Well tnt - I see you are still putting up a smoke screen and also trying to put words in my mouth. I have never said or implied that everyone is already saved by the shed blood of Jesus only. Of course it is only common sense that we should try our best to live a life that would be pleasing to God. I said Jesus allowed Himself to be crucified So We Would Have A Way (which is thru His shed Blood) for our sins to be forgiven.

You ask if I believe the teachings of Moses, the Prophets, the 12 true Apostles, etc., so if (as you claim) that Jesus' shed blood has very little or nothing to do with the remission of our sins then what else is the (true) apostle John referring to in (1st John 1:7) when he is telling us that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanest us from all sin?

Quote from tnteacher101:



Equal: I don't find anyplace in the Bible where Yeshua or the true 12 Apostles taught that Yeshua's mission was to die for our sins.

Steve



Isaiah 53:5,6: "But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all!"

NOTE: Jesus is called the **LAMB** 28 times in Revelation!

Revelation 5:6,8,9: John a **TRUE APOSTLE** said, "Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the Throne...He came and took the scroll from the right hand of Him who sat on the Throne, And when He had taken it, the four living creatures and the 24 Elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints, And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals, because You were slain, and **WITH YOUR BLOOD** you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation!!"

Revelation 1:4,5: John, a **TRUE APOSTLE** said, "Grace and peace to you from.... Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness.... to Him who loves us and has **FREED US FROM OUR SINS BY HIS BLOOD**, and made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve His God and Father--to Him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen."

I Peter 1:18,19: Peter, a **TRUE APOSTLE** said, "For you know that it was not with perishable sins such as silver and gold that you were **REDEEMED** from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but **WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST**, a Lamb without blemish or defect!!"

Ephesians 1:3-8; 11: Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with **EVERY** spiritual blessing in Christ. For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and **BLAMELESS** in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His **GLORIOUS GRACE**, which He has freely given us in the One He loves. In Him we have **REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, the forgiveness of sins. in accordance the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.....In Him we were also **CHOSEN** having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will!

Ephesians 2:4-10: Because of His great love for us, God,, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is **BY GRACE** you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might show the incomparable riches of His grace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is **BY GRACE** you have been saved, through faith-- and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the **GIFT** of God--**NOT BY WORKS**, so that no one can boast For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do!

Hebrews 9:26-28: But now He {Jesus} has appeared once for all at the end of the ages *TO DO AWAY WITH SINS BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF**. Just as man is destined to die once , and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people.

Hebrews 10:8-10: First He said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor were You pleased with them." Although the law required them to be made. Then He said, "Here I am, I have come to do Your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus once for all!!

Quote from tnteacher101:

Prop: Yes, I know most people were not obeying Yahweh's Laws and Commandments and when Yeshua came and lived on this Earth He set the perfect example for us in that he showed us that we must get back to following/observing/doing Yahweh's laws and Commandments. Yeshua plainly showed us that by observing Yaheweh's Blessed Laws and Commandments that we too could follow His perfect example and in doing and following Yesahua's example and patterning our lives after Him we would be able to enter into Yahweh's Rest/Paradise/Heaven. Yeshua never, ever, backed down from following those more than important Laws and Commands. Yeshua had to pay the ultimate price of being crucified for the stand that He willingly took. We must follow and imitate Yeshua while living on this Earth. Yeshua was our perfect example. The heathen and lawless Paul attempted to switch the mission of Yeshua to a mission of dying but Yeshua's mission was living and giving us the perfect example to follow. Moses the Prophets, Yeshua and the true 12 Apostles all agreed with each others teachings and they spoke with one voice. Paul was the loner and his heathen and lawless teachings did not agree with the teachings of the Patriarchs of the Bible so we must avoid the lawless teachings of Paul and follow the Blessed teachings of those true Patriarchs of the Bible. In order for us to be accepted into Yahweh's Rest/ /Paradise/Heaven we must follow the Blessed and wonderful example of Yeshua and do the Will of Yahweh by obeying His Laws/Torah and Commandments.

Steve

Steve you are truly morally and spiritually insane if you really believe Jesus taught that we should keep on killing people for all those OT reasons and if you truly believe people should again be killed for all the following OT reasons I suggest for the sake of your neighbors you begin with yourself.

They are only still in effect in the mind of morally and spiritually insane people like you, Steve. You are seriously mentally ill and/or corrupt, Steve. If you actually believe what you say then go see a rabbi and tell him to kill you for working on the Sabbath. You are truly a corrupt NUTCASE.

