People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back 181

1/11/2008 8:26:52 AM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
elise7 Calgary, AB age: 38	tat, You can have your science and I can have the Bible. Because the Bible is the written word of God. Your science can't even save you from the fires of hell and its punishment. Be stubborn in your will and if you don't want to be warned, you already made judgment for yourself like others here in the forum. As Pharoah was so stubborn in letting the Hebrews go so they can worship God, even to the point decided to bring about 10 plagues. Until one day, he submitted to God and accept God's requests. For people to realize their mistakes and follow sometimes need 'disciplines' from God. I think you would like this to happen to you, you're not even afraid to what God can do to your soul. We are His creation, we are not God. So don't put your position as being God. God is holy and we are sinners, saved only by His mercy. We actually deserved hell but He made the way. But we just can't grasp the truth. Because people's minds are hardened like Pharoah, but you see there will be an ending to stubborness. It needs hard lessons just to prove that God is true and He is in control of everything. So sad that it has to go through this. elise7
1/11/2008 8:44:54 AM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Elise you posted, Unless Jesus Christ is in your heart and life, then you'll be able to understand Spiritual things. Since you have Jesus Christ in your life, maybe you could help me to understand this by answering the following two questions. The Bible teaches that Heaven was originally created a perfect place until the rebellion of Satan and his followers. Like wise the earthly paradise was perfect until Satan in the form of a Serpent decieved Eve and she persuaded Adam to also accept the deception. 1. Now if Heaven was such a happy, perfect and blissful place, then how could or why would such perfect Creations such as Satan (and a third of the angels) rebel against it? 2. And if everything in the earthly paradise was perfect, then how could or why would God cast Satan down to earth to either decieve or allow him to decieve his perfect human Creations living there? 3. Wouldn't God have been able to foresee the inevitable necessity of casting many of his beloved human Creations into hell if they were decieved into following Satan? I don't understand this. Lastrad
1/11/2008 10:51:16 AM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
skunkbreath Saint James, MO age: 88	elsie, "You can have your science and I can have the Bible" That position is somewhat hypocritical in that every aspect of modern life is here because of the evolution of the sciences and in spite of the retarding element of those who would impose their narrow interpretation of their "holy book". While being critical of science, the believers take advantage of modern society and science! Even the Amish, who distain the modern world, use some of previous "science" in their daily life , and a few sects have adopted more modern ways. In short, hypocracy of the split mind desperate to hold on to a comforting delusion. Or, if science is from god, a denial and a disappreciation that god is working in that way in our lives today!!!.. Which is it, the unappreciation of god's work through mankind manifested by science, or the hypocracy of picking and choosing which science to use, because it is convenient, and which science to disregard, because it is inconvenient?
1/11/2008 12:06:54 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
stormbay Tasmania Australia age: 62	Just as God answered my prayers the other day. He is going to answer my prayers for your soul. That God will enlighthen your dim eyes thru situations, people and circumstances. God will one day stopped you from being so naive about God and His authority over your soul. The reason you never stop defending yourself is because He's putting up with you. He is so patient to not punish you. I hope you won't regret it when that time comes It's aright elise, I understand your problem, it was being born wasn't it, you can't handle it at all. Typical of the psychopathic, you desperately force your inadequacies upon others, trying to blame them for what clearly is a big problem for you. It is you who is defending all the time, babbling incoherently and dragging out worthless scripture after scripture to try and cover up your complete lack of knowledge of the world and life. It must be terrible to be so inadequate, so insecure and fearful that you can't event talk to anyone any more in a sane manner. You along with you ignorant ilk have only one recourse, you threaten people constantly that gods wrath will bring them down, hows it working so far for you. From your attitude, you fit the common known psychiatric syndrome of a dangerous psychopath, who would resort to violence to prove what is an untenable situation you have got yourself into in life. You certainly are deeply enslaved, God will one day stopped you from being so naive about God and His authority over your soul. really, it hasn't happened for anyone else on the planet yet. If it had, then there would be no killing in his name, nor debauched preachers nor insane nutters running round gibbering, 'god is great he is going to zap you'. The only ones doing the zapping on this planet are the followers of