these activities are legal.
Also, please present direct evidence of cause and effect, where the Islamic practices directly cause any of the above mentioned crimes/ conditions.
Poverty and ignorance can create these conditions anywhere, so I would be interested in how you see it that It is the current religious practices that are at fault.
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| 9/25/2012 3:23:59 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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Do you know why i am ignoring the post, I am sure you do, as I hve told you befor.
When i am speaking about these things, and you see something you do not agree with i expect you to point it out and we can discuss it.
Your pattern has been to whine , but not isolate anything.
Now you come up with a stack of things you expect me to prove.
I am not about to spend the next 5 hours researching incidents and writing a 5 page novel that you will not read anyway.
i am a lousy typist in the first place, and have already writtin out dialogues that you simply ignore.
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| 9/25/2012 3:25:05 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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Now if you want to pick out one of those topics we can expound on it.
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| 9/25/2012 3:26:41 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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And also Jim, What is it that you think should be done to "clean up" this viral epidemic of religious criminals?
I quote you:
"You have to get it into your head that Islam is a hate religion.
It's own sites, are hate sites,
That's what Islam does,
They kill people,
They torture people. "
If Islam begets rape and murder and pediphilia as you say, then for the sake of peace and securuty, it must be in the best interest of everyone that these people be Identified ( perhaps with a patch sewn on thier clothing), and that they be rounded up.
And we could have a book burning of Korans like the world has never seen, so that the book stops corrupting our youth.
What say you, Jim? What is the "Final Solution" for the Islam problem?
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| 9/25/2012 3:43:20 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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Quote from asanb:
And also Jim, What is it that you think should be done to "clean up" this viral epidemic of religious criminals?
I quote you:
"You have to get it into your head that Islam is a hate religion.
It's own sites, are hate sites,
That's what Islam does,
They kill people,
They torture people. "
If Islam begets rape and murder and pediphilia as you say, then for the sake of peace and securuty, it must be in the best interest of everyone that these people be Identified ( perhaps with a patch sewn on thier clothing), and that they be rounded up.
And we could have a book burning of Korans like the world has never seen, so that the book stops corrupting our youth.
What say you, Jim? What is the "Final Solution" for the Islam problem?
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Now we are getting somewhere
The identification is not the people,
the identifying factors are writtin in the religion itself.
Lets take pedophillia and sex crimes.
These are rampant in islam.
Muhammed was a pedophile, there is no Question to that. it is writtin in islamic text he was a pedophile.
Whatever Muhammed did was OK.
So we have a society that buys and sells young girls to old pedophiles.
religious leaders marrying children,
Khomeni at 35 married a ten year old.
he was caught raping a 4 year old in a tempory marriage.
You may have whoever you desire, ( I forget where but i can look it up.)
when muslims go to civilized countries, the sex crimes hit the roof.
Why is all of this.
it is because the writings of the religion itself, allow and promote it.
That is where the problem lies, all of the problem. ;
we can attach this logic to any of the problems that arise in islam.
you have pedophiles in any religion, in fact religion attracts them,
They have the trust of the parents and kids, and doors are open for the pedophils.
Look at the problems with the catholic clergy and pedophiles.
The big difference here is that in civilzed countries, the perpatraters go to jail.
In islam pedophilia is legal, and they have commited no crime.
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| 9/25/2012 3:47:40 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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asanb
Sanbornton, NH
61, joined Jul. 2012
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When i am speaking about these things, and you see something you do not agree with i expect you to point it out and we can discuss it.
Your pattern has been to whine , but not isolate anything.
Here it is jim- Take some responsibility for your own words repeatedly posted here.
I "don't agree" with bigotry and Slander, and I am calling you out.
You are guilty of defamation. Have the balls to own it.
Yor last post proves it beyond a shaddow of doubt.
So what is your real intention here, Loking into the future, what is Jim's answer?
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| 9/25/2012 3:53:21 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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My answer is you are doing the exact same thing i have accused you of doing, and that is ignoring text and then coming back later claiming something else entirly.
Now back up for a second, a couple posts, and we can draw a conclusion on pedophilia and sex crimes, and then we can move on.
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| 9/25/2012 3:58:45 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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and what i am doing here is proving there is no slander whatsoever.
Right now we are on sex, and next we can go to thievery or murder, i will let you pick, but we will resolve this befor we take one more step.
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| 9/25/2012 4:08:09 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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nicecathy
Bellevue, WA
47, joined Aug. 2012
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And I want to point out, your muslim buddies will not help you on this, even though I encourage them to do so.
Uniquecover is online right now, get him to help, he will not.
In the process of what i am going to prove, i am also going to prove the constant lying to infidels, promoted within the religion.
The problem here is that the muslims here, know exactly what i am doing, and they will not help you.
Nice religion, huh.
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| 9/25/2012 4:12:40 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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sorry, at my ladyfriends place now, and jumped on her computer.
And I want to point out, your muslim buddies will not help you on this, even though I encourage them to do so.
Uniquecover is online right now, get him to help, he will not.
In the process of what i am going to prove, i am also going to prove the constant lying to infidels, promoted within the religion.
The problem here is that the muslims here, know exactly what i am doing, and they will not help you.
Nice religion, huh.
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| 9/25/2012 4:22:10 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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Here is the other main problem, and that is your intentional smoke screen.
When i try to discuss this topic, I do not allow room for mistakes, on either side,
I demand refferences and i provide them.
when their is contraversey, we stop and analize it.
That is the only way to come up with any type of conclusion.
Now here we are, at step one, and you are slinking away, but i am sure you will have another comment unrelated, a few days from now.
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| 9/25/2012 4:47:11 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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You see what is happening.
right out of the gate you accuse me of slander.
You know the deffinition, and it is UNTRUE statements.
Now i am throwing inormation on the table, and we didn't even have to get as far as the documentation to prove it.
Dead silence
My take on this is that you are fully aware muhammed was a pedophile and you cannot bring yourself to admit it, so you run and hide.
That is all well and good, whatever floats your boat, but don't sit here and call me out accuse me of slander, if you are just going to run away.
If we were in a courtroom.
You just lost your case.
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| 9/25/2012 5:05:05 AM |
Islamic Education: Origins of the faith | Page 6 |
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jim_a49
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010
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My contention is that muhammed was a thieving, lying, murdering, sexual pervert, and i just proved it to you.
There is no slander or defamation.
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