KB: It is slightly difficult to help someone that is resistant to learning the truth of Yahweh's Word. I am fearful your concentration on the Urantia Book has cause you to get on the wrong path and has caused you to not be as interested in reading the true Bible as you should be. If you will pray for wisdom I think you may be able to get back on track. It will take a lot of hard and difficult work on your part buy I don't think it is impossible. It appears to me that you have never, ever, read the Old Testament. I have found very few flaws with the Old Testament and lots and lots of problems with the New Testament. We must recognize that Yeshua used what we now call the Old Testament because it was the only Bible that was available at that time. If there had been problems with the Old Testament I would think that Yahweh would have warned us. Since Yeshua gave no warning about the Old Testament then I would guess that Yeshua approved of it.

Steve

It is utterly illogical and absurd to believe that Jesus who taught the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of man; who gave us the "golden rule" to live by (Matthew 7:12) that while giving the "Sermon on the Mount" that right after He just got through laying down the laws of "Blessedness" that he was telling His disciples to keep on killing people for all those OT reasons.

Again, are you so insane that you need Jesus to have warned you that it is wicked ungodliness to kill your son if he curses you? Or kill your daughter if she is not a virgin on her wedding day? Or, to kill non-believers, and kill those who disobey the priest, work on the Sabbath, or are homosexuals, etc., etc.?

Would you kill your son or daughter or your neighbors for these reasons, Steve? Do you believe you should be killed for working on the Sabbath? Who is going to kill approximately 90% of the human race for all these reasons? No one would be left but the mass murderers and you are a complete idiot to believe what you advocate because this is what those who killed Jesus believed.

You are truly a incorrigible nutcase if you want to kill people (even yourself you idiot)regardless of the laws of civilized society like the OT Pharisees did.

God is like that firm but fair boss you know or knew at work. For those who love Him, keep His commandments, join His true religion (the Catholic Church), and do good works, they inherit the "blesseds" of the sermon on the mount---blessed are the poor in spirit, the meek, the pure, the humble, the peacemakers, etc. For those who don't love Him, or don't keep His commandments, or prefer some man-made religion, or fail to do good works, wind up like the rich man in the Lazarus-rich man parable.

TNT, I was referring to KB's comment here, not yours. I was trying to show KB that God can be both just and mericiful at the same time, like a firm but fair boss.

It was understood by all the apostles that G-d's Torah never changed or was replaced. We know this from the teachings of Yeshua -- heaven and earth will pass away before one yod or stroke from written Torah will (Matt 5:17,18).

It is utterly illogical and absurd to believe that Jesus who taught the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of man; who gave us the "golden rule" to live by (Matthew 7:12) that while giving the "Sermon on the Mount" that right after He just got through laying down the laws of "Blessedness" that he was telling His disciples to keep on killing people for all those OT reasons.

Again, are you so insane that you need Jesus to have warned you that it is wicked ungodliness to kill your son if he curses you? Or kill your daughter if she is not a virgin on her wedding day? Or, to kill non-believers, and kill those who disobey the priest, work on the Sabbath, or are homosexuals, etc., etc.?

Would you kill your son or daughter or your neighbors for these reasons, Steve? Do you believe you should be killed for working on the Sabbath? Who is going to kill approximately 90% of the human race for all these reasons? No one would be left but the mass murderers and you are a complete idiot to believe what you advocate because this is what those who killed Jesus believed.

You are truly a incorrigible nutcase if you want to kill people (even yourself you idiot)regardless of the laws of civilized society like the OT Pharisees did.

You make the common mistake of confusing God's mercy with weakness, KB. God is not the pushover you think He is.

KB: Do you agree with what Low and the Catholic Church believes about Transubstantiation? Low said that they think the bread and wine turn into the actual flesh and blood of Yeshua when they have communion. I don't believe a word of it. I think it is symbolic only.

Steve

Jesus said, "This is my body" and "This is my blood". In the sixth chapter of John He says that if we don't eat His Body or drink His Blood we don't have life in us.

The scribes and Pharisees thought that the idea that we must eat Jesus' Body and drink His Blood a hard saying. After they heard it many of them quit following Jesus (see John 6:60). Apparently you too think it's a hard saying.

The early Christians, as far back as we have records, believed that the bread and wine literally turn into Jesus' Body and Blood. See the writings of Ignatius of Antioch (martyred circa 110 a.d.).

And what a beautiful thing it is.