god, that's a fact and it has been since the inception of yahweh. To make matters worse for you, other believers point out your ignorance of scripture yet you just babble on with nonsensical gibberish. Your so obsessed with this nut case who claims to have been to hell and back, yet what he says goes against all biblical writings. But I bet the wacko is making huge amounts of money and you like the gullible sucker you are, are feeding his wealth and debauched mind. Still you'll get support from the other nutters as they are to frightened to point out how bizarre you are, as it may mean they will have to accept believers are completely wacko. For them to do that opens up their own inadequacies, so you all resort to threats and accusations, whilst truth and sanity goes out the window in all aspects of your life. Your right, knowledge and science is irrelevant to you, as you don't understand anything outside primitive superstition. All the prof you need as to the veracity and caring love of this myth expresses is in your holy lands, the birthplace of god and the mythical jesus, are and have been since it's inception a land of ongoing carnage and war, as described throughout the OT. The facts are, every place the belief in god has been introduce and always under threat or violent invasion, so the war zones have spread until now we see a large proportion of the world in religious conflict, as they attempt to destroy all opposition, even other yahweh factions. So really Elise, the more you say the more stupid you make yourself out to be, but it's good fun and keeps us all smiling, as we would do when faced with a spoilt ignorant child. Have a nice day and may god bring you the vengeance you so surely seek, upon yourself. As will surely happen when your mind completely collapses. You should join opus de, they are into physical self abuse and it would suit your mind set.
1/11/2008 12:34:07 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
elise7 Calgary, AB age: 38	storm, I don't have a problem with sciences, what i dont' like is how you respond when it comes to justification about God. Even science was created by God. You can't even comprehend that. You prove to the entire forum how really callous, cold and ungrateful you are. You have proven it in this forum, time and time and again. God bless you elise7
1/11/2008 12:45:18 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	What have I proven to you by the questions I directed to you on my post before this one? Do I need to repeat them? Lastrad
1/11/2008 1:23:48 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
tat2big1 Crescent City, CA age: 34	I SECOND THAT LASTRADICALDUDE! Like stormbay was saying , she doesn't answer our real questions with logical answers, she only rambles on about god and the babble...oops, I mean bible. ELISE7 still didn't directly answer my questions either. Instead she rambled on some story about a pharoh and the 10 plagues. I have heard that legend in Sunday school too many times. Thank you skunkbreath, you old whipper-snapper. ELISE7, you are sounding quite self righteous. If you are so smart and god is so smart, then how come he can't give you thoughts, knowledge, and wisdom to answer our questions without getting your granny panties in a ruffle and contradicting yourself?
1/11/2008 1:29:36 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
stormbay Tasmania Australia age: 62	I don't have a problem with sciences, what i dont' like is how you respond when it comes to justification about God. Even science was created by God. You can't even comprehend that. You prove to the entire forum how really callous, cold and ungrateful you are. You have proven it in this forum, time and time and again. There you go again elise What you can't comprehend is your god doesn't exist except within your failing mind and the deep seated fear you have of reality. If god created science, then you would agree with all its findings, outcomes and its ability to verify and determine truth from fantasy. It does that with the belief in god, the books of the bible and the actions, expressions and scientific history of the cult of yahweh. Now you can't have it both, ways, on one hand you condemn and denounce science because it doesn't reflect what you want to see. Then because you can't defend your stance rationally or with fact, you do the typical psychopathic thing and change sides, trying to claim what you have just denounced as being ungodly and false, was made by god. Of course I'm callous and cold to those who fervently support stupidity and their violent despotic insanity they call the belief in god above the common good . They deserve it, as they know deep within their minds they are just clutching at invisible straws. If your god was such a kind, healing and loving theory, then it would be used within the psychiatric, psychological clinics and as counselling throughout the world. It isn't and never will be except by those who have been trained in biblical psychology, which fails under every test and creates more places in the mental institutions than any other ideology on the planet. Those elise are the recorded statistical facts, the more fervent the god cult, the more adherents there are suffering mental illness. As we see in the suppression and fear of reality and science you all hold. Still I do know they allow patients to use the internet now days, good fun isn't it.
