Could you support that claim with evidence? since you recently lied about your short lived christine7778 profile being deleted by admin for rule violations, I don't trust anything you say---not as I, or any other sane, well balanced person trusted your blatherings before.

According to what uniquecover posted, it appears that it is the ARABS who have corrupted the law, in which case I can NOT support Islam.

but it was UNIQUECOVER who said Torah was abrogated.

If I am to take your word, then uniquecover's claim is invalid.

THIS is why I am agnostic.

In the Name of Allaah



Allaah (God).



I think that's in the Bible. Allaah DOES say that the Qur'aan confirm what was in the original Torah and the Bible. But no where does He tell us to follow the laws of previous nations.

We do not follow the sharee'ah (Islaamic law) of Moses or Jesus (peace be upon him), rather, we follow the sharee'ah of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This does not mean that our creed is different, just that there are some different rules. Our fundamental beliefs have always remained the same. We all believe in Allaah, His Angels, His Books (Psalms of David, Injeel (the original Bible), Torah (the original), the Qur'aan, etc), His Messengers, the Day of Judgement, and Divine Decree.

That has never changed. What can change are some rules.

I mentioned the alcohol example before and now I'll give you another one. The law sent down to Moses was to pray facing Jerusalem. Allaah then abrogated that ruling and told us to pray facing the Ka'aba in Makkah. Just because we do this now does not mean that we say that Moses and his people were wrong (I seek refuge with Allaah). It just means that there Allaah gives different laws to each nation (that has a new Messenger sent to them). Once a new Messenger is sent with new rules, it is incumbent upon the followers of the previous Messenger to follow the new Messenger (as well as the new laws that are revealed to him) if they are still alive.



Well, even within the Qur'aan, there are verses that have been abrogated (by God, obviously). It doesn't make it any less God's Words.

And abrogating doesn't mean that the belief in God has changed - just that the laws have been abrogated.



As Muslims, we believe that every one of those Messengers was a Muslim (submitter) to the will of Allaah. They all believed in Him and called people to worship Him. They made sure to tell people that no other deity is worthy of worship except Him. So of course they have the same faith. Just not the same laws.

Secondly, the Qur'aan clearly points how the People of the Book corrupted the original scriptures. So that's another reason why we can't follow the Torah anymore - it is no longer purely the Word of God (nor is the Bible).

Here is what Ibn 'Abbas (may Allaah be pleased with him), a companion of the Prophet, said,


Narrated Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!" [Saheeh Bukhaari Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461]

Thirdly

And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur'an) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allah willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allah; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ. (Al-Ma'idah 5:48)


Anything correct I said is from Allaah and anything false is from me or Shaytaan (Satan)

quote from uniquecover even within the Qur'aan, there are verses that have been abrogated (by God, obviously)

I don't understand that.

If Muhammad was the FINAL messenger of God, and the Qur'an (NOT the TRANSLATION, as I understand the WRITTEN translation is NOT considered the ACTUAL Qur'an, since apparently is MUST be recited, which by the way, pretty much what the Jews did with the Scribes and Pharisees, they replaced the WRITTEN Torah, with their ORAL TRADITIONS) is GOD's word, then HOW can any of the verses be abrogated?

What MAN has the AUTHORITY abrogate the QUR'AN?

Or are you saying Muhammad revealed the Qur'an, and then later abrogated some verses?

Which would not make sense because WHY would God need to CORRECT himself?

This doesn't make sense.

And considering this God you are speaking of, has changed his mind three times, to get to islam, and then in a 15 year period changed it over and over, again and again.
And they didn't even write it down intill long, long, after muhammeds death.

sounds like pure bullshit to me.

How can you even say muhammed is last messenger, suppose God changes his mind again.

It should be noted that naskh only occurs to divine commands and prohibitions. Naskh cannot occur to statements of fact, because such statements are either true or false, so to say that a previous report has been abrogated really means it was either a deliberate lie or an error, both of which may not be attributed to Allah.

Therefore, descriptions of Allah's attributes, the stories of the previous prophets and their peoples, parables and descriptions of the hereafter are all excluded from the category of naskh. Likewise, the divine promises and warnings are excluded, because Allah doesn’t break His promises. Nor could one call it naskh if Allah promises the believers gardens in paradise in an early verse and in a later verse promises them the pleasure of seeing Him. The promise of gardens has not been replaced by the promise of seeing Allah; rather, both will happen.

It should also be noted that the underlying principles of worship and moral behaviour have not changed through the ages. Salah, fasting, charity and pilgrim-age have been constant practices of Allah's religion—no matter which prophet was delivering the message—and lying, murder, adultery, cheating, etc. have been condemned by all the prophets. Therefore, the area in which naskh operates is in details of the format of a religious practice or a social law, not in the core principles.

From Usool at-Tafseer - The Methodology of Qur'anic Interpretation by Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips:

1. IF that is the case then there are NO other "People of the book" are there?

Since if there is NO PURE copy of Torah available.

2. So basically you are saying that Arabs(the keepers of the teachings of Muhammad and the Qur'an)) are INCAPABLE of coruption.

They MUST be, because you believe that the Qu'ran is still PURE, after all these THOUSANDS of years.

I thought he only recieved ONE revelation, the Qur'an.

So you're saying God used the angel Gabriel to reveal the Qur'an, but later PERSONALLY communicated and made revelations to Muhammad?

If whenever Muhammad spoke about Islaam, it was not of his own desires but something that God revealed to him., then tha t would mean God is CORRECTING himself, by ADDING to or SUBTRACTING from what he had PREVIOUSLY revealed to Muhammad.

That CAN'T be the case, because God, is INFALLIBLE.

God does not need to come back and REVISE himself.