People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back 256

1/13/2008 12:43:48 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
tat2big1 Crescent City, CA age: 34	LASTRADICALDUDE: A while back you posted this: ----------------------------- I am considering posting my questions on spiritlessons.com and see if any of Elise's cohorts can and will logically answer them. Anybody want to take bets? ------------------------- I think that I'll check it out too!! Religion is full of lies and holes!!!
1/13/2008 12:51:28 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Tat, I don't mind if she uses thos words, and I don't think that is what you are saying either. It is sad that she can't honestly answer simple questions without resorting to preaching a mini sermon. I don't even have a problem with a sermon once and awhile. But when that become the common mode of operation to avoid answering questions such as the ones I have posed, that strikes me as dishonest and evasive. Oh well......When she regains the courage to speak again she'll come back on line. At least that is how it appears, and if I am wrong then I sincerely apologize beforehand. Lastrad
1/13/2008 1:06:23 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
tat2big1 Crescent City, CA age: 34	ELISE7: HAPPY READING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I DID A LITTLE DIGGING INTO REAL TRUE FACTS!!!!!!! "God is a being of terrific character...cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust." Thomas Jefferson "Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?" Job 4:17 "Should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a schoolbook? Its morals are pure, its examples are captivating and noble." Fisher Ames, Massachusetts Congressman (1758-1808) "...Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints." Revelation 15:3b "...texts from the source we call Holy Scripture have been used in the past to defend the divine right of kings and to oppose the Magna Carta; to condemn Galileo and to assert that the sun does indeed rotate around the earth; to justify slavery, segregation and apartheid; to keep women from being educated, entering the professions, voting or being ordained; to justify war, to persecute and kill Jews; to condemn other world religions; and to continue the oppression and rejection of gay and lesbian people." Bishop John Shelby Spong "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 "The Bible has been used for centuries by Christians as a weapon of control. To read it literally is to believe in a three-tiered universe, to condone slavery, to treat women as inferior creatures, to believe that sickness is caused by God's punishment and that mental disease and epilepsy are caused by demonic possession. When someone tells me that they believe the Bible is the 'literal and inerrant word of God,' I always ask, 'Have you ever read it'?" Bishop John Shelby Spong. DID YOU READ IT OR IGNORE IT BECAUDE YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE IT?
1/13/2008 1:11:19 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Tat, don't hold your breath. They haven't answered me yet. There was no chat forum, and the e-mail address was someone in charge of sales I think. Although who knows, such outfits often sell books and they may think that I am a new fish on the string. Lastrad
1/13/2008 1:17:06 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
tat2big1 Crescent City, CA age: 34	AAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe she is a soliciter!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRYING TO MAKE HER COMMI$$ION!!!!!!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444 god god god god god god god god god god god god god god god god god god god god 444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ GOOD RIDENCE THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
1/13/2008 1:39:13 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
jewelz5 Monteagle, TN age: 53 online now!	Elise: God has the right to judge us because He created us There is no judgement from the creating God force of the universe, that would be to undermine its very nature. That is just plain ridiculas....the sheeple like to believe in fairytales of gods judgements because they are walking around in the dark, emotionally dismembered searching for their missing halves. and He has all the right to our lives. You are the only one that has a right to your life. You are the one that is totally responsible for being here and for your entire life. There is no getting out of it alive and no one is going to save you. No one or nothing else ( god ) can take that right away from you, unless of course, you just give your life away voluntarily to something outside of yourself like a dummy because your government told you so. Your master slave handlers love you and they decided that is what you needed to do for them, in order for you to have a place in their prefabricated heaven where you get a box lunch and porta potties. We are just stewards of such life. Ding ding ding...yes indeed, you got that right! finally something makes sense! Take the word 'Just' out of your sentence next time. And if we are not careful enough for that privileges then we can lose that privileges. You better believe it, because you have unknowingly and unwittingly traded away your sovereign power, for priviledges and benefits from big daddy and company. Now, if you don't behave properly he can certainly take those priviledges away from you. That would not mean that big daddy wants you to quit paying your taxes, so he can fund more benefits for you, in order to keep you happy, for your diehard loyalty to his fairytale. And big daddy loves you for it. He's powerful and we can only have power thru God and people which can be taken away anytime. The people already have the power by their very nature freely given from the God force. God is not taking anything away that God created, what kind of dumb stuff is that. Unlike God, His power is endless. You are really getting out there, perhaps close to going over the edge and loosing it, if you already haven't. If this so called God created man in the image and likeness of himself or itself, then how can man be 'unlike' this God. Do you remember the theme music for the televsion series