1/11/2008 1:56:38 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
missette Knoxville, TN age: 65	Elise 7--- They want us to answer their question.The only book (The Bible)is what we have to answer them out of.How in the name of God can we answer them when they don't beleive the Bible in the first place , even if we give them the scripture they don't care so we have to let the blind lead the blind. Like the human gave us the computer(like God doesn't know every thing a human does).God gives us the first breath we breath and he'll take the last breath we breath.Besides if we proved God and the Bible was real it would be a fact and not faith. We came in by faith. Heb. 1:1-- Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. Heb.11-6--It is impossible to please God without faith. So Elise7 I guess we're pleasing God.Keep the good work up. All the sign's are pointing towards home and he definately coming soon. I watched 23 min.in hell and thats what the Bible says will happen if you don't beleive in God. Don't worry God doesn't want any one to come to him just because they are afraid of going to hell. He lets you see this cause he don't want you to go there .GOD loves ya and so do I--- Missette
1/11/2008 2:06:34 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Tat2, from time to time throughout this thread Elice has recieved pats on the back for her steadfastness in presenting her message. There are as most of us know by now a fearful group of Christian watchers who just ocassionaly have anything to say, yet all along they are reading and watching these threads. Isn't it strange that neither Elise nor her supporters can answer three simple questions? Yet they want us all to believe that they have the answers for us. They even claim that these answers can only be known to the Believers by the Spirit, yet as concerned as they claim to be for our souls they withhold those answers from those of us they claim to need it most. Why should we believe the delusional fantasies of those who claim to have experienced heaven and hell when they will not disclose to us Spiritual answers that we seek? I am considering posting my questions on spiritlessons.com and see if any of Elise's cohorts can and will logically answer them. Anybody want to take bets? Lastrad [Edited 1/11/2008 3:53:38 PM]
1/11/2008 2:14:20 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
lastradicaldude Lamar, CO age: 53	Missete, why will you take the words of some Bill over the words of the one you claim as Saviour? Luke 16;26---31 Yashua says, "26": And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. "27": Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: "28": For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. "29": Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. "30": And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. "31": And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. So why is it that you and Bill think that one who rose from the dead will have such an effect now? Didn't Yashua rise from the dead? If people don't believe that, why do you suppose they will believe the story of some 21st century Bill? So does God do this in every generation to give everyone an equal chance of being persuaded by such an inspiring story? People have been known to believe fabulous stories before. Look at Joseph Smith and the Mormons for instance. Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum. Sung to the tune of Old Mac Donald had a farm. All together now please. Lastrad
1/11/2008 2:32:37 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
stormbay Tasmania Australia age: 62	Heb. 1:1-- Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. Heb.11-6--It is impossible to please God without faith. English translation, Hebrew 1:1 “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,” Hebrew 11:6 “But without faith [it is]impossible to please [him]:for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and[that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” Both these English translations I've posted, don't reflect the original Greek but will suffice to show you how intelligent you aren't. The problem you face, is you don't even know what the book you worship contains and have to resort to induced fantasy. So why would anyone want to discuss something which you don't have a clue about, other than from the brain washing you've had in your macabre churches and delusional interpretations of folk stories. I for one would certainly be happy to debate the facts surrounding scripture, but not the ranting of nut cases who clearly don't even know the real wording or meanings about what they quote, in their sad attempt to make sense of their senselessness.
1/11/2008 2:41:58 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
missette Knoxville, TN age: 65	Las-- I beleive your quote about the rich man was before Jesus died.I beleive Jesus was telling the truth No one in hell can get out and you or me can't go down and get them out(Bill Weise didn't say he brought anyone back out of there did he? )and i beleive he said Jesus took him to hell and brought him back out .I don't think i want to disspute that after all Jesus has been in hell before and he brought a few out with him that time.What say you? Missette
1/11/2008 2:50:25 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
missette Knoxville, TN age: 65	Oh yell Jesus was talking about in Moses day and now he still wants us to warn people not to go there .We don't have to be afraid of the devil and his angles and demons they have to bow to Jesus I'm just saying anyone who doesn't know Jesus should by all means be afraid very afraid without JESUS there is No Isaid No pertection from them!
1/11/2008 3:00:05 PM	People who have gone to heaven and hell and came back
elise7 Calgary, AB age: 38	lastra, you cited: Since you have Jesus Christ in your life, maybe you could help me to understand this by answering the following two questions. The Bible teaches that Heaven was originally created a perfect place until the rebellion of Satan and his followers. Like wise the earthly paradise was perfect until Satan in the form of a Serpent decieved Eve and she persuaded Adam to also accept the deception. 1. Now if Heaven was such a happy, perfect and blissful place, then how could or why would such perfect Creations such as Satan (and a third of the angels) rebel against it? 2. And if everything in the earthly paradise was perfect, then how could or why would God cast Satan down to earth to either decieve or allow him to decieve his perfect human Creations living there? 3. Wouldn't God have been able to foresee the inevitable necessity of casting many of his beloved human Creations into hell if they were decieved into following Satan? I don't understand this. First, satan is a perfect angel, and God was pleased with him as they worship God in heaven. Why such rebellion, Satan (or the snake) is envious and jealous of God's close relationship with Adam and Eve which led him to use and deceive them by saying that if they eat the fruit of the tree of life - they too will become like God well in fact he is actually talking about himself here. Because satan would like to be worshipped too like God. His ignorance of God really put him in a position as enemy of God eternally forever. In answer to your second question, there is no room for such rebellion in heaven. That's why God dethroned satan. It is telling us that if we rebel against God, he would not tolerate such rebellion. We will truly learned from our mistakes because God disciplines those he loves. Satan was cast down to earth to show that there is punishment from God if we disobey him. And also this serves as model to those who will continously rebel against God. A person who keeps on rebelling against God will not taste the beauty and loving presence of God. God is light and sin is darkness. God is holy and He can not stand sinfulness in his creation. When the first creation sinned against God, He did not leave us on ourselves. He provided us the way on how we can go back to God again and start our new life. Again, free will was given to man - he/she may use this choices in whatever he pleases. The result of that choices can be good or bad. Either to follow God or completely ignore God in his life. God already foresee that many people will be cast down to hell, again God created us with free will. That's why God uses every possible means to hinder man to suffer in hell. He gave Jesus for the salvation of the soul, he uses preachers, books, the Bible, people, situations, circumstances, visions, dreams and other means just to reach out to people and just how loving He is to his creations. As God gave us the free will to choose - He knows that many also will continously rebel like satan and will choose the way to hell. In Romans 3:23 All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. This was after the fall of man. And in Romans 6:23 says, For the wages of sin is death. But God's gift is eternal life thru Jesus Christ our Lord. So the first man and woman, sinned thru disobedience. But God also made the way, thru Jesus Christ for our salvation. He already knew that we cannot save ourselves, because God knew that we are weaklings and capable of mistakes and can be deceived like Adam and Eve. So God decided to reconcile us to Him through His Son's sacrificial death on the cross. If you can also visit www.spiritlessons.com about different testimonies who have gone to heaven and came back. I volunteer as a cd burner to distribute them worldwide - am representing Canada, fyi. You would really appreciate how loving our God is. elise7

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