called the twilight zone by chance. No one is giving that power to Him. Because He's is the Power and the source of it. You were given the power by the mere fact that you are here, you were made in the same likeness of the source of it all, everything, you are now responsible for it, as the source of that power. Unfortunately, you are blindly giving it away to a demonic gangster cabal who are laughing their asses off at what they can get you to believe. So that would make you power-less. Big daddy needs you to be getting all your time sucked up chasing around a God that doesn't exist because they took your mind away from you, so you could not exercise the power inherent within yourself, to be and act like the powerful god being that you were intented to be. Even our searching and questions about God is limited and has ending. Sometimes we don't know why we are in a situation that we don't wanna be in, but God is Sovereign, He knows what is going to happen. The God force in the universe does NOT know what is going to happen anymore than you do, he is not a fortune teller because the God force is only in the present...and does not know what the future holds, because it is in 'your' hands to decide what you are to do with your life and no one else. He (she) gave your life to you, for you to figure that out for yourself on your own so you could be a big girl and make intelligent decisions for yourself. Unfortunately, you had no chance to make that determination, because it was taken away from you at a very early age and it was replaced without your knowledge with what you now are facing, Alise in Wonderland getting a total and complete Vaccuum Job, by the Wizard of Oz, the man-god behind the curtain. Pretty scary huh, I think you need to drop to your knees for me and start praying like crazy. [Edited 1/13/2008 1:57:54 PM]
1/13/2008 1:40:48 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Has anyone here besides me ever had this conversation or one similar to it with anyone? How do you know the Bible is true? "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 But how do you know that that part of the Bible is true? "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 I know you said that, but how do you know that part is true? "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 You already said that, so how do you know that part is true? "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 Are you kidding me? No. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 But how do you know? "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 You said that, but how do you know The Bible says, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 and that's good enough for me. So because it is written in the Bible you claim to know it's true? "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 So what about the parts that contradict and say opposite things? Well those parts are unimportant because"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 Some parts are unimportant? Well...it's the message of Jesus that's important, and...."All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ....and that's all that matters. Do you realize that you are reasoning in a circle? Doesn't matter "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Why ain't we all laughing? It's really sad folks. Lastrad [Edited 1/13/2008 1:43:40 PM]
1/13/2008 7:51:01 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
elise7 Calgary, AB age: 38	lastra, I grew up in a Catholic family. My mother was a devout Catholic. I used to see my grandfather (my father's side)reading the Bible when I was 10 years old. And my grandmother who goes to a different church (Iglesia ni Cristo). Both of them are really into God and the Bible. I remember my grandfather telling me that the Bible is for adult not for young person like me. He said that because when you're young you cannot undersand its contents. I attended mass every Sunday, and say my rosary daily every night. And then my cousin became a Christian who has a drug addiction that time, until he testified about salvation thru Jesus Christ and we saw his changes in his life. He changed from being a drug addict to God's servant sharing the gospel to anyone. That was when i was in high school. Back then, I accepted the Lord as Saviour and God. Not until I fully understand God's Word when i studied university. We had a Bible study every week after our classes. Became active in the church well. Until I graduated and work, I slowly became a "Sunday Christian" and most of the time forgot to pray and read my devotional book. But when i decided to move in Canada there was a miracle that happened to my family. God gave my family a big financial blessing beyond my imagination of Nov 2002.That time my uncle and his family are struggling financially. I asked God on why are we still struggling considering that we are in Canada - the land of opportunities. I started praying for them, (that time my uncle has been laid off because one newly hired guy told the manager that my uncle was sleeping, that he's suppose to work during that time). Considering that my uncle been working in that company way longer than this newly hired person. During this time also, they asked for my help but they also knew that i also need financial help. And also their mortgage has been 2 months past due and the bank is asking for their payments or they will get more penalty for late payments. Long story short, September of 2002, i went to my church here in Calgary and started praying. Then at the altar after the church service i asked the old lady Joanne who is involve in the prayer ministry to pray for my uncle and family's situation. Two months after (Novermber 2002), God gave us a huge amount of money beyond my imagination. I cried and cried and cried because God really works in a very mighty way and He still works miracles whether we admit it or not. My church knows what happens. My uncle believed too that it came from God and all in the family does. We all cried and just hug each other of this blessing that came upon my family. Even my family back home was surprised when they learned about this blessing. Until now,that blessing helped me and my family here in Canada and back home to trust God no matter what. No matter what insults people would say to God,I cannot afford to believe them, because i myself and family has been blessed and experienced miracles from our loving God. That's the reason why i am willing to share God's word at any cost, because God gave His best, whether people will believe my testimony or not. All I know is God is a powerful, faithful and merciful God who loves us so dearly if we will just call Him. He loves to hear and answers our prayers, because he longs for our fellowship as well. So those people who are against God, this is my testimony. I will tell this as long as God wants me to. May God bless us with His love. elise7
1/13/2008 7:59:17 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
elise7 Calgary, AB age: 38	tat, The thread is about people who have gone to heaven and hell and came back. If you don't want to listen to God's Word, you are free to leave the discussion as you please. This is isn't about one person's interest, this is God's interest. He is using this forum to straighten some of the misinterpretations in the Bible. I don't say that I have the answer to all of our questions, I am relying fully to the Bible and God to show us the answer. This is a normal discussion. When you're dealing with God, expect extraordinary things to happen in light of the Gospel. That is my expectations. And because God wants us to be enlightened by His words, He is going to reveal Himself to us. elise7
1/13/2008 8:14:39 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
elise7 Calgary, AB age: 38	lastra, you said: Elise I did that "Whosoever" John 3: 16 stuff years ago. As bad as I wanted it to work, it just didn't last. Does that mean I am going to hell? You have to believe in God alone. That the redemptive work of God thru Jesus Christ is enough for your salvation. Salvation is costly, it cost God's Son to die on the cross. So when God decided to sent Jesus for the payment of our sins, He is really serious. WE have to believe that. That nothing (even our good works, our education, temporary things) cannot be comparable to the sacrifice of His Son on the cross. Remember Jesus said, It Is Finished. Our salvation is complete and God was satisfied for it. During the Old Testament time, in order for people to be forgiven of their sins, priest has to go to the tabernacle and offered first fruits of their harvest, best sheep and oxen, cereal offering. Now that kind of offering has been replaced by Jesus sacrifice death on the cross. So we don't have to do the offering of animals over and over again. One sacrifice and one salvation once and for all. That brings us to God, reconciled, cleansed and redeemed by the precious blood of the Lamb. elise7 I believe that God will deal with mentally retarded people in a different way. Because this people doesn't have a normal understanding and reasoning like normal people have, i believe that they will pass God's judgement. He is a just God. So i believe he's going to weigh every man's life. Really it's all in God's discretion. elise7
1/13/2008 8:38:53 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
elise7 Calgary, AB age: 38	tat, I guess you don't care about your soul right. The only book that would talk about a man's spiritual destiny is the Bible and God. God is the author of our life. Why because, he originated it. It seems too that you trusted too much in this world to give you the answer to your life's questions. Only God can and will answer your life's questions, if you will just let him. We are only temporary here on earth, there is a promise to those who obey God and His words which are eternal life and just to be in God's dwelling place. I like to be God's place, because here on earth it's all confusion, chaos, war, conflicts and not to mention that we have to deal with our shortcomings, weakness and oh yeah, the old issue of sin. As well as satan and his dominions as well. I thank God for His ways are not our ways, even our thoughts are not His thoughts. People who puts their confidence in man and in this world will one day regret it. I will rather obey God than man who is a sinner and who continously opposes God in any possible means that doesn't even have the power to save himself from hell and satan. If you know your God and the Bible, you can't be easily swayed by false teachings, because you know the truth and it's testimony who is the Lord Jesus Christ elise7
1/13/2008 8:39:47 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Elise you said, God gave us a huge amount of money beyond my imagination. Now did God drop it down from heaven in a money bag or just what were the particulars on how you acquired this money from God? If you could prove that God did this there is a man that will pay 1 million dollars for proof of a miracle of that sort. Sounds a little fishy to me. You didn't win the jackpot did you? Lastrad
1/13/2008 8:44:52 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
elise7 Calgary, AB age: 38	lastra, I don't need you or anybody else to believe me. As far as i know we are enjoying God's blessings. And God was delighted to see that in my family. elise7
1/13/2008 8:50:09 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Elise you posted, I don't need you or anybody else to believe me. As far as i know we are enjoying God's blessings. And God was delighted to see that in my family. elise7 Now why all the subterfuge and evasiveness in just saying where the money came from? Do you doubt in your heart that others will see your supposed miracle from god as something else? Maybe what it truthfully is? Lastrad [Edited 1/13/2008 8:51:56 PM]
1/13/2008 8:52:10 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
elise7 Calgary, AB age: 38	lastra, First of all, can you identify the god that you you are talking about here. In one of your comments you said that you don't believe the God of the Bible. This is real fishyay that you don't believe in the God of the Bible. So what kind of God do you believe in. This is really fishy, big time. Because in order for you to continue studying the Bible, you must believe that the Bible talks about God. So my question for you is what kind of God do you believe in apart from the God of the Bible elise7 If you can answer that honeslty i appreciate it.

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